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Question: What year will we achieve a new ATH?
2019 - 16 (33.3%)
2020 - 17 (35.4%)
2021 - 12 (25%)
2022 - 1 (2.1%)
2023 - 0 (0%)
Never - 2 (4.2%)
Total Voters: 48

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 21169128 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (23 posts by 12 users deleted.)
xhomerx10
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January 03, 2019, 02:47:48 PM
Last edit: January 03, 2019, 02:58:19 PM by xhomerx10

I think "Proof of Keys" is an unnecessary burden to the Bitcoin & exchange networks... I don't like the idea of shooting myself in the foot. I understand the idea of not letting exchanges use our coins in a fractional reserve setting, but I don't think it will make a difference for just one day... If they want to do it, they will, since they will always have some of our coins in their wallets. The good qualities of Bitcoin (decentralized, distributed, immutable, fungible, borderless, permissionless, rare, capped, non-inflationary), as compared to fiat, are guaranteed by its design, not by what exchanges do or don't do.

Why not do the opposite: withdraw all of our fiat from the banks! That would put a stress to their network...

 It would cause a lot of stress for nearly everyone since loans exceed savings by a very large margin.  In Canada, there is no reserve requirement so theoretically we have an indeterminate (possibly infinite) money supply based on the formula for money multiplier (m) given the Reserve requirement (R):

m=1/R

 That being said, I went into the bank a couple of years ago to withdraw more than I was able to withdraw in one day from an ATM (which is $2000) - seems to me I was looking to get around 6k.  First, they wanted to know why I needed "so much" money and if a bank draft or check wouldn't be a better option.  They chastised me for not calling ahead and I had to sit and wait for the money to be ready.  Oh, I was also required to withdraw my maximum from their ATM first (I don't pay a fee if I use theirs so that didn't bother me too much).  When the cashier called me back to the counter, she had a manila envelope she was digging her hand into that I could see had at least two wrapped stacks of $100 dollar bills.  I tried to keep the conversation light-hearted saying "You have plenty of cash there!  Why did you make me take money from the ATM?" and she told me they had been directed to discourage large cash withdrawals.
 Fast forward a couple of years to the present and just before Christmas I went to the same branch because it was on my route and I needed some cash.  While they still have people working inside, they don't do physical cash withdrawals.  The only option is to use their ATMs.  They have been popping up everywhere since about the middle of 2018 in this area and I believe one bank calls them "Advice-based Centers" where the bank employees are directed to show you how to use an ATM if you request cash and they don't have tellers anymore.

 So really, the only thing a bank run will cause is line-ups at the ATMS and stress for those with savings accounts.

::


Buy Bitcoin.


  

That queue is a cue to really go with the trend or the future of money. I may be a newbie with this industry but Bitcoin, blockchain and cryptocurrencies really has future to create massive change especially in finance, economy, government etc.,

Sorry, there are two queues actually.  I didn't provide enough separation.
  The left is in India and on the right, Greece.
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January 03, 2019, 02:58:07 PM

Happy 10th Birthday to Bitcoin! My baby booooy!

10 years later and still, not one person has been able to prove that Bitcoin has failed. 10 years later and we have the same people screaming "its a fad its a fad!" or "Bubble this tulips that!"

Typing out the number "10 years" kind of puts it in a bad light.  Things like Myspace were already born, conquered the world, then died off in a shorter time span, while bitcoin all in all has actually made very little impact on the world in that long timespan.  Yea, there's a lot of bullshit hype and news articles, but that's it.  The only thing it's really used for in the real world is pump and dump scams.
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January 03, 2019, 02:59:11 PM
Last edit: January 03, 2019, 03:16:48 PM by bitserve
Merited by vapourminer (1), xhomerx10 (1)

I think "Proof of Keys" is an unnecessary burden to the Bitcoin & exchange networks... I don't like the idea of shooting myself in the foot. I understand the idea of not letting exchanges use our coins in a fractional reserve setting, but I don't think it will make a difference for just one day... If they want to do it, they will, since they will always have some of our coins in their wallets. The good qualities of Bitcoin (decentralized, distributed, immutable, fungible, borderless, permissionless, rare, capped, non-inflationary), as compared to fiat, are guaranteed by its design, not by what exchanges do or don't do.

