bitfloor issues?

[dohse]

Incidentally, "We are still waiting to hear back from the bank regarding our remaining account balance" suggests to me that they may have received the check, but that it was for an amount less than they were expecting.

Agreed. I've been trying to make sense of the words chosen for that message. It doesn't say "our account balance", what is the significance of "remaining"? Always more questions than answers.

[FenixRD]

It is quite obvious that there is a very real possibility that we aren't getting our money back ...

It is? Is there some source that supports this? Or is it just a feeling you have? Roman is always ridiculously quiet about everything. Even when the 25kBTC hack happened. I would actually fault him for that quite a bit myself: that's not how you run a business, regardless of what happens.

From the moment we let the money out of our direct control, there's been a very real possibility of not getting it back.  The only question is that of probabilities.  And speaking objectively, the longer it's being held by Bitfloor, the worse that probability gets.  Roman's reputation is the only reason most of us have any hope at all.

n.b. This includes fiat in bank accounts we "control."  Ask people in Cyprus about that.  Haircuts are probably not coming to the US anytime soon, but when it comes to any country, they won't announce it in advance, because that would defeat the whole purpose.  (It can be argued that there is no greater Ponzi scheme than our fractional reserve banking system.)

Hell, even if you stuff your mattress with cash, its "value" is being silently leeched away via inflation.

What I don't understand is how they managed to make the holding (um, "hoarding") of gold illegal in 1933 without a widespread backlash.  The hubris of even considering the action shocks me.  But then, it was the middle of the Great Depression, so I presume most people had better things to worry about, like food and shelter.

...Sometimes I wish I'd never heard of Bitcoin, because what I've learned since is a whole big series of very uncomfortable truths.

Why oh why didn't I take the BLUE pill? :p

Anyway, yes, this exactly, 100% agree.

Also agree with the possible significance of the choice of the word "remaining". Been wondering that too but I figured if I started playing linguistic Sherlock Holmes I'd get smacked by someone. But I concur, it is an interesting choice, such that he may have accidentally gave a clue he didn't intend to -- that perhaps the bank also withheld some funds for some reason? This also did occur after tax day, so is it possible that the IRS locked some funds for whatever reason? (ie, didn't file for gains on bitcoin properly, or something more sinister on the IRS's part maybe.)

[zedicus]

Whats the head count up in hear! How much you guys out?

         Originally i had watched this video and thought maybe just maybe this guy was just in a bad situation that he was trying to make right and its after watching this video that i took a chance on bitfloor ! Now after this second fiasco..

which i barely escaped!! Like i said i pulled out thousands from bitfloor on a hunch or a bad feeling a day or two before the shutdown! call it spider senses or whatever but i was dam lucky! If not i would be in here just the same as you guys in limbo with great concern and an apple like feeling in my throat!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKL5qFP4ZVs&t=7m53s


Thats what bothers me about the second fiasco.. I just keep asking myself really.. thats the actions of the guy in that video??

Unless it was a complete fabrication.. it seems that "that guy" would be doing his best to ease concerns and make sure everyone came out ok.
Thats why im leaning toward lawyers telling him to zip up! Either way.. The wording on the bitfloor site does not make me confident.

Not receiving emails didnt make me confident either.. tho i had less than a dollar left in my account thats not the point! Everyone should have gotten an email notifying them of a potential shutdown and they should have been given ample time to pull funds!

If everyone had gotten the email than i wouldnt have thought nothing of it. But since the emails were selectively sent out and i myself didnt get one, it leaves room in my imagination for something more sinister.. like hey lets just go out of business and walk off with the funds! "We can claim we gave notification"..

That could be far from the truth!! But silence makes ya think about stuff in a dare i say it --- a "360 degree" kinda of way where you try and work out the possibility of whats happening!

I hope for everyone involved including bitfloor and roman and the people who are @ a loss literally and for the rest of the bitcoin community and the onlookers and potential investors and new comers that this works out ok.

I noticed a new exchange opening up its beta.."kraken" and i wonder what the bitfloor fiasco's has done to the potential markets  for new exchanges.

Kind of like what bfl has done to new asic manufacturers .. They are gonna have to go through a kind of scrutiny that may make it difficult at best to venture into bitcoin.







 

[DeathAndTaxes]

What I don't understand is how they managed to make the holding (um, "hoarding") of gold illegal in 1933 without a widespread backlash.  The hubris of even considering the action shocks me.  But then, it was the middle of the Great Depression, so I presume most people had better things to worry about, like food and shelter.

