bitfloor issues?

[josh_nc]

Here's my email to Roman a minute ago:

Roman:

Here it goes. You don't like to be bothered in your personal Twitter
account so I am writing to your personal email account. I have waited
patiently so far but it is now your turn to provide some clarity to your
customers instead of leaving everyone hanging with no explanation and no
idea of what is going on. This is unprofessional and unacceptable. Get
your act together and keep the info coming so people don't get anxious
for no reason. There is a lot of money involved here!

If you decide to ignore this email my next step will be to try and reach
you at your personal twitter account. I am trying to respect your
privacy. Respect my wishes as well.

[josh_nc]

That was quick! We should all wait for his new posting today.

Here's his reply:

--------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: Re: An update on bitfloor is due!
From:    "Roman Shtylman" <shtylman@gmail.com>
Date:    Mon, May 13, 2013 12:45 pm
To:      XXXXXXXX
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am working on an update to post today. I can assure you that the
situation is being worked on.

cheers,
~Roman

[FenixRD]

I know it would be nice to have a little bit more information from him regarding what's going on, but what will harassing him achieve? Is he not aware that people want to know what's going on?

As far as I know you are the first person to bring up harassment. I would not recommend using his contact info for that purpose. Use it to contact him about your losses.

My entire point and premise is that by posting such information you are encouraging (I think purposefully, but thoughtlessly through ignorance is a fine explanation as well) harassment to occur, beyond simple inquiries (still pointless since he isn't off-grid and has indicated he will only respond when he has new info). I referred to it as "doxxing" because in the same spirit that doxxing occurs on /i/, there is a targeted outcome, which is only one of two possible ones. On the /i/ of old, it could be met with pursuit, or the classic "not your personal army" if it didn't mesh with enough of a following. But that didn't stop a few unruly viewers from starting the attack anyway.

This is me saying, "Bitcointalk is not your personal army" based on the fact that I do not believe that it makes logical or ethical sense to team up to harass (or "contact" as you euphemistically have rephrased it) Roman at this stage of the game.

I believe there is more that sufficient evidence to conclude that (1) Roman likely did not do anything wrong other than be unprepared for the bank to handle things this way, and (2) his lawyer has buttoned him up from making any more Twitter promises until things are more clear. Not complying with (2) loses you your lawyer, BTW, in short order. So what would you have him do?

Show me evidence he is trying to skip town, and by that I mean to a different country with a new identity, and I may become more concerned. (And I'm not exactly out chump change here, either.) Until then, your irrational behavior threatens my odds at recovering my assets and everyone else on this forum who has claim to any. Let's say you do goad him into making a bad promise on an email or a tweet, or giving out info that he maybe believes now and becomes false? That opens him up to more civil liability, the likelihood of his lawyer stepping down, and we're all in a worse position than we are now.

I note you are changing your tack a bit -- I say this less to point out that you are "changing tack" as a bad thing and more that, regardless of why, I approve of attempting to politely make contact, and if he requests you desist (which he appears to do on his personal accounts), if you are governed by US law at least (as is Shtylman and Bitfloor LLC), continued harassment actually does become illegal. This is partly due to the US law that currently delineates an LLC or a Corp or a few other things as legally separate identities. I say THIS not because I necessarily have an opinion one way or the other on the need for such laws, or any laws for that matter, but only because like it or not that is the boat upon which we are riding currently.

[SpottedMarley]

My entire point and premise is that by posting such information you are encouraging (I think purposefully, but thoughtlessly through ignorance is a fine explanation as well) harassment to occur, beyond simple inquiries (still pointless since he isn't off-grid and has indicated he will only respond when he has new info). I referred to it as "doxxing" because in the same spirit that doxxing occurs on /i/, there is a targeted outcome, which is only one of two possible ones. On the /i/ of old, it could be met with pursuit, or the classic "not your personal army" if it didn't mesh with enough of a following. But that didn't stop a few unruly viewers from starting the attack anyway.

This is me saying, "Bitcointalk is not your personal army" based on the fact that I do not believe that it makes logical or ethical sense to team up to harass (or "contact" as you euphemistically have rephrased it) Roman at this stage of the game.

I believe there is more that sufficient evidence to conclude that (1) Roman likely did not do anything wrong other than be unprepared for the bank to handle things this way, and (2) his lawyer has buttoned him up from making any more Twitter promises until things are more clear. Not complying with (2) loses you your lawyer, BTW, in short order. So what would you have him do?

