Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[cbeast]

Cheap coins on sale now. Mr Bearwhale has made a generous donation. 

Give it up. Nobody falls for the "cheap coins" thing anymore.

Look at all the positive things going on in bitcoin. 2 years from now everyone will be calling today's coins cheap, even the perma-bears. The network is growing much faster than bitcoin price, but it'll catch up once consumers have more of a reason to use it (as all of these projects develop).

Especially with remittances and projects similar to btcjam and openbazzar come out.

Right now most people are selling, but when consumerism increases hopefully you won't miss the boat.

It's not that. When (not IF) the panic buying "correction" comes in, good luck getting in a trade before it peaks again. All you get is cancelled orders and apologies from the exchanges.

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[octaft]

once consumers have more of a reason to use it (as all of these projects develop).

I see this argument a lot, and my question is this: what, exactly, would give consumers more of a reason to use bitcoin for legal transactions over existing payment methods? What will these new projects do differently that will make it more attractive for the consumer?

My opinion is that bitcoin's huge flaw in regards to regular consumer usage is that two of its major benefits both work in favor of the merchant.

Can't reverse transactions: benefits the merchant, makes it harder for them to get ripped off, but easier for the consumer to be ripped off, or to force them to accept what could be an inferior product with no guarantee of a refund.

Much cheaper on fees: benefits the merchant. Consumers don't pay fees on credit cards or cash, anyway, except interest fees for CC's when you don't cover what you bought, but that's fair because you're borrowing money from the issuing bank. In fact, the consumer will see a fee where they wouldn't with other methods, as they have to pay the fee when they send the bitcoins.

Unfortunately, it's not the merchant you need to cater to in business, it's the consumer. I think consumers are going to continue to prefer the safety and reversibility of transactions using other methods for the foreseeable future.

The only way it would work is if merchants provided a nice discount for using bitcoin, but not all merchants will want to do that, and not all consumers will want to go through the trouble of procuring bitcoins just to save 5% or something. Some of the merchants might have such small profit margins that they are simply unable to offer such a discount and still show a profit.

My opinion is the best hope is as a way to send large amounts of money quickly. I think banking on the consumer is very likely to be a lost cause, and I think a lot of the merchants accepting bitcoin are doing so as a publicity stunt and as a way to gain some business from the bitcoin crowd that they wouldn't be getting, otherwise. Not to mention the vast majority of them effectively instantly sell them.

It's not enough to be slightly better for people to want to go through the trouble of changing the status quo. It's got to be significantly better. I think for sending large amounts of money, this is true: it IS significantly easier, generally faster, and cheaper. The same can't necessarily be said for its use in the consumer/merchant relationship.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[lyth0s]

once consumers have more of a reason to use it (as all of these projects develop).

I see this argument a lot, and my question is this: what, exactly, would give consumers more of a reason to use bitcoin for legal transactions over existing payment methods? What will these new projects do differently that will make it more attractive for the consumer?

My opinion is that bitcoin's huge flaw in regards to regular consumer usage is that two of its major benefits both work in favor of the merchant.

Can't reverse transactions: benefits the merchant, makes it harder for them to get ripped off, but easier for the consumer to be ripped off, or to force them to accept what could be an inferior product with no guarantee of a refund.

Much cheaper on fees: benefits the merchant. Consumers don't pay fees on credit cards or cash, anyway, except interest fees for CC's when you don't cover what you bought, but that's fair because you're borrowing money from the issuing bank. In fact, the consumer will see a fee where they wouldn't with other methods, as they have to pay the fee when they send the bitcoins.

Unfortunately, it's not the merchant you need to cater to in business, it's the consumer. I think consumers are going to continue to prefer the safety and reversibility of transactions using other methods for the foreseeable future.

The only way it would work is if merchants provided a nice discount for using bitcoin, but not all merchants will want to do that, and not all consumers will want to go through the trouble of procuring bitcoins just to save 5% or something. Some of the merchants might have such small profit margins that they are simply unable to offer such a discount and still show a profit.

My opinion is the best hope is as a way to send large amounts of money quickly. I think banking on the consumer is very likely to be a lost cause, and I think a lot of the merchants accepting bitcoin are doing so as a publicity stunt and as a way to gain some business from the bitcoin crowd that they wouldn't be getting, otherwise. Not to mention the vast majority of them effectively instantly sell them.

It's not enough to be slightly better for people to want to go through the trouble of changing the status quo. It's got to be significantly better. I think for sending large amounts of money, this is true: it IS significantly easier, generally faster, and cheaper. The same can't necessarily be said for its use in the consumer/merchant relationship.

Much like many gas stations in the US give a cash discount or small mom and pop stores give cash discounts, I believe this will happen for bitcoin as well.

Other advantages for consumers will be:
1. protection against inflation
2. No frozen accounts like Cyprus
3. Banking for the 6+ billion people in the world that don't have banking
4. Remittances -- Save 10%+ on sending money to 3rd world countries
5. Internet transactions (usually seller based) -- Too many people scam with other services like paypal, I would gladly take a 5% cut off my revenue to know that my transaction is irreversible and I cannot be scammed by a buyer
6. Secondary platforms such as a decentralized stock market. -- China will go ape shit over this. All they have right now is real estate and wealth management products (essentially a ponzi scheme). This will allow people in countries that attempt to stop capital flight to actually have oversees investments.

I'm sure there is more, but that is a decent start.

[kefky]

we are starting our climb to 500 !

just waiting someone to tell how china is bullish.

what do you mean my this?

[piyany]

we are starting our climb to 500 !

just waiting someone to tell how china is bullish.

what do you mean my this?

He means fomo is starting to fade and he needs to reshort higher  

[Dotto]

once consumers have more of a reason to use it (as all of these projects develop).

bad points

All bad points, octaft.

Consumers get multiplied x5 or x10 his purchasing power by year, instead of get it diluted in the fiat scheme
Paypal and others will offer chargebacks
Consumers bypass the corrupt banking system
Consumers bypass the corrupt central state system
Consumers get, in fact, discount price or heavy discount price

It´s a win-win situation that everyone would want, except the actual overlords of the system that right now are probably trying to undermine crypto via manipulation, overregulation and paying trolls

[macsga]

Whenever the trend reverses... YET another huge dump and down we go. Free market, no manipulation. Seems legit.

[tarmi]

we are starting our climb to 500 !

just waiting someone to tell how china is bullish.

what do you mean my this?

He means fomo is starting to fade and he needs to reshort higher  

there goes my cunning plan. 

[myworkaccount]

My opinion is that bitcoin's huge flaw in regards to regular consumer usage is that two of its major benefits both work in favor of the merchant.

Can't reverse transactions: benefits the merchant, makes it harder for them to get ripped off, but easier for the consumer to be ripped off, or to force them to accept what could be an inferior product with no guarantee of a refund.

Much cheaper on fees: benefits the merchant. Consumers don't pay fees on credit cards or cash, anyway, except interest fees for CC's when you don't cover what you bought, but that's fair because you're borrowing money from the issuing bank. In fact, the consumer will see a fee where they wouldn't with other methods, as they have to pay the fee when they send the bitcoins.

I don't really see the issue on your first "flaw":
-When I need to RMA something I don't contact my creditcard company but the merchant.
-Merchant regulation ( example:The law in Belgium states things bought online can be returned for free up to 14 days after delivery no   questions asked)
- Merchants offering the best return policies and the best trust ratings would be another tool to compete with the competition.

It's nothing a free market can't resolve on itself.

And cc fees are calculated into your purchasing price....

[cbeast]

The old double-sneak bull-trap bear-reach-around pattern. I'm not afraid of the price falling, I'm afraid of what will be born in the Spring.  

[tarmi]

so, july pump postponed until the next spring?

[klee]

Guys I have a question, especially for traders of other stuff (stocks, commodities, indices etc).

Which other asset has similar volatility in the same timeframe as Bitcoin? And with good volume?

I want wild price fluctuations in about the timeframes that BTC has (not so fast as forex).

Any ideas?

Help appreciated.

[tarmi]

Guys I have a question, especially for traders of other stuff (stocks, commodities, indices etc).

Which other asset has similar volatility in the same timeframe as Bitcoin? And with good volume?

I want wild price fluctuations in about the timeframes that BTC has (not so fast as forex).

Any ideas?

Help appreciated.

penny stocks.

[cbeast]

Guys I have a question, especially for traders of other stuff (stocks, commodities, indices etc).

Which other asset has similar volatility in the same timeframe as Bitcoin? And with good volume?

I want wild price fluctuations in about the timeframes that BTC has (not so fast as forex).

Any ideas?

Help appreciated.

Lottery tickets.

[klee]

Guys I have a question, especially for traders of other stuff (stocks, commodities, indices etc).

Which other asset has similar volatility in the same timeframe as Bitcoin? And with good volume?

I want wild price fluctuations in about the timeframes that BTC has (not so fast as forex).

Any ideas?

Help appreciated.

Lottery tickets.

Seriously 

[cbeast]

Guys I have a question, especially for traders of other stuff (stocks, commodities, indices etc).

Which other asset has similar volatility in the same timeframe as Bitcoin? And with good volume?

I want wild price fluctuations in about the timeframes that BTC has (not so fast as forex).

Any ideas?

Help appreciated.

Lottery tickets.

Seriously 

Heh, penny stocks was taken. Also, it depends on how you view the question before or after the lottery.

[klee]

Guys I have a question, especially for traders of other stuff (stocks, commodities, indices etc).

Which other asset has similar volatility in the same timeframe as Bitcoin? And with good volume?

I want wild price fluctuations in about the timeframes that BTC has (not so fast as forex).

Any ideas?

Help appreciated.

Lottery tickets.

Seriously 

Heh, penny stocks was taken. Also, it depends on how you view the question before or after the lottery.

Penny stocks have same volume?

I am still asking seriously.

[Gyrsur]

[NotLambchop]

Watup hoes?
[Good morning Bitcoin enthusiasts and finance aficionados!]