How can they get away with raising taxes only on the "rich" (quotes intentionally because it is always poorly defined) to pay for increased spending which mostly benefits the "non-rich"?  Easy, people are selfish, shortsighted, and greedy.  Modern day career (lifetime) politicians are masters of exploiting those characteristics. 

Most working class people didn't have any significant gold bullion in the early 1900s and if they did they sold it (likely to already insanely rich people) during the depression so they wouldn't starve.  The rich had bigger problems to worry about.  There was serious talk about nationalization of wealth (aka communism) in the 1930s.  Having to sell some coins to Uncle Sam is a small price compared to suddenly all your wealth is owned by "the people".

It would be like the government today saying private jets or residences valued at more than $20,000,000 are prohibited (or slapped with a punitive excessive wealth annual tax).  How much of an uproar would that cause?  Divide and Conquer has been a tool of subjugation for the state for a couple thousand years and it still works just as well today.

[audenx]

Hi everyone,

First, let me say that taking expensive legal action is the last thing I want to do. I want to give Roman and Bitfloor the benefit of the doubt that they're working as hard as possible to return USD funds to affected customers.

However, given the worrying scarcity of communication from Bitfloor about the status of USD balance withdrawals, I'm trying to get organized. If a class action lawsuit becomes the only option for recovering any portion of USD funds owed, someone needs to figure out who has been affected and how much is at stake.

I started a reddit thread to this effect, and as of this morning 102 redditors have reported to me that they're waiting on a total of $337,000. I have collected email addresses from as many of these people as have felt comfortable providing an address, and I am in touch with a few lawyers to figure out what options we all may have if we need to take legal action. I will be providing updates via BCC'ed email to those who have provided me with an address.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1dqz4v/i_have_pmed_15_other_redditors_with_bitfloor/

If you would like to share your current USD balance owed and your email address, I will add you to my list. You can contact me via PM on reddit or PM me here. The more people respond, the more easily we'll be able to attract a good lawyer, because the potential upside for them from the case will be higher.

Again, legal action is NOT what I want to take. Every bit of that legal expense will eat into the amount we hope to recover. But I want to be prepared if that ends up being our only option.

Good luck to everyone hoping to recover funds.

Edit: Arstechnica piece quotes a Bitfloor spokesman as follows:

Bitfloor shares its customers' frustration with its bank's delay in providing access to funds currently in Bitfloor's account. Bitfloor has engaged legal counsel to assist in this matter. Through counsel, Bitfloor is in active dialogue with its bank and is taking all reasonable steps to facilitate the return of funds, consistent with Bitfloor's legal obligations.

Bitfloor regrets this delay, thanks its customers for their patience to date, and appeals to its customers to continue to be patient as Bitfloor works diligently to resolve this situation.

Later, the article was amended and identified the spokesman as Bitfloor attorney John Snyder, who wrote in an email statement:

The bank has not told us why it has delayed making available Bitfloor's U.S. dollar funds, but we are hopeful that this issue will be resolved soon. Bitfloor has sufficient U.S. dollar funds in its accounts to cover all of its customers' U.S. dollar credits on account.

[Dr3AM$cAp3]

Edit: Arstechnica piece quotes an unnamed Bitfloor spokesman as follows:

Bitfloor shares its customers' frustration with its bank's delay in providing access to funds currently in Bitfloor's account. Bitfloor has engaged legal counsel to assist in this matter. Through counsel, Bitfloor is in active dialogue with its bank and is taking all reasonable steps to facilitate the return of funds, consistent with Bitfloor's legal obligations.

Bitfloor regrets this delay, thanks its customers for their patience to date, and appeals to its customers to continue to be patient as Bitfloor works diligently to resolve this situation.

Thank you for this update.   After reviewing the youtube interview, I honestly think Roman has good intentions, but it's always good to have a back-up plan.  I hope they sort this mess out soon.  I'd like to get back into the swing of things. <3 Bitfloor.

[traderjoe]

Edit: Arstechnica piece quotes an unnamed Bitfloor spokesman as follows:

Bitfloor shares its customers' frustration with its bank's delay in providing access to funds currently in Bitfloor's account...

Kind of reminds you of another reason to be interested in Bitcoins in the first place! 

[DataPlumber]

Edit: Arstechnica piece quotes an unnamed Bitfloor spokesman as follows:

Bitfloor shares its customers' frustration with its bank's delay in providing access to funds currently in Bitfloor's account...

Kind of reminds you of another reason to be interested in Bitcoins in the first place! 

