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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26336956 times)
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ChartBuddy
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November 16, 2022, 07:01:17 PM


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Hueristic
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November 16, 2022, 07:20:05 PM

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Chief Executive Officer Derar Islim admitted that withdrawal requests exceeded current liquidity at Genesis Global Capital, the lending arm; but made it clear that Genesis's spot and derivatives trading and custody businesses “remain fully operational.”


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The contagion of Genesis lending issues has already hit one large firm, as Gemini Trust Co., the cryptocurrency platform run by the Winklevoss brothers, has halted withdrawals from its Earn program:

Nice word selection there.

Doesn't say anything about being solvent.
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November 16, 2022, 07:31:11 PM
Merited by vapourminer (1), JayJuanGee (1)

I tried logging into my Gemini account, and it is "temporarily grounded" at the moment...  Looks like it has been down for about an hour so far, so it is not anything to get overly worried about, yet...  Hopefully, Gemini has NOT overly gambled with their client's funds too.....even if they may well have lost a lot of funds that were in such "earn" product.  So many folks believe that they need to "earn yield" on their coins.. which seems to be a slippery slope into shenanigans.. even tough we likely know that there should also be legitimate ways to "earn" so long as the "earning" is actually put into some product that is actually something other than a ponzi scheme and has actual collateral backing it up.

On paper, Gemini Earn appears to be a relatively simplistic lending program:

Quote
Gemini Earn is a lending program through which you may choose to lend your crypto to certain institutional borrowers and earn interest on your crypto.

At least based on the APYs (for example BTC 2.5%), it's not screaming ponzi, but ultimately how it actually functions under the hood is a different story... This probably isn't the real issue right now though.

The real question will be whether Gemini itself can deal with the withdrawal demand that comes it's way, this is what I'd trust a lot less right now. Given Gemini considered Genesis "trustworthy" and "audited" when they filed a claim against 3AC for $1.2B for loan defaulting months ago, should have screamed red flags. The fact they had $175 million effectively lost in FTX becomes much less relevant given that since July it looks like they had a big hole in their balance sheet - at least that's how it looks at a glance. Gemini not considering this an issue to terminate their partnership with them shows real poor oversight. So while there's apparently going to be 5 day delay for the Earn-based withdrawals - which I can actually believe as you can't just liquidate institutional borrowers overnight, but otherwise the loans could well be collateralised  - the real question remains whether Gemini itself has the liquidity to deal with the bank run coming it's way. While everyone was looking at Kucoin and Crypto.com, it seems obvious now why Gemini could soon fall.

PS - Bare in mind FTX.US was also "completely unaffected" by FTX Int. going bankrupt, for about 24 hours at least  Roll Eyes
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November 16, 2022, 07:32:12 PM
Merited by Hueristic (1), HI-TEC99 (1)

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Chief Executive Officer Derar Islim admitted that withdrawal requests exceeded current liquidity at Genesis Global Capital, the lending arm; but made it clear that Genesis's spot and derivatives trading and custody businesses “remain fully operational.”


Quote
The contagion of Genesis lending issues has already hit one large firm, as Gemini Trust Co., the cryptocurrency platform run by the Winklevoss brothers, has halted withdrawals from its Earn program:

Nice word selection there.

Doesn't say anything about being solvent.

 If you don't let customers make withdrawals you can't be insolvent.gif
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November 16, 2022, 08:01:16 PM


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Biodom
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November 16, 2022, 08:02:49 PM

Wow...Gemini?
BTW, it seems that partial paralysis of exchanges is limiting the downside a bit.
Perhaps, less people are sending coins to exchanges to sell right now since they could get stuck.
I am waiting for a couple of weeks even to do a stable coin/$ exchange.
My money is on Kraken and Coinbase to not get stuck, but some patience is needed albeit my last $ withdrawal from Coinbase was done in 2-3 bd.
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November 16, 2022, 08:06:04 PM
Merited by Hueristic (1), strawbs (1)

As one of this Wall Observer's resident Monero degens I feel it is my duty as a fellow Bitcoin Maxi (I know...I thought that sentence up for Jay particularly as well as it being true) to remind you all:

There is no better time than the present to stage some sort of fantastic boating accident.

I mean... LOTTA ships sinking out there.  Maybe one of them was holding all your corns?

Say no more?

(I kid...I kid FEDARALES! I have personally had no boating accidents, nor do I own any Bitcoin (and certainly not Monero)).
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November 16, 2022, 08:19:38 PM

As one of this Wall Observer's resident Monero degens I feel it is my duty as a fellow Bitcoin Maxi (I know...I thought that sentence up for Jay particularly as well as it being true) to remind you all:

There is no better time than the present to stage some sort of fantastic boating accident.

I mean... LOTTA ships sinking out there.  Maybe one of them was holding all your corns?

Say no more?

(I kid...I kid FEDARALES! I have personally had no boating accidents, nor do I own any Bitcoin (and certainly not Monero)).

The unfortunate part of it is that while your property is impaired (say, stuck on a bankrupt exchange), you cannot take a loss (against your gains or $3000 loss against other income per year in US) until all legal proceedings are completed...or at least it is my current knowledge of that situation.
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November 16, 2022, 08:20:12 PM



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I think in all fairness, I should explain to you exactly what it is that I do. For instance tomorrow morning I'll get up nice and early, take a walk down over to your exchange office and... walk in and see and, uh... if you don't have my Bitcoin for me, I'll... crack your fuckin' head wide-open in front of everybody in the office. And just about the time that I'm comin' out of jail, hopefully, you'll be coming out of your coma. And guess what? I'll split your fuckin' head open again. 'Cause I'm fuckin' stupid. I don't give a fuck about jail. That's my business. That's what I do.

  Smiley
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O619UrR8v1Y
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November 16, 2022, 08:30:15 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)

As one of this Wall Observer's resident Monero degens I feel it is my duty as a fellow Bitcoin Maxi (I know...I thought that sentence up for Jay particularly as well as it being true) to remind you all:

There is no better time than the present to stage some sort of fantastic boating accident.

I mean... LOTTA ships sinking out there.  Maybe one of them was holding all your corns?

Say no more?

(I kid...I kid FEDARALES! I have personally had no boating accidents, nor do I own any Bitcoin (and certainly not Monero)).

The unfortunate part of it is that while your property is impaired (say, stuck on a bankrupt exchange), you cannot take a loss (against your gains or $3000 loss against other income per year in US) until all legal proceedings are completed...or at least it is my current knowledge of that situation.

Wow.. so basically:

Not you boat, not your accident.

But in all seriousness that does suck.

edit: but in all, all seriousness...  I do not mean to be coming on too strong with the dark humor.  A LOT of people are getting hurt by this damn thing.  And almost none of them deserve it. certainly no one I know here...

One reason I felt OK about joking around is we all have our shit backed up in cold storage, right?

Maybe not.  In which case... no harm intended.   I took some pretty big hits this year myself... robbed by the medical system I work for lol.
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November 16, 2022, 09:01:20 PM


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ChartBuddy
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November 16, 2022, 10:01:19 PM


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November 16, 2022, 10:20:00 PM
Merited by BobLawblaw (10)

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Chief Executive Officer Derar Islim admitted that withdrawal requests exceeded current liquidity at Genesis Global Capital, the lending arm; but made it clear that Genesis's spot and derivatives trading and custody businesses “remain fully operational.”


Quote
The contagion of Genesis lending issues has already hit one large firm, as Gemini Trust Co., the cryptocurrency platform run by the Winklevoss brothers, has halted withdrawals from its Earn program:

Nice word selection there.

Doesn't say anything about being solvent.

 If you don't let customers make withdrawals you can't be insolvent.gif


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November 16, 2022, 10:45:42 PM
Merited by xhomerx10 (1), Hueristic (1), JayJuanGee (1)

Well accepting shitcoins as collateral for loans no matter the % collateralized was dumb as fuck in the first place, but noooooooobody cared

Bull bitcoin does it right : https://www.bullbitcoin.com/blog/why-bull-bitcoin-is-immune-from-ftx-collapse-and-crypto-contagion
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November 16, 2022, 10:56:06 PM
Merited by cAPSLOCK (3), xhomerx10 (1), JayJuanGee (1)



 If you don't let customers make withdrawals you can't be insolvent.gif



There is no better time than the present to stage some sort of fantastic boating accident.



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November 16, 2022, 10:59:38 PM

Dreaming of riches
Rain and thunder I withstand
Get to one million



#haiku
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November 16, 2022, 11:01:16 PM


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Hueristic
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November 16, 2022, 11:07:18 PM

Well accepting shitcoins as collateral for loans no matter the % collateralized was dumb as fuck in the first place, but noooooooobody cared

Bull bitcoin does it right : https://www.bullbitcoin.com/blog/why-bull-bitcoin-is-immune-from-ftx-collapse-and-crypto-contagion


Quote
Many crypto exchanges and service providers were trusting FTX with their users’ money, causing users who had no business with FTX to lose money as well.


The entire reason bitcoin exists is to remove trust yet every scum sucking scammer out there tries to weasel around this fact.

Then every low brow in the world that says they understand bitcoin (they be crypto bro)  cry like little girls when what they ignored as a fact turns out to be true.


I have ZERO pity for the fools that haven't been listening to what satoshi tried to teach them.
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November 16, 2022, 11:14:51 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)

Here is an interesting piece from J. Lopp regarding "real" vs "paper" bitcoins:
https://blog.keys.casa/securing-bitcoins-scarcity/

TL;DR loans through multisig as a suggested solution plus a "physical" ETF.
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November 16, 2022, 11:29:37 PM
Last edit: November 17, 2022, 12:04:14 AM by Hueristic
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)

Here is an interesting piece from J. Lopp regarding "real" vs "paper" bitcoins:
https://blog.keys.casa/securing-bitcoins-scarcity/

TL;DR loans through multisig as a suggested solution plus a "physical" ETF.

Nice to see Lopp  put in the effort to spell out what people have been too lazy to ferret out for themselves.


Here is an older good read.

https://super-crypto1.medium.com/4th-dimension-bitcoin-manipulation-cartel-can-it-be-burnt-no-way-c53de65c166a
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