Show me evidence he is trying to skip town, and by that I mean to a different country with a new identity, and I may become more concerned. (And I'm not exactly out chump change here, either.) Until then, your irrational behavior threatens my odds at recovering my assets and everyone else on this forum who has claim to any. Let's say you do goad him into making a bad promise on an email or a tweet, or giving out info that he maybe believes now and becomes false? That opens him up to more civil liability, the likelihood of his lawyer stepping down, and we're all in a worse position than we are now.

I note you are changing your tack a bit -- I say this less to point out that you are "changing tack" as a bad thing and more that, regardless of why, I approve of attempting to politely make contact, and if he requests you desist (which he appears to do on his personal accounts), if you are governed by US law at least (as is Shtylman and Bitfloor LLC), continued harassment actually does become illegal. This is partly due to the US law that currently delineates an LLC or a Corp or a few other things as legally separate identities. I say THIS not because I necessarily have an opinion one way or the other on the need for such laws, or any laws for that matter, but only because like it or not that is the boat upon which we are riding currently.

And my entire point is that I don't care what your entire point is. You are completely lame and fearful.. your insight is that of a frightened little girl, what use is that? None.

But yes, please, by all means.. do nothing. Sit patiently by and sing songs of hope.

[FenixRD]

If you think for one second that I give even the slightest shit about showing consideration for Roman Shtylman's personal security and/or privacy then you are most powerfully mistaken.

I know it would be nice to have a little bit more information from him regarding what's going on, but what will harassing him achieve? Is he not aware that people want to know what's going on?

As far as I know you are the first person to bring up harassment. I would not recommend using his contact info for that purpose. Use it to contact him about your losses.

It is even worse to see his twitter account continue activity like bitfloor never existed...

Whats his regular twitter username?

nevermind .. found it:

(Bunch of dox removed because I'm not a child)

Reporting this under the assumption that doxxing anyone without at least a scammer tag is against forum TOS. Suggest you remove it and replace with at the very least, "PM me for Roman's personal twitter etc if you want to try to reach him that way -- which he has shown he doesn't appreciate." (See below)

First, saying his personal twitter is active as if Bitfloor never happened is disingenuous at best:

"7 May —
Why the fuck don't banks just let me enter a destination routing and account number to send funds to my friends?"

There is more too. Anyway, individuals reaching out to him on there have been rightfully met with "leave my personal accounts out of this". Seeing as legally speaking, Bitfloor LLC is considered an identity to itself, and the allowed anonymity of Bitcoin, we should frankly consider ourselves quite lucky that we have an individual to seek reparations from, and that he allowed us this courtesy voluntarily, and we shouldn't shit on his home's front lawn when it is his corporate identity with which we are upset.

Dude earlier is almost certainly right: silence on corp twitter etc is by lawyer's advice/insistence in case something goes to shit. As has been pointed out, a class action would guarantee we all see only fractions of actual losses. So, cool your tits for a bit. One or two people politely reaching out is one thing. Doxxing the most open member who owes money on this forum is retarded. How about you go research Pireateat40? We could use his dox for real. Roman's true identity is known and associated legally and socially with Bitfloor. Harassing him is not going to make things happen faster.

/rant

Aaaand, I'm giving you the coveted Ignore, because I don't fan flame wars, and because you offer nothing of value for me to read.

[josh_nc]

Both of you chill! Please read the new postings before ranting like lunatics!
Roman is posting an update on bitfloor.com after my email to him earlier.

[FenixRD]

Both of you chill! Please read the new postings before ranting like lunatics!
Roman is posting an update on bitfloor.com after my email to him earlier.

Thank you for behaving civilly and wearing your pants where they belong and not your head. I'd like to hope he was posting an update anyway, as he implies, but regardless you've done no harm. This isn't about "fear" or whatever, this is about ethics. It is ethically wrong to aggress Roman based on current conditions and evidence. (That is to say, there is insufficient -- none AFAIK -- evidence to conclude that he is attempting to defraud and thereby commit an act of aggression/coercion against us; therefore, all indicators are that harassing contact cannot be construed as self-defense rather than the initial act of agression.) Conveniently, I also believe it is nonproductive and possibly counterproductive to aggress Roman at this point. My concern is that not all will be as tactful, or singular in their contact. Hope that makes some form of sense.

[joesmoe2012]

All of the info I posted can be gotten directly from his Twitter page. I have simply shortened the route to getting there.

If you think for one second that I give even the slightest shit about showing consideration for Roman Shtylman's personal security and/or privacy then you are most powerfully mistaken.

People who are owed money by this dead beat deserve to know how to contact him.

So yeah, all your doxxing panty spoiling is your own, sorry.

Dox who you like, but in this forum we have rules, providing info like that isn't allowed.

