bitfloor issues?

[Dr3AM$cAp3]

After being up to my eyes in charts/graphs/forum thread and on the floor itself nearly 24/7, I decided to run to the store and fetch some vittles.... I was back in the forums and in this thread at 6:24.  

I know it's stressful, but I don't think there is anything to worry about.

When the money shows up in my bank account, I am just going to invest in something safe like a tax-free Roth IRA or the S&P market... -.-

[wtfvanity]

i didn't get this email... why not?

That's actually a good question.

It was said the e-mail would be sent out in small grouops so as not to completely disrupt the market @ bitfloor, but it seems like alot of people didn't get notified.

Did you have a USD balance? Maybe they only notified people with a USD balance, or maybe only if you have a BTC balance or something. Not sure, but I got the e-mail 8am.

Same for me, had a USD balance, no email.

I see their message on twitter about pleae withdraw by ACH.

https://twitter.com/bitfloor

What about those that didn't have their account verified? We have to verify it now? Or will they just ACH the funds out?

[Rassah]

Bitfloor stole what, 20,000 BTC from customers last summer/fall. I still can't understand why anyone would trust them with a dime after that. This result is far from surprising.

Can you please provide some backup to the claim that Bitfloor stole the money themselves, as opposed to Bitfloor having the money stolen from them?

[DeathAndTaxes]

I had placed an ACH withdraw request in yesterday prior to the suspending announcement.  It posted to the bank account this morning on time, like every time.  For those worried about Roman stealing funds this was a very very large ACH.  If he was looking to steal anyone's funds I would expect he would have started with this one.

[johnblaze]

sigh

from twtitter:

We will not be converting USD balances to BTC for withdraw. USD must be withdrawn via ACH. International users stay tuned for wire details.

such a fkn joke.

how do you email only certain users, and then deny everyone else the choice to make a trade? such bs

[Minor Miner]

I had placed an ACH withdraw request in yesterday prior to the suspending announcement.  It posted to the bank account this morning on time, like every time.  For those worried about Roman stealing funds this was a very very large ACH.  If he was looking to steal anyone's funds I would expect he would have started with this one.

It would appear that you are very lucky then.   To have made that large withdrawl and to have been one of the lucky ones to have been notified.   Two great pieces of luck, you must be living good.   And, did you say you also were lucky and got out of another near miss too?  Wow.
I do not think he is stealing, but incompetence is tantamount to fraud.   there is a lot of truth to this statement which is why i insist BFL is fraud (because they have constantly lied compounding their incompetence when they have taken money from people on the CLAIM that they are expert).   

[john_doe]

I've been using CampBX for quite some time now. No issues. You should give it a try.

[Rassah]

I do not think he is stealing, but incompetence is tantamount to fraud.

As a business start-up manager myself, could you please explain to me how having your bank account closed on you is a form of incompetence? I'd like to learn so that I can avoid the same problem with my business.

[antimattercrusader]

I do not think he is stealing, but incompetence is tantamount to fraud.

As a business start-up manager myself, could you please explain to me how having your bank account closed on you is a form of incompetence? I'd like to learn so that I can avoid the same problem with my business.

+1, especially in the BTC economy, +1, sir.

[BitcoinAshley]

Lol, just withdraw it, I don't know what all the fuss is.

who wants to wait a week+ to get USD in bank, then wait another week to get it back onto another exchange? what the hell are you talking about. its obivous you are a bitfloor apologist. i am not anti-bitfloor, i liked them very much and recommended them often.

Lol stfu fool. I am not a "bitfloor apologist" I am just in touch with reality. Everyone's pretending there's some major issue with USD like it was stolen or something - YES DUH it's a minor inconvenience to have to remove your USD from an exchange that is indefinitely closed - but it's an ACH transfer away from your bank account. It's safe, no "fuss" involved.
Also, you don't have to wait 2 weeks. Assuming you already have ACH verified, which is a good measure if you have USD sitting around because NO exchange is 100% safe, you wait 2 days to have it transferred and then 1/2 an hour if you use another exchange/funding service that allows bank deposits, or 2 days if you use an exchange that accepts USPS money order by mail. Your 2 week estimate is only if you (1) didn't have ACH verified at bitfloor, and (2) pick the longest possible funding option for exchanges. 2-4 days is not so bad. Chill out. I ain't no "apologist."