Indeed it does.  The people who were notified of the closure quickly bought BTC and got the hell out of there.  Not clear to me why he didn't halt trading the moment he started notifying people.  I had a sell order in for an unreasonably high price at the time, but someone who got notified bought through it, and now I'm stuck with a bunch of USD the banks won't let me touch.

I wouldn't be upset if there hadn't been "favored customer" notification.

[joesmoe2012]

Edit: Arstechnica piece quotes an unnamed Bitfloor spokesman as follows:

Bitfloor shares its customers' frustration with its bank's delay in providing access to funds currently in Bitfloor's account...

Kind of reminds you of another reason to be interested in Bitcoins in the first place! 

Indeed it does.  The people who were notified of the closure quickly bought BTC and got the hell out of there.  Not clear to me why he didn't halt trading the moment he started notifying people.  I had a sell order in for an unreasonably high price at the time, but someone who got notified bought through it, and now I'm stuck with a bunch of USD the banks won't let me touch.

I wouldn't be upset if there hadn't been "favored customer" notification.

I don't think the notification was tp favored customers, but to everyone slowly.

[DataPlumber]

Edit: Arstechnica piece quotes an unnamed Bitfloor spokesman as follows:

Bitfloor shares its customers' frustration with its bank's delay in providing access to funds currently in Bitfloor's account...

Kind of reminds you of another reason to be interested in Bitcoins in the first place! 

Indeed it does.  The people who were notified of the closure quickly bought BTC and got the hell out of there.  Not clear to me why he didn't halt trading the moment he started notifying people.  I had a sell order in for an unreasonably high price at the time, but someone who got notified bought through it, and now I'm stuck with a bunch of USD the banks won't let me touch.

I wouldn't be upset if there hadn't been "favored customer" notification.

I don't think the notification was tp favored customers, but to everyone slowly.

Must have been really slow, I still haven't gotten any notification.

[joesmoe2012]

I think once the market became illiquid he stopped notifying.

Best of luck to everyone in recovering their assets though.

[audenx]

Must have been really slow, I still haven't gotten any notification.

Same here. I've also never received any email response to the 3 support emails I've sent to Bitfloor in the last 3 weeks.

[SpottedMarley]

They have obviously decided that the less we know, the better it is for them.

[Dr3AM$cAp3]

Must have been really slow, I still haven't gotten any notification.

Same here. I've also never received any email response to the 3 support emails I've sent to Bitfloor in the last 3 weeks.

They have obviously decided that the less we know, the better it is for them.

Damnit!  Quit fucking with my optimism, reminding me of factual things and negative probabilities.  I really want to like Roman.  *Head. Sand. Now.* :/  

[SpottedMarley]

Damnit!  Quit fucking with my optimism, reminding me of factual things and negative probabilities.  I really want to like Roman.  *Head. Sand. Now.* :/  

Im sorry. I'm actually still very optimistic because the alternative is to.. not be.

But I do, also, keep reminding myself of the facts. I really can't help that part.

[audenx]

Damnit!  Quit fucking with my optimism, reminding me of factual things and negative probabilities.  I really want to like Roman.  *Head. Sand. Now.* :/  

Im sorry. I'm actually still very optimistic because the alternative is to.. not be.

But I do, also, keep reminding myself of the facts. I really can't help that part.

I'm working on tracking the few available facts for all the people who sent me their email addresses through bitcointalk and reddit. In case you're not on the list, here's the first of those emails.

[Rassah]

Well, maybe if you all sue Bitfloor LLC, Bitcloor will be able to turn around and sue CapitalOne for damages due to having their account shut down, too. Though they could probably already do that...

[joesmoe2012]

I'd give them a little more time to right things before filing suit.

[Rassah]

I'd give them a little more time to right things before filing suit.

I would too, if only because suing an LLC will likely result in nothing happening.

[audenx]

I'd give them a little more time to right things before filing suit.

I would too, if only because suing an LLC will likely result in nothing happening.

Just so there's no misunderstanding, and in case someone reading this didn't read my full email update — my opinion right now based on all the available, credible information and the lawyers I've been in touch with is that it is still reasonable to be cautiously optimistic. We would be wise to avoid starting any legal proceedings prematurely. If any ONE of us decides to start a class action lawsuit and it turns out that Bitfloor was close to recovering and returning the funds, that will shoot us ALL in the collective foot and lose us all a lot of money unnecessarily.

So please don't consider me to be rabble-rousing. I do NOT want a lawsuit. I'm just trying to be organized, considering that so many people are affected, and all I want is to see everyone's funds returned, mine included.