Why not do the opposite: withdraw all of our fiat from the banks! That would put a stress to their network...

 It would cause a lot of stress for nearly everyone since loans exceed savings by a very large margin.  In Canada, there is no reserve requirement so theoretically we have an indeterminate (possibly infinite) money supply based on the formula for money multiplier (m) given the Reserve requirement (R):

m=1/R

 That being said, I went into the bank a couple of years ago to withdraw more than I was able to withdraw in one day from an ATM (which is $2000) - seems to me I was looking to get around 6k.  First, they wanted to know why I needed "so much" money and if a bank draft or check wouldn't be a better option.  They chastised me for not calling ahead and I had to sit and wait for the money to be ready.  Oh, I was also required to withdraw my maximum from their ATM first (I don't pay a fee if I use theirs so that didn't bother me too much).  When the cashier called me back to the counter, she had a manila envelope she was digging her hand into that I could see had at least two wrapped stacks of $100 dollar bills.  I tried to keep the conversation light-hearted saying "You have plenty of cash there!  Why did you make me take money from the ATM?" and she told me they had been directed to discourage large cash withdrawals.
 Fast forward a couple of years to the present and just before Christmas I went to the same branch because it was on my route and I needed some cash.  While they still have people working inside, they don't do physical cash withdrawals.  The only option is to use their ATMs.  They have been popping up everywhere since about the middle of 2018 in this area and I believe one bank calls them "Advice-based Centers" where the bank employees are directed to show you how to use an ATM if you request cash and they don't have tellers anymore.

 So really, the only thing a bank run will cause is line-ups at the ATMS and stress for those with savings accounts.

Buy Bitcoin.


  

There are perfectly justified reasons why you need to call in advance to have them get ready your cash if the amount is above regular daily/weekly requirements.

The most they can do (depending on country laws or bank rules you signed) is that they require you to come with a security guard if the cash amount is above certain limits.

Other than that they should have it available for you in less than 48 hours since your request no matter if the amount is millions in cash. Of course you will be asked to explain your reason so that they can fill the mandatory paperwork for the regulators. And maybe you will also have to go to a main branch and not your usual one too.

But that doesn't matter anyways... as you say, they don't have enough cash (and I am not talking about notes, but liquidity) to cover even 10% of the saving accounts + deposit accounts.

What happens then if 20% of the amounts were to be withdrawn? Not much... the bank would loan the cash (usually from the central bank) to fullfil those requests. That's no problem because the bank have enough collateral to do it... if it reaches a point where it doesn't and is impossible to recover it is usually bought by another bank which absorbs its assets and obligations.

But... what happens if it is not a single bank but a country wide bank run?

Then the first clients will probably get all their cash out, but as soon as the requests escalate they do have to impose limits because the central bank is not able to balance the liquidity anymore. See Argentina, Greece, etc...

That's the "beauty" of fractional reserve banking and why we do not want to see anything like that in crypto.

There's not point in doing an exercise of "bank run" with banks, we already know what would happen because that is exactly how it is intended to work. But in crypto it should not happen anything and if it does it is a sign of fractional banking where there should be NONE.


P.S.: Oh, and there are reasons why reserve banking is good for the growth of the economy. In some way it could be considered a way of optimising available resources. The problem comes when you increase the debt levels irresponsibly and all the castle falls apart... and it also opens the door to creating money out of thin air that is not supported by real assets.
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January 03, 2019, 03:16:15 PM

I can not attach it to my profile, activity 98..., at the moment, I'm going to buy a frame, I'll hang it in my office. Cool

Thanks xhomerx10, is perfect, design, texture, background, beautiful, proud of this hat. Wink


FreedomCoin
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January 03, 2019, 03:18:05 PM

Happy birthday BTC, how far you have come.
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January 03, 2019, 03:18:53 PM

I can not attach it to my profile, activity 98..., at the moment, I'm going to buy a frame, I'll hang it in my office. Cool

Thanks Xhomerx10, is perfect, design, texture, background, beautiful, proud of this hat. Wink




 Wow.  I feel honoured Smiley
Thank you!