Go elsewhere and behave how ya like, but if you want to be apart of the community here, stop cussing like a drunk 16 year old, and ont break privacy rules, that's something that should be taken very seriously everywhere.

[joesmoe2012]

If you send an email to a gmail address there will be a permanent record of that email stored on their servers including if/when it was marked as read. I think the wise thing to be doing right now if you are a Bitfloor victim and you intend to get your money back from Roman Shtylman is you should be getting as much evidence as you can that you are trying all possible avenues and that Roman Shtylman is refusing to communicate with you.

Strive to make contact. Document all attempts.

Again, this only pertains to people who give a shit and want to be pro-active.

If you're ok with just waiting for your hopes and dreams to come true, that's cool too.

You obviously have no idea what your talking about. Sending an email to a gmail account creates no court useable record. There's no way to prove who actually read the email. Also good luck requesting records from google in court. They have lawyers, lawyers, lawyers, and then even some more lawyers.

I do agree to document absolutely everything. You are correct there.

I also agree with being proactive but not in an immature way.

Also you have some trouble trying to do anything in court against roman as he's not American.

So as many have discussed before, maybe better to research, document, and lightly attempt contact right now. If. Your going to file suit or whatever else, any lawyer would tell you to not talk about it and just do it.

[josh_nc]

Ego opposes happiness... Please try and get a copy of the Dalai Lama's small and powerful but inexpensive "Book of Transformation". It may be of use to you. It certainly has been to me.

[josh_nc]

Here:  http://tinyurl.com/d4hb936

Only $5.45 used! A bargain for what it may lead you in life!

[joesmoe2012]

Here:  http://tinyurl.com/d4hb936

Only $5.45 used! A bargain for what it may lead you in life!

Maybe Romans busy reading his copy

[Rassah]

Also you have some trouble trying to do anything in court against roman as he's not American.

Source? I am fairly certain he is American, and living just a few hours north of me...

[joesmoe2012]

Also you have some trouble trying to do anything in court against roman as he's not American.

Source? I am fairly certain he is American, and living just a few hours north of me...

Sorry you are correct, in which case it should be actionable.

[laserwolf]

a lot of people are really angry about this situation. and you guys here saying "Oh no don't email Roman again, it might break him!"

[josh_nc]

Please read a couple of my postings above from earlier today with my email to Roman AND his quick reply. He wrote he will be posting an update today (check bitfloor.com by the end of the day) with assurances that everything is being taken care of. We need to wait for that update. I am hoping he will explain what is going on and give us some sort of timeline.

[Rassah]

a lot of people are really angry about this situation. and you guys here saying "Oh no don't email Roman again, it might break him!"

I'm pretty pissed about this situation, too, but all I'm saying is, if Roman isn't talking, yelling at him or flooding him with e-mail won't prompt him to talk either. And if he has a lawyer and he is protected by an LLC, then you likely won't get much with legal threats, either.

Actually, if you are concerned about him holding your USD, and you sue him, instead of getting your USD back, all the USD he holds might get divided between the USD he owes from the recent bank closing and the BTC he still owes from the September hack. Since the BTC is a much bigger value, your USD portion may be tiny compared to what the BTC people get. (Disclosure: He owes me a lot of BTC, so this would actually be a better outcome for me).

So all I'm saying is, look at it from his point of view. If your business had its bank account closed, and you didn't feel like talking (I know you would keep people informed, as would I, but pretend you didn't want to or were advised not to), what would your reaction be to e-mail complaints and/or threats? Would they motivate you to be more open? Hopefully, Roman is a professional business type, and can just ignore them instead of taking any of them personally.

[wtfvanity]

There is an updated posted on their website and twitter.

2013.05.13

We have received the check and are working on a way to start returning funds. We do not yet have an ETA, but understand everyone is anxious to get their money back and we are trying to make that happen as quickly as possible.

That is from their website.

[xxyyzz]

My ACH(direct deposit) has been under review for nearly 3 weeks and it seems no one in Bitfloor is actually going to review it. Does anyone have similar problem?

[FenixRD]

My ACH(direct deposit) has been under review for nearly 3 weeks and it seems no one in Bitfloor is actually going to review it. Does anyone have similar problem?

Strictly speaking, if we assume he has been honest thus far, we all are under this problem. The issue would be with establishing the right AML etc. paperwork with a new bank. You just never had it before, either, so it shows up as pending verification or whatever. Naturally, given current circumstances, it wouldn't be worth his time to change all of our statuses to unverified probably, since it's all semantics at this point...

Anyway, if you work under the assumption he is not hiding something critical to this issue, yes, this could be considered "normal" at present, as ironic as such a statement sounds...