Bitfloor stole what, 20,000 BTC from customers last summer/fall. I still can't understand why anyone would trust them with a dime after that. This result is far from surprising.

Oh good, another fool to school. As was stated elsewhere in this thread:

but if youre an idiot for using a service thats been hacked then everyone is an idiot. every MS user, every google user, every facebook user, every adobe user, and probably every bitcointalk user too..

And

Can you please provide some backup to the claim that Bitfloor stole the money themselves, as opposed to Bitfloor having the money stolen from them?

Your [BlackLilac's] claim that Bitfloor themselves stole that money is quite a leap. It was hacked because Roman was stupid enough to leave a "cold" wallet on a web-facing box that he thought was secure. Those users are being payed back slowly but steadily with current and future profits. Sure, there's a possibility that he stole it himself, intending it as a sort of long-term forced loan. However, Bitfloor provides a UI and service that many people find preferable to all the other exchanges - and the cash deposit feature is simply unbeatable. What's happening here is that you are issuing a value judgement based on other peoples' risk/benefit analyses. For some people, the value of such a service, weighed against the redeeming factors surrounding the hack (changed security measures, now stores 100% of client funds in a TRUELY cold wallet, is paying back customers who were robbed) results in a risk/benefit analysis that indicates Bitfloor is a strong choice compared to other exchanges (which are dropping left and right, shutting down constantly, and many have been hacked in the past.)
If you  are an idiot for using bitfloor, then everyone on the internet is an idiot (including you) for it is nearly impossible to find a service that has not been hacked. Heck, I even get mail from various financial institutions (that I did business with many years ago) at least once a year saying their data center was compromised and information compromising my identity was stolen. Paypal regularly freezes/steals business or consumer accounts arbitrarily, nearly all of us have used Paypal at some point. So chill out with the attitude bro.

When the money shows up in my bank account, I am just going to invest in something safe like a tax-free Roth IRA or the S&P market... -.-

I lol'd at 'safe'

Oh, in response to another poster's question, ACH does have to be verified. Certain regulations regarding ACH have to be followed. So he can't just throw the funds into your account. It will take 2-3 business days to verify ACH. Some establishments require a verification that involves confirming a tiny amount that was deposited, and some require an ID - no significant difference, because in both cases you are providing your name and proving that you personally are tied to that account. There is no anonymity with ACH. But putting USD anywhere is a risk, and if you aren't aware of the relatively common practice of Banksters fucking over bitcoin exchanges, putting USD in an exchange probably wasn't a good idea if y'all didn't do your research first
So if you are going for anonymity and were registered through Tor with a tormail.org email and only deposited via cash deposit, your weak link was the USD you left there ;-D Sucks, right? (And of course the BoA security camera, lol.) Let this be a lesson. 

[Minor Miner]

I do not think he is stealing, but incompetence is tantamount to fraud.

As a business start-up manager myself, could you please explain to me how having your bank account closed on you is a form of incompetence? I'd like to learn so that I can avoid the same problem with my business.

Banks are regulated.   They take the risk of having any client launder money VERY seriously.  If you are operating a business that will require a lot of deposits and withdraws each day by MANY different people, you need to meet with compliance at the bank.   Give me the example of the problem you are having and I might have a suggestion (if you are not just trolling).   It is always better to meet with them BEFORE, because if it gets red flagged your chances of explaining are slim (they are risk adverse when it comes to regs and if you do not meet before you do not have a business account manager saying "this should comply" you only have the bureaucrat.
This is not rocket science.   Anyone who has run a real business would know this.   Anyone who has had a successful business that took credit cards and the business grew so fast that the processor started calling would know this.

