Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[HairyMaclairy]

Find me a MW coin without dev penalty, that is decentralized and hasn’t fucked up the economics, and you will have my attention

[serveria.com]

1.  It has a massive target in the form of a centralized dev team - same as Ethereum.   This is a very easy target for governments to crack.  

2. Network effect is close to zero

3.  The dev penalty is widely known and contrary to cypherpunk principles. Hence no buyers of last resort.  It can easily run to zero and stay there.  

4. ASIC resilience is a scam.

It has one thing going for it, they capped supply unlike Grin. Grin team fucked up the economics, same mistake as Monero.

1- I agree, development was designed to be centralized for the first year to allow for quicker progress (compare it to Grin or Monero for example), Ethereum and Zcash have the same model but Beam will change that by handing it to a foundation (same like the one Bitcoin had early days), but honestly if you think about it even the Bitcoin core write access is mostly held by Blockstream employees so...
2- Network effect works as long as the tech evolves, IBM had the network effect at some point as well, not denying Bitcoin's Network effect but I don't think this is a zero-sum game, don't forget that Beam was the first MW implementation, and it offers the best privacy/scaling right now.
3- Dev tax is priced in, I see the dev tax the same way I see the coinbase reward miners collect, we don't expect miners to throw free power thus we shouldn't expect devs to work for free, and you are so wrong about the cypherpunk principals, free means freedom and not slavery. also, what about the 1M BTC Satoshi owns? is it fair if he would be able to spend it one day?
4- Nothing is Asic resilient and the plan is not to be ASIC resistant, but switching PoW every 6 moths ruin any plans for any ASIC R&D thus making the distribution somewhat better the first year.

Nice discussion guys but I suggest you move over to Beam discussion thread. I bet 99.9% of members here are not interested in any Beams-shmeams.  

[600watt]

Find me a MW coin without dev penalty, that is decentralized and hasn’t fucked up the economics, and you will have my attention

Are people still fucking drooling over Mumble Wimble grin shit? I never understood why everyone had such a boner over it, no hardware wallet support, no gui wallet, pain to fucking actually use the damn thing.

"use" and "altcoin" do not go together.    

[HairyMaclairy]

It’s an interesting idea.  But right now all of the implementations are fatally flawed.  Execution matters.

Long live the King

[JayJuanGee]

wow, this forum has gone downhill! no mods nowadays or what?

You are a fucking diptwat.

Last I heard from you was that you sold all your coins in the $600s in the 2014 time frame, and you were living happily ever after because bitcoin was going to go to zero (for sure).. and you knew it and you were smarter than the rest of us... blah blah blah.  You said a bunch of other dumbshit too, including that you weren't going to be coming back, except to tell us how dumb we were and to rub bitcoin in our face, yet for some strange reason bitocin is far exceeding 16x from the prices that you sold...

I can't imagine that you are actually smart about something, and I imagine you are coming back to tell us how wonderful your life is because you cashed out dollars - even though you could have been at least 16x more prosperous if you had hung onto your bitcoins.  Anyhow, whatever supposed smartness that you have is merely in your imaginary fantasy thinking rather than based on reality.

TLDR:  So what the fuck would you know about either bitcoin or this forum?

Go ahead point me to where I said that? I have called every bottom and top since 2012, and I have been working full time on Crypto related projects as a developer since 2014.

while you are still wasting your life arguing your nonsense on this thread...some people never change.

Oh... so you come back to tell us how smart you were including that posting on this thread is "wasting life?", and how you made a lot of money, too?

Perhaps your braggadocios presentation is part of the issue?

[mmitech]

wow, this forum has gone downhill! no mods nowadays or what?

You are a fucking diptwat.

Last I heard from you was that you sold all your coins in the $600s in the 2014 time frame, and you were living happily ever after because bitcoin was going to go to zero (for sure).. and you knew it and you were smarter than the rest of us... blah blah blah.  You said a bunch of other dumbshit too, including that you weren't going to be coming back, except to tell us how dumb we were and to rub bitcoin in our face, yet for some strange reason bitocin is far exceeding 16x from the prices that you sold...

I can't imagine that you are actually smart about something, and I imagine you are coming back to tell us how wonderful your life is because you cashed out dollars - even though you could have been at least 16x more prosperous if you had hung onto your bitcoins.  Anyhow, whatever supposed smartness that you have is merely in your imaginary fantasy thinking rather than based on reality.

TLDR:  So what the fuck would you know about either bitcoin or this forum?

Go ahead point me to where I said that? I have called every bottom and top since 2012, and I have been working full time on Crypto related projects as a developer since 2014.

while you are still wasting your life arguing your nonsense on this thread...some people never change.

Oh... so you come back to tell us how smart you were including that posting on this thread is "wasting life?", and how you made a lot of money, too?

