Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[El duderino_]

I was thinking about the following hypothetical the other day:

Let's assume that bitcoin goes to 100-300K (let's say, 200K average) this cycle and somewhere along the line you sell a substantial % to invest in property, luxuries, etc ( whichever you choose).
In 10 years afterwards, bitcoin goes to 5 mil, which means that you only "captured" just 4% of the potential value.

How would you feel about it? I guess, it would also depend on the remainder (that you didn't sell), but still.

Personally, I know that years later, I am not particularly fond of my decisions to sell AMZN, AAPL and TSLA early, even though I made very nice gains on them.
Sometimes, I consider these occurancies as my investment follies, but, again, you cannot be 100% efficient.

Of course, it is possible to NEVER sell btc and, basically, put this decision on the shoulders of descendants, but you cannot guarantee that they would be wise about it, right?
At least, I can't.

At some point, I would have to start to spend btc and this point is coming relatively soon.
Alas, to spend even a relatively small amount of btc on things like kitchen remodeling causes a bit of mixed feelings on my part as I contemplate the scenarios described above.
That could be one expensive kitchen 5-10 years down the road.
Withdrawals from IRA are taxable and I put all my stables back into the market during 2023.
I would probably do a mix of "things", but don't want to take on HELOC or anything like this.
Decisions, decisions...

Read/listen to the book 'Die with Zero' - Bill Perkins. Working for money (or in our case, waiting for Bitcoin to go up) is a trade-off against your only real asset your life time.
Memories and experiences you have earlier in your life have greater value than the ones you have later because of the benefits they give after you have had them. Sharing and using, wisdom and memories both have significant value to your overall life happiness. (I think travel experiences often give great returns.).

Think about your grandparents, as you grow older, you will end up wanting less and are happy to stay at home, in fact, health issues mean you probably can't travel easily anymore, and this is when those earlier 'experience' investments in your life reach maturity.  Bizarrely,  living in the moment is an investment in your future. So the earlier you have these experiences the greater the return.
Dying with zero doesn't mean forgetting about looking after dependents or risking running out of money, but it helped me think about getting the correct balance between living in the moment and thinking longer term.

In the case of Bitcoin,  for me it was about setting very ambitious objectives about the things I wanted (property, cars etc, but whatever is reasonable to you with your current BTC holding) , and when Bitcoin was at a sufficient price,  and I would still have at least 50% of my BTC remaining, I pulled the trigger. (actually, my trigger price was $42k, in the last bull cycle, and I part-exited at $55K, and paid all the tax due.)
But I always live by, "Never have no Bitcoin."

Fully understand that.... when younger and more able to do certain things, never only think about the money or the future more value an asset can reach...

if you have a certain amount which will e significant anyway, take some early and keep livig the way you like to. Make great memories, do epic stuff.
Also spening on what is a personal issue. Maybe very strange but some people don't like to travel to much but love gadgets more.... if thats the case certainly np, get some stuffs ... But for me its about the doing things and exploring places nonetheless I like to do them on my terms.
Bitcoin most of all learns us not to be to greedy and start learning what matters as well ofc if hodling all of my previous coins I would have more coins/FIAT value today, but then I wasn't living where I live and didn't see the places I have been to with some of the people I like etc... wouldn't change a lot if I could go back.

BTW long time, good to read you.

[1714585551]

1714585551

[El duderino_]

73k in one hour  

Lets take a closer look this coming hour...

[bct_ail]

Hongkong is in the process of launching a Bitcoin-Spot-ETF.

Hongkong was touted in the media last year as the new Crypto-Hub. Now they will probably be the second continent with a Bitcoin-Spot-ETF.
And what about Europe?  ......in 5 Years, maybe..........or........10?

https://cryptorank.io/news/feed/94129-hong-kong-set-to-introduce-bitcoin-etfs

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com

[Gachapin]

I was thinking about the following hypothetical the other day:

Let's assume that bitcoin goes to 100-300K (let's say, 200K average) this cycle and somewhere along the line you sell a substantial % to invest in property, luxuries, etc ( whichever you choose).
In 10 years afterwards, bitcoin goes to 5 mil, which means that you only "captured" just 4% of the potential value.

How would you feel about it? I guess, it would also depend on the remainder (that you didn't sell), but still.

Personally, I know that years later, I am not particularly fond of my decisions to sell AMZN, AAPL and TSLA early, even though I made very nice gains on them.
Sometimes, I consider these occurancies as my investment follies, but, again, you cannot be 100% efficient.

Of course, it is possible to NEVER sell btc and, basically, put this decision on the shoulders of descendants, but you cannot guarantee that they would be wise about it, right?
At least, I can't.

At some point, I would have to start to spend btc and this point is coming relatively soon.
Alas, to spend even a relatively small amount of btc on things like kitchen remodeling causes a bit of mixed feelings on my part as I contemplate the scenarios described above.
That could be one expensive kitchen 5-10 years down the road.
Withdrawals from IRA are taxable and I put all my stables back into the market during 2023.
I would probably do a mix of "things", but don't want to take on HELOC or anything like this.
Decisions, decisions...

Borrow against your bitcoin, no capital gains tax either. That is how rich people do it I am reading. Now I would not trust some random new startup to facilitate this but fine against IBIT in your brokerage account.

sounds like a not-your-keys-not-your-coins situation to me...

What, you selling your corn including covering for CGT?

Well, I think that's exactly the thing. I have corn, you have an IOU (ETF).

And do you think it's possible to go from real BTC into an ETF without selling BTC first? I suppose you'll have to pay CGT there too right?


That being said I actually might consider risking part of my stash for a never ending credit... as long BTC goes up forever... Laura  

No you don't have bitcoin when you sell it for dollars. And you would have to sell more of it to cover for taxes. Borrowing against your assets is how rich people do it, you do you as with your previous sales of AMZN, AAPL and TSLA.

Since we are into the subject of IOU's you seem to dislike, can you explain what a dollar is?

I think you mistake me for Biodom. I have never sold any "AMZN, AAPL and TSLA"
I even said I'd consider using a small part of my stash to get repeating credit.


But let's play this through...

1)
As you have the credit running (which is lifetime in the "rich" people's game) you'd have to be lifetime in a not-your-keys-not-your-coins situation in order to provide collateral.

2)
The NYKNYC situation even intensifies, because you probably have to over-collateralize because of BTC volatility. For example, to get a 2M$ credit you may need to post 8M$ in BTC or even more. Means when I sell 2M you have 8M in limbo..

3)
We have seen many rug pulls in BTC (collapsing exchanges, lenders etc.). What happens in that case? You have to pay back your credit and worse you have lost x-times the collateral..  in our example, I sold 2M you lost 8M+....

So let's say I'm hesitant. But again, I'd consider a small amount.
 

Basically, I think BTC is built so that you can self custody, and that is what you should do as a private person. It's built as a "number goes up" thing, enough so that you don't have to borrow against it and can live from it by selling bit by bit. Ask Bob.

And you would have to sell more of it to cover for taxes.

again, it's the same when selling BTC for IBIT.

[BitcoinBunny]

Will this erection last I wonder?




Good to see the price of BTC going up also.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com

[Lucius]

Hongkong is in the process of launching a Bitcoin-Spot-ETF.

Hongkong was touted in the media last year as the new Crypto-Hub. Now they will probably be the second continent with a Bitcoin-Spot-ETF.
And what about Europe?  ......in 5 Years, maybe..........or........10?

https://cryptorank.io/news/feed/94129-hong-kong-set-to-introduce-bitcoin-etfs

As far as I know, Europe has its own BTC ETF, and it was approved much earlier than the one in the US, and I think South America had its spot ETF before the US too (Brazil).

The Jacobi FT Wilshere Bitcoin ETF is regulated by the Guernsey Financial Services Commission (GFSC) and will trade under the ticker "BCOIN."
The listing means Europe will see a spot bitcoin ETF traded before the U.S., despite dozens of applications to the Securities and Exchange Commission in the last few years.
London-based Jacobi Asset Management has listed Europe's first spot bitcoin exchange-traded fund (ETF) on Euronext Amsterdam nearly two years after it was first approved.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com

[bitebits]

I think you mistake me for Biodom. I have never sold any "AMZN, AAPL and TSLA"

[edited out]

Not sure how you still got that part since I realized the mix-up and removed it shortly after posting, while your response is 1.5 hours later. But it proves my point whether it is you, Biodom or anyone else selling assets for dollars.

Anyway, it is up to each individual. And I get the restraint putting real bitcoins as collateral. However with bitcoin ETF's like IBIT/FBTC we have now entered legacy finance in which it is common practice for many decades, severely reducing risk of getting rug pulled IMHO.

[aesma]

About selling BTC "high" then 10 years later it was low after all, one way to mitigate this is to play with BTC's volatility and sell more than what you need, keeping half of the fiat to buy back lower.

But clearly don't sell big amounts relative to your stash unless it's life and death I'd say. Luxuries are for when you're rich.

[OutOfMemory]

I know this post is late but just returned from my excursion
to totality land. The internet was very spotty up there, so didn’t bother
posting till now back home.
This was using a Canon on a tripod.
The real experience is the moment of totality when one takes off the
eclipse shades and sees it in all it’s glory. 4 minutes of mind numbing awesomeness. Hard to put to words.
 We cranked up the “2001 A Space Oddessy” opening theme at
the moment of totality. (“turn it up louder bro!!”)  I even got weirdly emotional.
F**king absolutely amazing life experience.



GO BITCOIN

Great stuff right there!
Once-in-a-lifetime-experience (just like Bitcoin)
Next time (LOL) you got to turn down the exposure for an even more awesome ecliptic shot.
But the photo is as good as a trigger for remembering the experience, anytime.

I'm OOM (Out Of Merit), so have +1 WOsMerit from me, at least!

Tip: Google on explanations for solar eclipse by flat earthers, if you need some good laughs 

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com

[philipma1957]

I know this post is late but just returned from my excursion
to totality land. The internet was very spotty up there, so didn’t bother
posting till now back home.
This was using a Canon on a tripod.
The real experience is the moment of totality when one takes off the
eclipse shades and sees it in all it’s glory. 4 minutes of mind numbing awesomeness. Hard to put to words.
 We cranked up the “2001 A Space Oddessy” opening theme at
the moment of totality. (“turn it up louder bro!!”)  I even got weirdly emotional.
F**king absolutely amazing life experience.



GO BITCOIN

Great stuff right there!
Once-in-a-lifetime-experience (just like Bitcoin)
Next time (LOL) you got to turn down the exposure for an even more awesome ecliptic shot.
But the photo is as good as a trigger for remembering the experience, anytime.

I'm OOM (Out Of Merit), so have +1 WOsMerit from me, at least!

Tip: Google on explanations for solar eclipse by flat earthers, if you need some good laughs 

I gave him one for you.

[OutOfMemory]

I gave him one for you.

Thanks, now i can give him one too

EDIT: I bet (hope) there will be a song composed about his experience soon, too.

[aesma]

I traveled to see a total eclipse once, from my vacations in Brittany to Portsmouth via ferry, in 1999.

Unfortunately the UK weather being what it is, even in summer, there was a total cloud cover. We saw everything darkening but no real night because of the clouds.

[El duderino_]

And another need to recapture the 70k flag

[BobLawblaw]

Still above $69,420.

Everything is fine.