[DeathAndTaxes]

I had placed an ACH withdraw request in yesterday prior to the suspending announcement.  It posted to the bank account this morning on time, like every time.  For those worried about Roman stealing funds this was a very very large ACH.  If he was looking to steal anyone's funds I would expect he would have started with this one.

It would appear that you are very lucky then.   To have made that large withdrawl and to have been one of the lucky ones to have been notified.   Two great pieces of luck, you must be living good.   And, did you say you also were lucky and got out of another near miss too?  Wow.

I wasn't notified either on my personal email or our company email.  The ACH withdraw was routine and before trading was suspended.  Our company uses (used) bitfloor to dump excess coins.  We make an ACH withdraw at least once a day.  Due to the chaos of the last week the ACH withdraw was larger than normal and it cleared without issue. My point was not that I was somehow special.  My point was that ACH withdraws are going out, BTC withdraws are going out.  Maybe people should stop speculating about frozen accounts, and stolen funds and just make a withdraw.

If you can see past all the FUD you are slinging that is.

[Minor Miner]

I had placed an ACH withdraw request in yesterday prior to the suspending announcement.  It posted to the bank account this morning on time, like every time.  For those worried about Roman stealing funds this was a very very large ACH.  If he was looking to steal anyone's funds I would expect he would have started with this one.

It would appear that you are very lucky then.   To have made that large withdrawl and to have been one of the lucky ones to have been notified.   Two great pieces of luck, you must be living good.   And, did you say you also were lucky and got out of another near miss too?  Wow.

I wasn't notified.  The ACH withdraw was routine and before trading was suspended.  Our company uses (used) bitfloor to offload excess coins.  We make an ACH withdraw at least once a day.  My point was not that I was somehow special.  ACH withdraws are going out.  I made another ACH withdraw for the balance after the suspension, and I have no doubt it will hit our account Friday or Monday.

If you can see past all the FUD you are slinging the point was ACH withdraws and BTC withdraws are being processed.  Users who are verified should withdraw their funds.  Users who are not verified should either get verified or wait to see if bitfloor is able to secure an alternate bank account and resume trading.

I do not consider my opinion FUD.   But if that seems to be your best logical argument (name calling) it says a lot more about who you are then who I am). 
Good Day.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Banks are regulated.   They take the risk of having any client launder money VERY seriously.  If you are operating a business that will require a lot of deposits and withdraws each day by MANY different people, you need to meet with compliance at the bank.   Give me the example of the problem you are having and I might have a suggestion (if you are not just trolling).   It is always better to meet with them BEFORE, because if it gets red flagged your chances of explaining are slim (they are risk adverse when it comes to regs and if you do not meet before you do not have a business account manager saying "this should comply" you only have the bureaucrat.
This is not rocket science.   Anyone who has run a real business would know this.   Anyone who has had a successful business that took credit cards and the business grew so fast that the processor started calling would know this.

Banks are also greedy and highly bureaucratic.  I can't speak for bitfloor but we met with both BofA branch manager and had a phone conference with their compliance department.  After nine months with no issues, not a single complaint or case of fraud they closed our account.  They cited no reason, and indicated that we had no violated any procedure or requirement.  The letter vaguely indicated that the deposit agreement allows them to close any account for any reason at any time.  They offered us no appeal, nor did they indicate that we could have done ANYTHING differently to prevent the closure.  

Off the record I got an admission that some fraud monitoring software scored our account as high risk as part of a quarterly review.  The bank doesn't want account which potentially could be high cost (although we had paid almost $20,000 in banking fees) and kept a $100,000 minimum balance.  The closure was impossible to prevent unless we were much larger ($15M in annualized transactions wasn't big enough).

So your assumption that if you do the right thing everything will be fine is a joke.  Just about every bitcoin related company has had at least one bank account closed.  It is just the nature of the business.  

[DeathAndTaxes]

I do not consider my opinion FUD.   But if that seems to be your best logical argument (name calling) it says a lot more about who you are then who I am). 

