Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[brg444]

No mate. They don't have to convince consumers. That's the point. They'll never know their money is being sent using the bitcoin network just like people don't know anything about http works when they're surfing the web now. To the consumer, the infrastructure and methodology they use will be the same as it is now. There's no leap of faith they have to make.

https://stripe.com/blog/bitcoin-the-stripe-perspective

Oh I'm sorry but this is a wrong and myopic way to see Bitcoin's future.

There is NO hiding Bitcoin from the consumer unless Bitcoin essentially becomes a Ripple adopted by banks and this is not the goal here.

To fully realises the promises of Bitcoin they absolutely will have to convince consumers to use Bitcoin.

Fortunately the arguments will be many and greed will do the heavy lifting.

[NotLambchop]

There were regional kings and High Kings that sat on large Iron Thrones made from the swords of their slain enemies.

The hierarchy doesn't tell about your wealth or power.
It is only a title.
During feudalism, Kings where most of the time less powerful that rich Duchies.

Err...  Obama is less wealthy than a number of Americans, what's your point?

Obama is not a government. What's your point ?

My point was that (1) Europe used to be extremely decentralized for most of its History and (2) that the title of "King" did not mean that you own anything.

The king is also not the government.  Like the king, being a president does not mean you own anything.

I swear, this thread is worse than a Communist kindergarten 

[octaft]

No mate. They don't have to convince consumers. That's the point. They'll never know their money is being sent using the bitcoin network just like people don't know anything about http works when they're surfing the web now. To the consumer, the infrastructure and methodology they use will be the same as it is now. There's no leap of faith they have to make.

https://stripe.com/blog/bitcoin-the-stripe-perspective

I don't really see a whole lot in there that explains why bitcoin will be so much better for your average consumer than credit cards.

[cbeast]

There were regional kings and High Kings that sat on large Iron Thrones made from the swords of their slain enemies.

The hierarchy doesn't tell about your wealth or power.
It is only a title.
During feudalism, Kings where most of the time less powerful that rich Duchies.

Err...  Obama is less wealthy than a number of Americans, what's your point?

Obama is not a government. What's your point ?

My point was that (1) Europe used to be extremely decentralized for most of its History and (2) that the title of "King" did not mean that you own anything.

The king is also not the government.  Like the king, being a president does not mean you own anything.

I swear, this thread is worse than a Communist kindergarten 

[superresistant]

I swear, this thread is worse than a Communist kindergarten 

I swear some people should learn History before opening their mouth :

there are no historical examples that survived for a meaningful length of time.

Start from the fall of the Western Roman Empire in 476 to Early Modern France in 1453 (beginning of what a state look like but still not a state).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Roman_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_France

[marcelus]

No mate. They don't have to convince consumers. That's the point. They'll never know their money is being sent using the bitcoin network just like people don't know anything about http works when they're surfing the web now. To the consumer, the infrastructure and methodology they use will be the same as it is now. There's no leap of faith they have to make.

https://stripe.com/blog/bitcoin-the-stripe-perspective

Oh I'm sorry but this is a wrong and myopic way to see Bitcoin's future.

There is NO hiding Bitcoin from the consumer unless Bitcoin essentially becomes a Ripple adopted by banks and this is not the goal here.

To fully realises the promises of Bitcoin they absolutely will have to convince consumers to use Bitcoin.

Fortunately the arguments will be many and greed will do the heavy lifting.

It represents a transitional period IMO. Consumers will never be able to use bitcoin directly. 1. Technical issues - payments aren't instant, not very good for micropayments, volatility, etc. 2. Regulatory issues - nobody will use a currency they have to declare CGT on.

This doesn't mean the future isn't p2p. BitUSD (on BitsharesX) offers instant payments at almost zero volatility vs USD for example. Consumers will be able to use something like that. Or a bitUSD sidechain to the bitcoin blockchain possibly.

