Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[JorgeStolfi]

If anyone is telling you money sucks, they are sure right about this junk. Fortunately, I never had to use it, and really pity any poor soul who had to.

I used those, and several other versions of the currency, each defined as 1000 of the previous unit.  IIRC, at one point inflation got to 40% per month [ sic ].

But guess what, the economy kept working in spite of that.  badly, of course, but it did.  Sorry if that disappoints some, but civilization did not collapse.

And people did not get utterly ruined.  No sane person "invests" in cash; when the inflation gets too high, banks will offer inflation-corrected savings and investment funds, that allow fast deposit and withdrawal at any time.

Inflation, like salt on food, is good in small doses, disastrous otherwise.  It must be just big enough to dissuade people from hoarding the currency.  Inflation of 5% per year requires adjustments in salaries and prices, each year or every 6 months, and must be explicitly taken into account in planning or contracts spanning many months.  Beyond that, inflation begins to be a real pain: prices and salaries have to be adjusted all the time, people must rush to invest the salary, etc.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[JorgeStolfi]

The last paragraph in my quote above is not mine, of course; it was inserted by @walsoraj.

A weird sense of humor, or the desperation of a bag-holder?  

But it is true: I did sell all my BTC to invest in XRP, months ago.  And I have been doubling my XRP holdings every day since then, as I did before with BTC.

Considering I am one of your alt accounts, technically you wrote it.

Not a bag holder. Just trying to help.

I can only imagine how much xrp you now have considering you were long suspected to be The Great Manipulator with tens of thousnds of btc.

Sorry about that, sometimes my other personalities get on my nerves.  Never mind.

My holdings are easy to compute: I learned about bitcoin ~350 days ago, and I have been doubling my hoard every day since then. 

I am not the Great Manipulator, of course.  Watashi-wa Nakamoto Satoshi-san desu, but don't tell that to anyone.

[MrPiggles]

The last paragraph in my quote above is not mine, of course; it was inserted by @walsoraj.

A weird sense of humor, or the desperation of a bag-holder?  

But it is true: I did sell all my BTC to invest in XRP, months ago.  And I have been doubling my XRP holdings every day since then, as I did before with BTC.

Considering I am one of your alt accounts, technically you wrote it.

Not a bag holder. Just trying to help.

I can only imagine how much xrp you now have considering you were long suspected to be The Great Manipulator with tens of thousnds of btc.

Sorry about that, sometimes my other personalities get on my nerves.  Never mind.

My holdings are easy to compute: I learned about bitcoin ~350 days ago, and I have been doubling my hoard every day since then.  

I am not the Great Manipulator, of course.  Watashi-wa Nakamoto Satoshi-san desu, but don't tell that to anyone.

if you started with 1 btc 30 days ago and doubled every day you'd have 1,073,741,839 bitcoin by now.

If you started 350 days ago I really can't be arsed to calculate it, but either way you're clearly full of shit even if you only started with 0.01 btc or a few satoshis.

http://www.al6400.com/blog/2006/07/10/a-penny-doubled-everyday/

[solex]

I used those, and several other versions of the currency, each defined as 1000 of the previous unit.

x1000, then x1000, then x100, for the full story.

But guess what, the economy kept working in spite of that.  badly, of course, but it did.  Sorry if that disappoints some, but civilization did not collapse.
And people did not get utterly ruined.  No sane person "invests" in cash;

(my bold)
The primary purpose of money is a store of value, so that it can proxy for products and services in commerce. It must retain value over time to properly function. If it doesn't then the whole economy is badly distorted, made inefficient.

when the inflation gets too high, banks will offer inflation-corrected savings and investment funds, that allow fast deposit and withdrawal at any time.

You know, of course, about the horrendous corallito, and how the banks ruined thousands of savers. This has been practiced in many countries, not just Argentina and Cyprus. Also, investment (pension) funds have been raided in numerous countries, like Hungary and France, in recent years.

Inflation, like salt on food, is good in small doses, disastrous otherwise.  It must be just big enough to dissuade people from hoarding the currency.  Inflation of 5% per year requires adjustments in salaries and prices, each year or every 6 months, and must be explicitly taken into account in planning or contracts spanning many months.  Beyond that, inflation begins to be a real pain: prices and salaries have to be adjusted all the time, people must rush to invest the salary, etc.

Hoarding is simply the same as saving. Savings are what makes capitalism a viable economic model. Inflation is a stealth tax from those who have last use of new money (the poor, middle class) to the pockets of those who have first use of new money (the banks, wealthy, government).

[MrPiggles]

for a maths professor jorge isn't very good at maths, lol

[marcus_of_augustus]

Crap money is ok for crap countries, in fact it almost defines them. All the observational evidence strongly points towards sound money as being a necessary condition for prosperity, especially over long time frames.