I notice you missed all the facts in the post.  Then again you weren't looking for informed responses or facts, you were just looking to slander and make up claims.

[Minor Miner]

Banks are regulated.   They take the risk of having any client launder money VERY seriously.  If you are operating a business that will require a lot of deposits and withdraws each day by MANY different people, you need to meet with compliance at the bank.   Give me the example of the problem you are having and I might have a suggestion (if you are not just trolling).   It is always better to meet with them BEFORE, because if it gets red flagged your chances of explaining are slim (they are risk adverse when it comes to regs and if you do not meet before you do not have a business account manager saying "this should comply" you only have the bureaucrat.
This is not rocket science.   Anyone who has run a real business would know this.   Anyone who has had a successful business that took credit cards and the business grew so fast that the processor started calling would know this.

Banks are also greedy and highly bureaucratic.  I can't speak for bitfloor but we met with both BofA branch manager and had a phone conference with their compliance department.  After nine months with no issues, not a single complaint or case of fraud they closed our account.  They cited no reason, and indicated that we had no violated any procedure or requirement.  The letter vaguely indicated that the deposit agreement allows them to close any account for any reason at any time.  They offered us no appeal, nor did they indicate that we could have done ANYTHING differently to prevent the closure.  

Off the record I got an admission that some fraud monitoring software scored our account as high risk as part of a quarterly review.  The bank doesn't want account which potentially could be high cost (although we had paid almost $20,000 in banking fees) and kept a $100,000 minimum balance.  The closure was impossible to prevent unless we were much larger ($15M in annualized transactions wasn't big enough).

So your assumption that if you do the right thing everything will be fine is a joke.  Just about every bitcoin related company has had at least one bank account closed.  It is just the nature of the business.  

It has NOTHING to do with bitcoin, it has to do with the transactions, you realize that correct?   This is not some plot against bitcoin by super junior personnel at a money center bank, it is about automating their risk of non compliance with regs.   My assumption is not a "joke" as you so eloquently put it because I know.   And, yes your assumption that your transactions and balances are too small to allow you to be covered by a smart person at their bank is correct.  many of these problems that the companies are having are caused by them be under capitalized than anything else.   To trade, or even to be an effective broker you need to commit your own capital constantly to smooth trade for your clients.
incompetence is tantamount to fraud.

[Minor Miner]

I do not consider my opinion FUD.   But if that seems to be your best logical argument (name calling) it says a lot more about who you are then who I am). 

I notice you missed all the facts in the post.  Then again you weren't looking for informed responses or facts, you were just looking to slander and make up claims.

Nice.  Really mature.   It is not much wonder you could not deal with a jr. bank salesperson and a compliance inquiry.   Maybe you will learn something from your foray into business that when you mature will allow you to start a real business that people will admire.   I hope so.  Good Luck to you, now that you have shown me who you are as a person, it will make following your businesses all the more interesting.

[johnblaze]

Lol stfu fool. I am not a "bitfloor apologist"

lol dont get mad. just save it pal. you wouldn't be responding with your 10 paragraph rant defending bitfloor if you weren't.

Also, you don't have to wait 2 weeks. Assuming you already have ACH verified, which is a good measure if you have USD sitting around because NO exchange is 100% safe, you wait 2 days to have it transferred and then 1/2 an hour if you use another exchange/funding service that allows bank deposits, or 2 days if you use an exchange that accepts USPS money order by mail. Your 2 week estimate is only if you (1) didn't have ACH verified at bitfloor, and (2) pick the longest possible funding option for exchanges.

the 2 week estimate is correct for my case, and probably others. i dont have ACH verified in bitfloor. so i have to wait 3 days + backlog to verify, then another 2-3 days for ACH to hit my bank and clear, then another week+? to wire internationally to mtgox? as for btc-e, who knows how to get any money of decent size on there. its nearly impossible, which is why btc-e quotes are routinely $10 off from gox. if bitfloor would've emailed everyone equally or given everyone time to make their decision on how to handle their funds, i could avoid all this and have bought BTC and transferred easily. i dont want USD. i want to trade BTC.

