Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[tarmi]

what is the value ? isn't the value of a bitcoin exactly the price of a bitcoin ?

no.

[dgarcia]

what is the value ? isn't the value of a bitcoin exactly the price of a bitcoin ?

no.

Of course, it is. Otherwise the value is like NaN or Null.

[samsonn25]

Fiat value of btc is only what someone who is willing to buy it at:  and instead of using some imaginary number like 1 or 1 million  they usually use some exchange average value for it to convert, based on the last sale and buy and sell demand.  

[empowering]

Maybe it's time that we stop being delusional.
For 6 weeks or so everyone expected a huge break out. I think by now it's clear it's simply not gonna happen. At least not now.
Nothing even slightly points that way either. Really, there is no reason i can think of why we suddenly would go to the moon.
I'm a bull and will always be but i'm starting to cringe every time i see people adjusting their charts and lines and chicken bones to show how we will go up in 2 days from now. You just keep changing the dates and lines because nothing happened at the previous date.
I never seen so many people in denial and simply delusional here before.
I think it's better if you start facing the facts.

Price went down, value goes up. It's only a matter of time before price catches up with value.

what is the value ? isn't the value of a bitcoin exactly the price of a bitcoin ?

Price is not value --and vice versa , price is determined more by supply and demand than value, the value of something is somewhat apparent in the demand

[roslinpl]

Adam you should add to the poll question "(current question)" + " and are you bearish or bullish"

and the options like:

Below 18 Bearish   
18-21 Bearish
22-24 Bearish   
25-29 Bearish
30-39 Bearish
40-49 Bearish   
50-69 Bearish   
Above 70 Bearish   
Below 18 Bullish
18-21 Bullish
22-24 Bullish   
25-29 Bullish
30-39 Bullish
40-49 Bullish   
50-69 Bullish   
Above 70 Bullish

:]

Then if someone have split ego he will have to create second account

[JorgeStolfi]

Well, maybe [ mini-bubble ] is not the right technical term. I mean the one that started on May/20, at ~450 USD/BTC, and is still going on.

Fair enough, my techincal term would be an increase in value but you know, whatever perspective you look at it from

OK, I used 'mini-bubble' because the onset was sudden and the rise was fairly fast (450 to 680, or 1.5x, in 10 days), but not as fast as the 'November bubble' (from 200 to 1200, or 6x, in 28 days).

thats not a bubble, that was the bottom.

The bottom (after the all-time high) was ~350 USD/BTC, on April 11.

No, just CNY, BTC and LTC.

CNY?  Not CNH? (AFAIK it is the same currency, but called CNH when traded "offshore"; I suppose that there are barriers to limit flow between mainland and Hong Kong, is this so?)

[wingsfan23]

- Absolutely the most fundamentally positive position bitcoin has ever been in - Check

- Weak hands sold low for no reason what-so-ever, and willing to panic buy in at a higher price - Check

- Price suppressed well under actual value by weeks of manipulation, making people lose faith in bitcoin for no reason - Check

- Price recovering quickly and stabilizing after a dirty market dump, proving no more people actually want to sell - Check

Hash rate increasing, fear in the global financial markets growing, Circle/Xapo/ETF's about to come online, MatTheCat comes back as a bear just in time...

Hope you all have your tickets.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[SirChiko]

- Absolutely the most fundamentally positive position bitcoin has ever been in - Check

- Weak hands sold low for no reason what-so-ever, and willing to panic buy in at a higher price - Check

- Price suppressed well under actual value by weeks of manipulation, making people lose faith in bitcoin for no reason - Check

- Price recovering quickly and stabilizing after a dirty market dump, proving no more people actually want to sell - Check

Hash rate increasing, fear in the global financial markets growing, Circle/Xapo/ETF's about to come online, MatTheCat comes back as a bear just in time...

Hope you all have your tickets.

So when is the train leaving? On friday? I'd enjoy these weekend holidays in mountains of green candles  

[thefunkybits]

- Absolutely the most fundamentally positive position bitcoin has ever been in - Check

Yeah...I hate this word but these random dumps on the trendline look like manipulation  

[JayJuanGee]

Maybe it's time that we stop being delusional.
For 6 weeks or so everyone expected a huge break out. I think by now it's clear it's simply not gonna happen. At least not now.
Nothing even slightly points that way either. Really, there is no reason i can think of why we suddenly would go to the moon.
I'm a bull and will always be but i'm starting to cringe every time i see people adjusting their charts and lines and chicken bones to show how we will go up in 2 days from now. You just keep changing the dates and lines because nothing happened at the previous date.
I never seen so many people in denial and simply delusional here before.
I think it's better if you start facing the facts.

I agree, and I really think the slow to a crawl during the summer months just proves and underlines the fact that the Bitcoin market is still RULED by:

1.  Adolescents that only want to speculate during off-summer periods.  During summer it's all vacations, beers, chasing skirt, and happy fun time.  I bet if we did an honest poll, we'd find that > 90% of all bitcoin holders are under the age of 25.  Also points the the overall maturity level of the existing market (no offense to anyone here).