Perhaps your braggadocios presentation is part of the issue?

Exactly as I remember you, there has been no value from reading your posts and there is still no value... the dogs bark but the caravan moves on.

you are going into my ignore goodbye.

[JayJuanGee]

wow, this forum has gone downhill! no mods nowadays or what?

You are a fucking diptwat.

Last I heard from you was that you sold all your coins in the $600s in the 2014 time frame, and you were living happily ever after because bitcoin was going to go to zero (for sure).. and you knew it and you were smarter than the rest of us... blah blah blah.  You said a bunch of other dumbshit too, including that you weren't going to be coming back, except to tell us how dumb we were and to rub bitcoin in our face, yet for some strange reason bitocin is far exceeding 16x from the prices that you sold...

I can't imagine that you are actually smart about something, and I imagine you are coming back to tell us how wonderful your life is because you cashed out dollars - even though you could have been at least 16x more prosperous if you had hung onto your bitcoins.  Anyhow, whatever supposed smartness that you have is merely in your imaginary fantasy thinking rather than based on reality.

TLDR:  So what the fuck would you know about either bitcoin or this forum?

Go ahead point me to where I said that? I have called every bottom and top since 2012, and I have been working full time on Crypto related projects as a developer since 2014.

while you are still wasting your life arguing your nonsense on this thread...some people never change.

Oh... so you come back to tell us how smart you were including that posting on this thread is "wasting life?", and how you made a lot of money, too?

Perhaps your braggadocios presentation is part of the issue?

Exactly as I remember you, there has been no value from reading your posts and there is still no value... the dogs bark but the caravan moves on.

you are going into my ignore goodbye.

For sure, putting me into "ignore" is going to solve all issues, and currently instead of being on bitcoin bashing, you have turned into altcoin pumpening.   

But of course, you have remained smarter than the rest of us, so I suppose that is something that you kind of have going for you.

Beam

Wat?

Everything you said and you'll ever say in the future has lost its credibility the moment you mentioned beam.

Beam the shitcoin, the taxcoin you pay its devs from your mining income.

So you (d)evolved into a shitcoiner in the end after all those years, sad.

go ahead define What makes a shitcoin a shitcoin?

The dev tax is necessary and priced in, not sure why do people expect devs to slave for free, not to mention that this way incentives are aligned, I don't want to see a scenario where devs have to beg for donations to be able to work full time on a project, and no in Bitcoin all high profile devs are paid for by companies like blockstream, and the whole satoshi stash (~ 1M BTC) is just a huge fucking dev fee with an unknown fate, In fact, I feel much safer with the dev tax model since I know a huge deal of it will be re-invested in R&D
 
People seem to misunderstand the whole open-source Free software motto, Free means freedom in this sense and not choosing beggar heaven where investors get rich while devs slaves for free.

But again, like anytime I said anything and got shit for it, let the days be our judge.

Yes, I am not a fucking maximalist, I am tech agnostic, I don't belong to a cult. I follow tech and when the tech stagnate I continue my journey looking for a better one

Bitcoin's tech is stagnating? Currently?  Or in 2014?

[vroom]

beam me up satoshi

[nutildah]

Beam has all of that...

Right, thanks for your audition. Don't call us, we'll call you.

FWIW I agree with you that the thread needs more moderation, but I have resigned to the flow of things rather than trying to fight it.

[JayJuanGee]

wow, this forum has gone downhill! no mods nowadays or what?

You are a fucking diptwat.

Last I heard from you was that you sold all your coins in the $600s in the 2014 time frame, and you were living happily ever after because bitcoin was going to go to zero (for sure).. and you knew it and you were smarter than the rest of us... blah blah blah.  You said a bunch of other dumbshit too, including that you weren't going to be coming back, except to tell us how dumb we were and to rub bitcoin in our face, yet for some strange reason bitocin is far exceeding 16x from the prices that you sold...

I can't imagine that you are actually smart about something, and I imagine you are coming back to tell us how wonderful your life is because you cashed out dollars

TLDR:  So what the fuck would you know about either bitcoin or this forum?

If thats so Then “insert Will ferrell gif.... what a loser”

He probably listen to r0ach same-ish price cash out

Probably most of the problem with mmitech has been that he has had a tendency (and it appears that he still does) to brag about how much smarter that he is as compared with others.  If he took the bragging part out, then maybe that would help.  It is true that selling at $600 in mid 2014 would surely have been profitable for a decent amount of time and even an ability to buy back lower at any time in 2015 or even into mid 2016 and still have been profitable.   

I am not completely sure if we could rely on mmitech's braggadocios representations about what he supposedly did after the fact, but it could have been possible that he could have profited from that $600 trade.  So, maybe that is consistent with his getting involved in other projects, but he did say that he was going on a 2 year vacation, so I guess his definition of "vacation" is getting involved in other crypto projects?  Some of these may or may not be important, just shows that he has been a bit of a bragger and bitcoin basher.

[mindrust]

3- Dev tax is priced in, I see the dev tax the same way I see the coinbase reward miners collect, we don't expect miners to throw free pow...

You say it is priced in. That's subjective. Even if it is, It doesn't change the fact that you still pay taxes to the devs. Being priced in or not doesn't change that. BEAM is flawed from its core. It is a taxcoin. No matter how many times you say it is already priced in, won't change this simple fact. TAXCOIN.

we shouldn't expect devs to work for free, and you are so wrong about the cypherpunk principals, free means freedom and not slavery. also, what about the 1M BTC Satoshi owns? is it fair if he would be able to spend it one day?

Satoshi's coins are different. He didn't even know if they were going to have any value. That's why Bitcoin is special and shitcoin are not. Shitcoins are always driven by greed that's why they always collapse sooner ot later.

See... Like I said, BEAM is just another shitcoin screaming, make us rich. Go away already.

[Febo]

Grin team fucked up the economics, same mistake as Monero.

Monero supply schedule is really good almost perfect. Somehow is misunderstood by some.  Right now Monero stock to flow is 26 while Bitcoins is 27.2, while Gold is around 60.  This looks quite similar to me. But in next 10 years Monero stock to flow ratio will increase faster then Bitcoins. And in a year it will be way higher then of the Gold one forever.  But it will never get to high to make us worry.

[mmitech]

Sorry if you understood me the wrong way, I am not trying to sell you anything, I did mention how I am diversifying my portfolio this time and why.

I argued the mere fact that Beam is not a shitcoin after someone mentioned that it was. Happy speculation, I will probably check in after another 3 years.

[Febo]

I argued the mere fact that Beam is not a shitcoin after someone mentioned that it was. Happy speculation, I will probably check in after another 3 years.

No one will use company/foundation/corporation/country/whatever owned coins. Specially with alternatives they have.

[Findingnemo]

I argued the mere fact that Beam is not a shitcoin after someone mentioned that it was. Happy speculation, I will probably check in after another 3 years.

No one will use company/foundation/corporation/country/whatever owned coins. Specially with alternatives they have.

Sadly many people not aware of what centralized cryptos and decentralized cryptos which made the ripple to take the place on marketcap value and continue to hold until now.

Hopefully people will avoid these kind of coins.

[El duderino_]

Slap yourself,

if you sold $BTC under $10,000.

https://twitter.com/cz_binance/status/1157075839495761920

Price of BTC to be 8K end of august.

[Globb0]

same mistake as Monero.

Wrong a tiny tail emission that supports mining is not infinite coins.

[nutildah]

No one will use company/foundation/corporation/country/whatever owned coins. Specially with alternatives they have.

Data show otherwise, Beam average number of transactions daily is much more than Monero and definitely more than Zcash and Grin combined and it is growing daily, again I am not trying to convince you anything, just get your facts straight.

So you are equating daily transactions with real-world adoption. What is this, amateur hour?

Someone asked me how come an OG like me is into altcoins, the truth is that I joined this space for 2 things: interesting tech and making profits, and after 7 years I am still looking at all kinds of tech and trying to make a living off it at the same time, so all I can say to you guys is don't be stuck in that echo chamber of maximalism, be a minimalist on maximalism because it is becoming a cult.

It has nothing to do with that. We (for the most part) adhere to a strict principle to avoid petty arguments like the one you want to have right now: there is bitcoin and then there are shitcoins. There's no middle ground. There is BTC and then there are shitcoins. Given the extremely slow rate of adoption of cryptocurrency, I think this is a fair approach. Hundreds of coins have merits not necessarily shared by others, and can be argued to be of potential widespread use someday.

However, saturating the public with a flood of coins only leads to misunderstanding and skepticism. Ergo, we should concentrate on bringing bitcoin more into the mainstream first, increasing use case scenarios, adoption, etc., and once BTC has broken free from being largely speculative financial instrument, then altcoins can find their niches and be of true value to society. Right now, outside of an arguable handful of them, they are not.

Ask yourself what is the goal behind your involvement in this space, then be agnostic about it.

Frankly my main goal is sussing out liars and charlatans as I happen to find it a fun hobby. I'm not saying you're either, you just have a lot to learn. I make a 100% living off cryptocurrency, but not in the way you hope to.

[_javi_]

https://twitter.com/Bitstamp/status/1157274852379770881

i said that 3 days ago..
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336.msg52030309#msg52030309

Bitstamp, stop stealing my ideas!


btw, nice sunday green candles!!

[jojo69]

How long do I need to watch it for?

you'll know