Jorge and ripple seem like a good match but in the long run they might both be dead.

[justusranvier]

Jorge and ripple seem like a good match but in the long run they might both be dead.

I see what you did there.

[octaft]

I am beginning to wonder if I was wrong about Jorge not being a troll...

[dropt]

If you started 350 days ago I really can't be arsed to calculate it, but either way you're clearly full of shit even if you only started with 0.01 btc or a few satoshis.

Which obviously means he has 0BTC.  Pretty easy to double 0BTC everyday now ain't it. 

[MrPiggles]

I am beginning to wonder if I was wrong about Jorge not being a troll...

I've been calling him a troll for some time

If you started 350 days ago I really can't be arsed to calculate it, but either way you're clearly full of shit even if you only started with 0.01 btc or a few satoshis.

Which obviously means he has 0BTC.  Pretty easy to double 0BTC everyday now ain't it.  

Yeah, but is it possible to sell 0 btc to buy 0 xrp?

Pretty sure that just makes him full of shit, if he's claiming to have something and double it daily but really has zero, it's not clever semantics, it's bullshit.

[octaft]

I am beginning to wonder if I was wrong about Jorge not being a troll...

I've been calling him a troll for some time

If you started 350 days ago I really can't be arsed to calculate it, but either way you're clearly full of shit even if you only started with 0.01 btc or a few satoshis.

Which obviously means he has 0BTC.  Pretty easy to double 0BTC everyday now ain't it.  

Yeah, but is it possible to sell 0 btc to buy 0 xrp?

Pretty sure that just makes him full of shit, if he's claiming to have something and double it daily but really has zero, it's not clever semantics, it's bullshit.

Well he is definitely trolling now, of course, I'm just wondering if he's always trolling or just trying his hand at it for a bit.

[noobtrader]

price is moving   

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[solex]

Well he is definitely trolling now, of course, I'm just wondering if he's always trolling or just trying his hand at it for a bit.

Think of it like the journey of Anakin Skywalker, way back, starting off with an open mind, but soon began an ever deeper descent into the troll-side of the farce.

[marcus_of_augustus]

Well he is definitely trolling now, of course, I'm just wondering if he's always trolling or just trying his hand at it for a bit.

Think of it like the journey of Anakin Skywalker, way back, starting off with an open mind, but soon began an ever deeper descent into the troll-side of the farce.

  ...
in that one the farce is strong,
mastered the dark arts of the subtle FUD has he.

[79b79aa8d5047da6d3XX]

Hoarding is simply the same as saving. Savings are what makes capitalism a viable economic model. Inflation is a stealth tax from those who have last use of new money (the poor, middle class) to the pockets of those who have first use of new money (the banks, wealthy, government).

It is not quite so simple. Standard economists worry that if inflation becomes too low (or if there is deflation), incentive to hoard increases and incentive to invest drops, which could lead to negative growth, the bête noire of capitalism.

[solex]

Hoarding is simply the same as saving. Savings are what makes capitalism a viable economic model. Inflation is a stealth tax from those who have last use of new money (the poor, middle class) to the pockets of those who have first use of new money (the banks, wealthy, government).

It is not quite so simple. Standard economists worry that if inflation becomes too low (or if there is deflation), incentive to hoard increases and incentive to invest drops, which could lead to negative growth, the bête noire of capitalism.

There is merit to the argument that inflation should match real GDP, rather than remain near zero, with deflationary effects. Even gold "inflates" as the stockpile grows from mining. Bitcoin will inflate at a greater rate than the world real GDP growth rate for some years yet. And if Bitcoin deflationary effects ever proved a constraint on GDP in a Bitcoin economy, then there is always Litecoin etc to take up the slack.

Also, those standard economists may well be in "academic capture" and parrot the view that serves their employers (central banks, government) best.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/05/18/regulatory-and-academic-capture/

[mooncake]

It is not quite so simple. Standard economists worry that if inflation becomes too low (or if there is deflation), incentive to hoard increases and incentive to invest drops, which could lead to negative growth, the bête noire of capitalism.

There is inflation because there is money. The purpose of money primarily is to facilitate trade. That is not to say trade cannot happen without money. Money just makes trading easier.

From that perspective, there is no reason for inflation at all. This is because money is just an intermediary for the exchange of goods.

Now, on the argument that deflation leads to negative growth, that is true to a certain extent but mostly because the basis of growth is consumption, to the extent of excessiveness, regardless of factors like environmental degradation which may lead to our eventual extinction because of climate change for example.

Capitalism when driven by greed will lead to our eventual demise because there is no limit to greed. The only way out is to realise this before it is too late.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation