Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[JorgeStolfi]

Why is [ Sunlot's plan ] better than giving clients the full 20%, so that they can invest those same 10% into Apple stock instead?  The clients will surely recover their 90% back much faster this way.

no.

apple isnt about to grow 5x

apple pays out about 1% a year in dividends

so it would probably take like 50-90years.

Well, how much dividend will the MtGOX 2.0 shares pay per year, as percentage of investment?  

There is no way of estimating how much trade they would get.  Why would people trade there rather than at Bitstamp or other exchanges?  Why would people trust their dollars and bitcoins to people who have an even more, er, peculiar past than Mark?

The motivations of the Sunlot team could be all or any of (1) get their hands on those 200'000 BTC with no legally binding commitment to returning them to clients; (2) let Mr. Gay-Bouchery and Mr. Karpelès get away, free and rich; (3) make sure that the assets are distributed according to the (bogus?) balances in Mark's database rather than actual deposits minus withdrawals; (5) pre-empt a police investigation that could find the real culprits for the theft; (5) earn points for the afterlife and a boy-scout medal by helping poor MtGOX clients to recoup a little more of their loss than they would through liquidation.  Have a guess...

EDIT: as for Apple, I don't know currently, but until some years ago they reinvested most of their profits into factories, shops and such; so stockholders got their returns through the increased value of their shares rather than dividends.  Even if  the MtGOX2.0 shares are real equity (rather than the "profit-only shares" of Neo&Bee), the company will have negligible assets of its own, so shares are unlikely to grow in value.

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[adamstgBit]

Why is [ Sunlot's plan ] better than giving clients the full 20%, so that they can invest those same 10% into Apple stock instead?  The clients will surely recover their 90% back much faster this way.

no.

apple isnt about to grow 5x

apple pays out about 1% a year in dividends

so it would probably take like 50-90years.

Well, how much dividend will the MtGOX 2.0 shares pay per year, as percentage of investment? 

There is no way of estimating how much trade they would get.  Why would people trade there rather than at Bitstamp or other exchanges?  Why would people trust their dollars and bitcoins to people who have an even more, er, peculiar past than Mark?

The motivations of the Sunlot team could be all or any of (1) get their hands on those 200'000 BTC with no legally binding commitment to returning them to clients; (2) let Mr. Gay-Bouchery and Mr. Karpelès get away, free and rich; (3) make sure that the assets are distributed according to the (bogus?) balances in Mark's database rather than actual deposits minus withdrawals; (5) pre-empt a police investigation that could find the real culprits for the theft; (5) earn points for the afterlife and a boy-scout medal by helping poor MtGOX clients to recoup a little more of their loss than they would through liquidation.  Have a guess...

lol idk

I agree they should just get the 20% and be done with it.

but it would seem 'they' would rather take on a high risk investment

buy hey, if they do pull off this deal i'll buy some shares from the victims who just want out.

its not everyday a bitcoin exchange offers shares... i'd take advantage 

[rpietila]

Why is [ Sunlot's plan ] better than giving clients the full 20%, so that they can invest those same 10% into Apple stock instead?  The clients will surely recover their 90% back much faster this way.

no.

apple isnt about to grow 5x

apple pays out about 1% a year in dividends

so it would probably take like 50-90years.

Well, how much dividend will the MtGOX 2.0 shares pay per year, as percentage of investment?  

There is no way of estimating how much trade they would get.  Why would people trade there rather than at Bitstamp or other exchanges?  Why would people trust their dollars and bitcoins to people who have an even more, er, peculiar past than Mark?

The motivations of the Sunlot team could be all or any of (1) get their hands on those 200'000 BTC with no legally binding commitment to returning them to clients; (2) let Mr. Gay-Bouchery and Mr. Karpelès get away, free and rich; (3) make sure that the assets are distributed according to the (bogus?) balances in Mark's database rather than actual deposits minus withdrawals; (5) pre-empt a police investigation that could find the real culprits for the theft; (5) earn points for the afterlife and a boy-scout medal by helping poor MtGOX clients to recoup a little more of their loss than they would through liquidation.  Have a guess...

EDIT: as for Apple, I don't know currently, but until some years ago they reinvested most of their profits into factories, shops and such; so stockholders got their returns through the increased value of their shares rather than dividends.  Even if  the MtGOX2.0 shares are real equity (rather than the "profit-only shares" of Neo&Bee), the company will have negligible assets of its own, so shares are unlikely to grow in value.