but of course you cherry pick the best possible scenario in order to defend bitfloor. well done.

you're obviously personally taking up this cause, why? how many posts have you made in this thread defending bitfloor? this has nothing to do with you, yet you're the loudest bitfloor defense in here

i already stated that i was very happy with bitfloor. i am not accusing them of theft or fraud or anything. but i am upset that i didn't get equal treatment as other customers. thats a legitimate gripe. while i think it was probably just a random choice to email certain people, theres certainly room for questioning whether there was favoritism involved, as others have already speculated that maybe those who received emails had to do with BTC or USD balances. in financial markets, you cannot pick and choose who gets certain information to trade.. thats a VERY questionable decision. i am not accusing them of manipulation, it was probably an honest mistake. however it is horrible choice that they are responsible for. they do not get a pass for bad decisions.

because of that unequal treatment, now my money is tied up. calm down, step off your defensive pedestal, and actually read what i wrote, and surely you will agree.

[LorenzoMoney]

Got my Bitcoin out to my wallet in time, but Bitfloor owes me a good chunk of US$.
I do hope they honor their debts, and pay all people whom they owe.

If anyone from Bitfloor is reading this, please indicate how and when you are going to resolve problems related to USD that you owe former users.

I'm not really sure what you're talking about, I think that perhaps you misunderstand the situation.
There is no debt, they don't owe anybody anything (in regards to the current situation). There is no problem relating to USD that they owe users (in regards to the current situation). If you have USD in bitfloor, simply ACH it out same as you'd do after you sold coins and wanted the cash.

Let me emphasize: There is no problem relating to USD, there is no debt, there is nobody owing anybody anything. This was made clear in the announcement and the email. You can get your USD out perfectly fine.

However, there is a chance that I misunderstood you, and that you are in fact one of the unfortunate people who had Bitcoins stored in Bitfloor when it was hacked in 2012. In this case, Bitfloor owes you bitcoins not USD, and they have been slowly paying back those who were users at that time and you would already know this, which is why I assumed you misunderstood the situation with the USD. (In this case, you'd be screwed unless Bitfloor resumed operations, since they are paying back those users with current and future trading comissions.) Not to worry, your dollars are safe!

Perhaps you misunderstood. Prior to this (hopefully temporary) shutdown of Bitfloor, I had transferred money through Capital One 360 P2P to Bitfloor. My bank said it was picked up and debited my checking account. Bitfloor did not indicate that the cash had been creditedto my account. Then Bitfloor shutdown, and there was no indication that they had my money. Other US money I had deposited via LocalTill/BoA was posted and I was able to transfer that back to my bank via ACH transfer. But the money I had transferred via Capital One was not in my Bitfloor account despite being debited from my Capital One account. Since I sent them US dollars and they have it and I am not able to get it, it is a debt they owe me.

Without some specific statement from Roman or someone else with the authority from Bitfloor, it would seem my (and others') cash is in limbo. I have not been able to get my money out because it is is limbo somewhere over at Bitfloor or what remains of it.

I make no accusations of fraud. I feel for Roman. I would even return to using Bitfloor if he and his team can solve the bank suspicion of bitcoin business issue. Bitcoin is new territory for us, banks and businesses.  Banks are conservative and (supposed to be, at least traditionally) risk aversive by nature. It makes logical sense why they would find a bitcoin exchange suspicious. Obviously, I/we are not as risk averse, otherwise I would not have ventured into the land of bitcoin.

I do understand that I am probably one of many former Bitfloor users in the very same situation. That is no comfort, though. Having my money back in my checking account [and knowing when that will occur] is the only solution I personally am interested in.

Until Roman or someone else with official authority from Bitfloor makes some, hopefully reassuring statement, the rest of us are merely speculating to relieve anxiety about money with is presently inaccessible and owed to us.

Some definite statement about remedy is owed former users.

[wtfvanity]

So, if you are unverified, we are talking a week + to initiate the transfer? Or are they going to mad dash approve these for withdrawal ?