[Eriul_Pow]

My point was that (1) Europe used to be extremely decentralized for most of its History and (2) that the title of "King" did not mean that you own anything.

 
http://i-magesdemarc.pagesperso-orange.fr/Images/lagaule.gif

[marcelus]

No mate. They don't have to convince consumers. That's the point. They'll never know their money is being sent using the bitcoin network just like people don't know anything about http works when they're surfing the web now. To the consumer, the infrastructure and methodology they use will be the same as it is now. There's no leap of faith they have to make.

https://stripe.com/blog/bitcoin-the-stripe-perspective

I don't really see a whole lot in there that explains why bitcoin will be so much better for your average consumer than credit cards.

Remittances for less than 1% cost as opposed to 10-15%. Not better? Really?

[MrPiggles]

You all worry far too much about governments and laws.

You should try this book

http://www.amazon.com/How-Found-Freedom-Unfree-World/dp/0965603679


PDF for cheapskates:
http://eiiiforum.com/picsfromusers/howifoundfreedom.pdf


Stop worrying about the freedom of other people, just become free yourselves. You cannot change anything, so stop worrying. Stop trying to convince other people your method or theory of government will work for them, just disentangle yourself from the system you dislike and become free.

[Oblodo]

I am a social liberal, I believe in government and democracy. I also believe in BTC. It seems like there are a lot of antiestablishment and nutcases in here. I understand the need to form ideas of enemies to explain your own fallacy. We are hard wired to see order and system. Even when there are none. The world is relying on that. The illusion of order is what keeps society structured. Take the Ebola scare atm, most governments do not fear Ebola, they fear the panic it can set off. There are no real order, just small tribes, call them your friends and family, interacting and pretending to work for a better tomorrow. We are primates. We act like primates and are driven by the same desires as our other primate cousins. We do have self awareness, and languages that enable us to post stuff on Internet forums like this. But it's all just a pissing contest and battle for mates and offspring. Individuals matter, empathy matter. I think we are the evolutionary winners because of empathy. We enjoy working with other humans. Of course there is always never a rule without exception. A lot of egotists in here. Then again, it's the speculation forum..

[NotLambchop]

I swear, this thread is worse than a Communist kindergarten 

I swear some people should learn History before opening their mouth :

there are no historical examples that survived for a meaningful length of time.

Start from the fall of the Western Roman Empire in 476 to Early Modern France in 1453 (beginning of what a state look like but still not a state).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Roman_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_France

>"In 486, Gaul ceased to be a Roman state by the Franks at the Battle of Soissons. Almost immediately afterwards, Gaul came under the rule of the Merovingians, the first kings of France."

Stay clueless

[superresistant]

Stop worrying about the freedom of other people, just become free yourselves. You cannot change anything, so stop worrying. Stop trying to convince other people your method or theory of government will work for them, just disentangle yourself from the system you dislike and become free.

So true
It is a waste of time to complain about things that you cannot change.
It is just wrong to convince people of what you think is good for them.

We are hard wired to see order and system. Even when there are none. The world is relying on that. The illusion of order is what keeps society structured.

The voice of wisdom !!
Order is an illusion.
Stop giving up your freedom for the illusion of security.

>"In 486, Gaul ceased to be a Roman state by the Franks at the Battle of Soissons. Almost immediately afterwards, Gaul came under the rule of the Merovingians, the first kings of France."
Stay clueless

Don't try to look more retarded than what you are. There is no "France" in 486. This word has been created much later by historians. The idea of a state does not even exist.

[NotLambchop]

...You cannot change anything, so stop worrying...

Your feed rations will be increased.



  ~Your Beneficent Reptilian Overlords.

[octaft]

No mate. They don't have to convince consumers. That's the point. They'll never know their money is being sent using the bitcoin network just like people don't know anything about http works when they're surfing the web now. To the consumer, the infrastructure and methodology they use will be the same as it is now. There's no leap of faith they have to make.

https://stripe.com/blog/bitcoin-the-stripe-perspective

I don't really see a whole lot in there that explains why bitcoin will be so much better for your average consumer than credit cards.

Remittances for less than 1% cost as opposed to 10-15%. Not better? Really?

As far as I can tell, nowhere in that link is that mentioned.