Very good points.

The idea that 200,000 BTC buy 20% of a startup with no much chance for success is absolutely incredulous. That would put the whole startup's value at 1,000,000 BTC. As a startup entrepreneur myself, I know that a qualified mgmt team is able to value themselves at $5 million at the first round. In this case the mgmt would get 5% of the new exchange and the creditors 95%. Even then I don't know of anyone who would take the deal instead of just taking their bitcoins back (the little that remains).

A criminal investigation must be pursued also. The blockchain will be completely analyzed sooner or later and the thieves will be caught. It is better for everyone that they be caught now.

[adamstgBit]

The idea that 200,000 BTC buy 20% 16.5% of a startup...

when you put it that way....  

so no one is going to get gox coins instead they'll get a tiny piece of the new but not improved MtGox that will go under a few months after it reopens

yup!

incase you missed it: http://www.coindesk.com/mt-gox-settlement-proposal-granted-key-preliminary-approval/

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[JorgeStolfi]

I am only wondering, why all the bitcoin-media is not covering the shady history of this Brock Pierce guy?

Good question. Who supports that media, e.g. Coindesk? Not small investors, I would think... Perhaps some people with large MtGOX balances?   

[hdbuck]

I am only wondering, why all the bitcoin-media is not covering the shady history of this Brock Pierce guy?

Good question. Who supports that media, e.g. Coindesk? Not small investors, I would think... Perhaps some people with large MtGOX balances?  

wasnt he the guy that leaked Mtgox's "rescue" plan just before it went down?
oh and didnt he also threatened TBF in an open letter, talking about revealing to the world extra sensitive documents before eventually backing down?

edit: ah nope, my mistake, that was some dude called "two-bit idiot", at least for the latter.

[joehal]

I would support the idea of a rehab of mt gox, not only so I could get some money invested back (I don't trust I would get much otherwise) but to support the chance of a new type of btc exchange creation. That is, if this new Gox 2.0 is indeed a new type of btc exchange, a transparent and very trustable exchange led by experts and no noname un-knowledgeable administrators.

[Carra23]

Any bets on the bottom for the weekend? I am hoping for 400 at least.

[rpietila]

Any bets on the bottom for the weekend? I am hoping for 400 at least.

The dearth of sellers is palpable.

[Adrian-x]

Well, how much dividend will the MtGOX 2.0 shares pay per year, as percentage of investment?  

There is no way of estimating how much trade they would get.  Why would people trade there rather than at Bitstamp or other exchanges?  Why would people trust their dollars and bitcoins to people who have an even more, er, peculiar past than Mark?

In all honesty MtGox will have to raise the bar before trust can be restored, it is possible.

I'd give them a go if, and that is a big if they implemented Open-Transactions server for crypto and complied with the existing regulation for brokerage firms (not MF-Global style) with zero fractional reserve debt when dealing with fiat.

Otherwise it's just another scam 2.0 and will never take off.

My take at the moment is greed is still driving the Gox mess.

[spooderman]

if gox came back, it would likely be the best exchange out there. It would have a point to prove.

[joehal]

if gox came back, it would likely be the best exchange out there. It would have a point to prove.

This is what everyone is hoping.

[bitcoinvest]

if gox came back, it would likely be the best exchange out there. It would have a point to prove.

This is what everyone is hoping.

agree on that...and want to add "Karpeles go in 1x1 cell"

EDIT: instead of be driving around Tokyo in a LIMO that i probably paid for it

[favelle75]

if gox came back, it would likely be the best exchange out there. It would have a point to prove.

That's just it. It probably would be the best, simply because it had to be. I would look forward to that.

[Adrian-x]

if gox came back, it would likely be the best exchange out there. It would have a point to prove.

Not without 2 factor authentication OT style management for bid and ask side crypto. Without OT it is just a Martingale scam built on top of the previous one.

[bitcoinvest]

guys let me ask something might sound stupid.....

let's think that savegox takes the Mt.Gox.com right?

You have to already have completed their form they have on savegox.com or the saving is for all the customers that MtGox.com has???

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[ElectricMucus]

Any gox comeback can only be hilarious, I mean devious. I mean HAVING OVERWHELMING AMOUNTS OF WEALTH and DEFINITELY SUCCEED IN THE LONG RUN.

[Carra23]

Any bets on the bottom for the weekend? I am hoping for 400 at least.

The dearth of sellers is palpable.

Same goes for volume. Does not mean much.