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January 03, 2019, 03:23:19 PM
Merited by The Pharmacist (3), xhomerx10 (1)

@bitserve

I agree with all your points and I'd like you to allow me to add two more point...

Even if there was no fractional reserve and even if all the peoples' money were really existing in banks, we'd have two more problems: security and "precision (?)".
1) The problem of security with cash is obvious, notes can be stolen and centralised digital accounts can be hacked. A successful 51% attack on a widely used blockchain though is not as easy.
2) I can't put a name on this problem but I'll give an example: A bank is holding 10% of a countries wealth in notes. An explosion scattering some in the air while destroys and burns others. What happens next? Do you print the notes again? Do you subtract the missing amount from the bank's own account? What about the notes that went flying? Similar problems in a much smaller scale happen every day, for example having a low value note cut in half or a coin drop in the sewers. I might interpret it wrong but I think that fiat currencies can't work with 0% fractional reserves and money printing, only the blockchain can work without these and still operate fine.


By the way, I'm from Greece, I've been through Capital Controls and we're still under some controls, for example we cannot top-up investment accounts with cards, only through the slow wire transfers.
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January 03, 2019, 03:27:48 PM

By the way, I'm from Greece, I've been through Capital Controls

The amount of dumb sluts begging for money on the internet is skyrocketing through the stratosphere and probably signals much bigger financial collapse and capital controls soon:

https://www.reddit.com/r/WhereAreAllTheGoodMen/comments/a9nqal/everywhere_i_look_i_see_these_tradthots_they/
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January 03, 2019, 03:43:29 PM

Let them talk, talk, talk..., warming up the engines. Roll Eyes

Cambridge Judge Business School



https://www.jbs.cam.ac.uk/faculty-research/centres/alternative-finance/publications/2nd-global-cryptoasset-benchmark-study/#.XC4sw1xKiUk
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January 03, 2019, 03:53:46 PM

Instead of Chartbuddy bumping it every hour, is engaging It the new sign of thread deadness?

It's just as mechanical and uncreative.


I want chartbuddy and Adam back..

 Embarrassed
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January 03, 2019, 03:53:47 PM

I love the download speeds nowadays, most stuff arrives in an instant. I remember when a mp3 took a week to download if you were lucky.
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January 03, 2019, 04:02:46 PM

Red flag!

HitBTC freezes customers accounts ahead of Proof of Keys Event...

https://www.ccn.com/bitcoin-exchange-hitbtc-freezes-customers-accounts-ahead-of-proof-of-keys-event/

HitBTC has been a scam since day one and has been warned about as well. It is connected to the Bytecoin Crew and has been shown to have fake volume. Anyone who puts money on an exchange and cannot be bothered to place a search with the term "Scam [insert exchange here}" deserves to lose their coins.
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January 03, 2019, 04:10:30 PM

Why do I get the feeling that something is up for later this afternoon.
Like an instant spike to the moon and back - or not.
Probably delusional. Haven't really made sense of the "proof of keys" thing. Always ambiguous when herd mentality comes in to play.

@r0achie I think you want to buy BTC in the dip, so that you can finally get that silver pressure cooker you've always wanted. Wink


I doubt proof of keys will come to anything. Anyone who cares already keeps their BTC off-exchange. And very few will pass up trading opportunities to move their funds to their own control anyway - assuming they even know how.

Well it already has if it makes just the threat of it force scam exchanges to show their hand lit hitbtc has done. Wink
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January 03, 2019, 04:12:54 PM

I think "Proof of Keys" is an unnecessary burden to the Bitcoin & exchange networks... I don't like the idea of shooting myself in the foot. I understand the idea of not letting exchanges use our coins in a fractional reserve setting, but I don't think it will make a difference for just one day... If they want to do it, they will, since they will always have some of our coins in their wallets. The good qualities of Bitcoin (decentralized, distributed, immutable, fungible, borderless, permissionless, rare, capped, non-inflationary), as compared to fiat, are guaranteed by its design, not by what exchanges do or don't do.

Why not do the opposite: withdraw all of our fiat from the banks! That would put a stress to their network...

I'm all for that but it would not make a difference as the Gov would socialize that event and cover with our money anyway under the "too bid to fail" umbrella.
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January 03, 2019, 04:22:38 PM

I can not attach it to my profile, activity 98..., at the moment, I'm going to buy a frame, I'll hang it in my office. Cool

Thanks xhomerx10, is perfect, design, texture, background, beautiful, proud of this hat. Wink




Hey VB, congrats on your 100+ merits and getting your hat exactly at the 10th Bitcoin anniversary!
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January 03, 2019, 04:24:59 PM

Bitcoin Adoption Gets Boost: Chapwood Index Asserts Actual U.S. Inflation 10 Percent.

Buy Bitcoin -No Joke-

Quote
Holding money in fiat can lead to severe losses of money long-term in the presence of inflation. At 2.5 percent per year, which is the average CPI, $100,000 stored in a bank account would be worth only $77,600 after 10 years. If the Chapwood Index is accurate and real inflation is around 10 percent, then that $100,000 in the bank would be worth $34,900 after 10 years.

These devastating long-term losses make saving money in fiat impossible, forcing people to work for the rest of their lives. Also saving money for a house would be practically impossible, forcing people to pay rent for the rest of their lives, which is much more costly than a mortgage.

To add insult to injury, CPI-based pay raises will lead to workers getting less and less purchasing power each year. This makes a perfect storm where people essentially become slaves and have no hope of making anything but the absolute minimum to survive if that. This inflation situation destroys the American Dream.

Holding money in Bitcoin instead of fiat in the bank may be a better choice, since it could give people the ability to buy houses and eventually retire, versus losing all of their savings from inflation and working like a slave while living in increasing poverty due to wages not keeping up with inflation. In Venezuela, hyperinflation has already become a harsh reality, and people are choosing cryptocurrency over fiat to protect the value of their money.

https://cryptoiq.co/bitcoin-adoption-gets-boost-chapwood-index-asserts-actual-u-s-inflation-10-percent/
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January 03, 2019, 04:34:32 PM



30m
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January 03, 2019, 04:35:39 PM

BTC better pump on its anniversary .... common, give us Some green
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January 03, 2019, 04:46:29 PM

In the photo of The Times at the bottom there is a Hash of the block 554,509



Thanks, Satoshi. We owe you one.

Happy 10th birthday, Bitcoin

Hash:

000000000000000000037e741045a99121918e6ee717108fc77ec40b7419a829

“ThanksSatoshi” is included in the Coinbase input.

CoinBase
030d7608040b771a5c2f205468616e6b735361746f736869202f4254432e434f4d2ffabe6d6d2ce fdddb4341345a5f494751a87e59567f4ddc88488dfff0df7bfc7cf57c0f22010000000000000042 14622919ba000000000000
(decodificado)  v w\/ ThanksSatoshi /BTC.COM/��mm,���CA4Z_IGQ�~YVM܈H����{�|�|"Bb)�

https://www.blockchain.com/btc/tx/bd9d5c05d4f5e7256160f27a55678c3b8f0c38914c20c471b87832f46576c9a1?show_adv=true
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January 03, 2019, 04:46:37 PM

Here’s the thing.  If you keep pumping a shitcoin run by a money launderer and a con man, but you won’t even commit to that shitcoin, then you will justifiably be called out as a hypocrite and shill each time you raise the issue. 

Unless you're running your entire life free of fiat, you've got no room to spout off.
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