[MrPiggles]

Stop worrying about the freedom of other people, just become free yourselves. You cannot change anything, so stop worrying. Stop trying to convince other people your method or theory of government will work for them, just disentangle yourself from the system you dislike and become free.

So true
It is a waste of time to complain about things that you cannot change.
It is just wrong to convince people of what you think is good for them.

I'm aware I'm doing the same thing, lol

[mmitech]

this is why states and borders exist, and some kind of enforced regulation has to exist so people can live with each other.

Here's the problem - you're confusing yourself for humanity. That's called projection.

Maybe you need enforced regulations in order to get along with other people. If so, that's a personal problem you should discuss with a competent psychotherapist.

Yea, I have/had major issues getting along with people who have different visions and different life style that I didn't/don't agree with. thanks to the regulations that exists in my home country (Algeria) and here in EU I could still live with them, in other words I lived the CHAOS first hand between 1991-2000, so try to live in a system where having an Islamic orthodox fucking you up and slaughtering everyone against his vision then tell me how to get people to agree on something in a free of regulations state/world where you have many demographics, because you don't know shit about that, I lived it first hand.

Some of you have no fucking idea what freedom means, freedom is necessary but total freedom is CHAOS, regulations are meant for a reason... take Syria for example, watch how a lack of a government is working out for these people.... take Iraq for another example, a total CHAOS, they are losing territory to a terrorist organization that calls it self a state... because of the almost lack of government.


I would love to watch how your technological distributed libertarian state will work...

[MrPiggles]

...You cannot change anything, so stop worrying...

Your feed rations will be increased.



  ~Your Beneficent Reptilian Overlords.

I'm cutting for a fight, but thanks.

[NotLambchop]

... We act like primates and are driven by the same desires as our other primate cousins...

TL;DR:  Drop your pretences and devolve already.

[marcelus]

No mate. They don't have to convince consumers. That's the point. They'll never know their money is being sent using the bitcoin network just like people don't know anything about http works when they're surfing the web now. To the consumer, the infrastructure and methodology they use will be the same as it is now. There's no leap of faith they have to make.

https://stripe.com/blog/bitcoin-the-stripe-perspective

I don't really see a whole lot in there that explains why bitcoin will be so much better for your average consumer than credit cards.

Remittances for less than 1% cost as opposed to 10-15%. Not better? Really?

As far as I can tell, nowhere in that link is that mentioned.

It doesn't have to be. That's what it costs now. In a bitcoin-backed payments system there are tiny barriers to entry into the global remittances industry. A company providing payments services has hardly any costs. Competition will ensure wafer thin margins.

[superresistant]

this is why states and borders exist, and some kind of enforced regulation has to exist so people can live with each other.

Here's the problem - you're confusing yourself for humanity. That's called projection.
Maybe you need enforced regulations in order to get along with other people. If so, that's a personal problem you should discuss with a competent psychotherapist.

Yea, I have/had major issues getting along with people who have different visions and different life style that I didn't/don't agree with. thanks to the regulations that exists in my home country (Algeria) and here in EU I could still live with them, in other words I lived the CHAOS first hand between 1991-2000, so try to live in a system where having an Islamic orthodox fucking you up and slaughtering everyone against his vision then tell me how to get people to agree on something in a free of regulations state/world where you have many demographics, because you don't know shit about that, I lived it first hand.
Some of you have no fucking idea what freedom means, freedom is necessary but total freedom is CHAOS, regulations are meant for a reason... take Syria for example, watch how a lack of a government worked for these people.... take Iraq for another example, a total CHAOS, a government that cant do shit about losing territory to a terrorist organization that calls it self a state...
I would love to watch how your technological distributed libertarian state will work...

Minimal state would do for example.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minarchism

their only legitimate function is the protection of individuals from aggression, theft, breach of contract, and fraud, and that the only legitimate governmental institutions are the military, police, and courts. In the broadest sense, it also includes fire departments, prisons, the executive, and legislatures as legitimate government functions. Such states are generally called night-watchman states.

USA used to be a minimal state.