2.  Whales that only want to speculate during off-summer periods.  "Sell in May and go away."  And without major news on the near term horizon, they know they won't get the run up that they need to make serious money.  We need to keep in mind, that these guys get their insider info way ahead of the rest of the market, often months in advance.

Despite all the seemingly BIG news in the bitcoin investor media, this market is still extremely small.  Ridiculously so.  I mean c'mon, realistically we're still at what, maybe ~1M bitcoin holders worldwide at best?  That's both the good news and the bad news, all rolled into one.  

ADAM::::: Maybe we need a poll to ask the question of ages of readers of this thread? 

What's your age?

Below 18?

18-21?

22-24?

25-29?

30-39?

40-49?

50-69?

Above 70?

I'm 12... (mentally)

One beneficial thing about conducting a poll is that no one needs to specifically disclose their age in a manner that is traceable; however, on the other hand, one disadvantage of anonymous polls is that some people may NOT be truthful...     

In that regard, the results of such a poll would be a rough estimate of the age(s) of those persons who respond to such a poll.

[CEG5952]

What's with Huobi/Okcoin charts on Wisdom being so screwy/laggy lately? And now Tradingview charts have gone down several hours multiple times in the past couple days.

[inca]

- Absolutely the most fundamentally positive position bitcoin has ever been in - Check

Yeah...I hate this word but these random dumps on the trendline look like manipulation 

They do, in fact its starting to look like the gold market (interesting article fwiw: http://www.futuresmag.com/2014/07/16/huge-sell-orders-have-gold-bugged?t=commodities&ref=rss ). I'm not ruling out the possibility that this could simply be the market maturing though, its too early to tell but the hash rate may be levelling off and the volume of coins arriving on the exchanges could well be from commercial transaction via bitpay, coinbase, etc. Both those sources would have a minimum selling price which would explain the dumps on every rise and there's clearly buying volume every time it drops.

The conspiracy theorist in me (who found manipulation at technical areas in the gold market following its peak at 1900 and subsequent announcement of QE to infinity pretty obvious) is waiting for a large seller who doesn't care about price when dumping to turn up. It has all seen a bit easy from the legacy banking cartels so far. Dirty tricks will be coming.

Just hoping we get another bubble before then!

[vuduchyld]

I wonder why I can never reply to any of the polls.  I always see the poll with the votes, but I never get to answer

[Dragonkiller]

Apparently I'm over 70 

[calim]

I wonder why I can never reply to any of the polls.  I always see the poll with the votes, but I never get to answer

I've always assumed it is due to newbie status.  I think higher 'ranked' status folks get to vote.  Limits polls from alts and such.

[JayJuanGee]

Well, maybe [ mini-bubble ] is not the right technical term. I mean the one that started on May/20, at ~450 USD/BTC, and is still going on.

Fair enough, my techincal term would be an increase in value but you know, whatever perspective you look at it from

OK, I used 'mini-bubble' because the onset was sudden and the rise was fairly fast (450 to 680, or 1.5x, in 10 days), but not as fast as the 'November bubble' (from 200 to 1200, or 6x, in 28 days).

thats not a bubble, that was the bottom.

The bottom (after the all-time high) was ~350 USD/BTC, on April 11.

No, just CNY, BTC and LTC.

CNY?  Not CNH? (AFAIK it is the same currency, but called CNH when traded "offshore"; I suppose that there are barriers to limit flow between mainland and Hong Kong, is this so?)

In my thinking your comments are misleading b/c you are projecting the future, as if BTC prices are going to be on a continuous downward projection from December 2013 and thereafter.

None of us know the future of BTC prices, even though we are making bets and predictions accordingly.

You seem to consider your obligation to come into this party with a preconceived agenda in order to attempt to push and/or propagandize in the direction that you want BTC prices to go (which is down, from your preference point).  You attempt to mask your bias in terms of reasonableness and objectivity, which confuses and deceives some people into believing you.  It is too bad that you believe that you are bringing good to the world through your seemingly disingenuous representations.

Some people label you as a good troll, which I believe is giving you too much credit, as if you may have some good intentions, when in fact your more basic intentions seem to be to spread disinformation and to create FUD and distraction(s), and even if you believe you are bringing good to the world (or even dissuading a few investors from bitcoin), ultimately, likely you are NOT providing much if any service b/c of the fact that you knowingly provide disinformation in your attempt(s) to achieve your objectives and to propagandize with your negative projections regarding bitcoin.

One good thing is that bitcoin seems to have a very decent chance of succeeding for many years, despite your efforts (and the efforts of like-minded people to undermine it).  The innovative aspects of bitcoin are out of the bag and have already irreversibly changed the course of history, and more is very likely to come (absent some catastrophic event), either through bitcoin or through some other crypto(s) that will serve very similar purposes as bitcoin...

[keithers]

Sell wall on Stamp is pretty thin right now, we should be able to easily get back to around $625 with only a few people buying...

[thefunkybits]

there's clearly buying volume every time it drops.

Exactly. Yesterday I watched as about 800-1K BTC fill in the buy side (after the 500 BTC dump yesterday) , I wake up to see almost that exact amount of coins being dumped on the market (1K) this morning, totally wiping out all the coins that filled in the book for the day.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation