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Author Topic: Why people are still buying BTC?  (Read 12737 times)
naphto
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April 19, 2013, 08:04:15 PM
 #1

Hello guys,

To me, it seems pretty strange that people actually continues buying btc now...
I understood why they wanted to invest in btc before, after the Chyprus crisis, and all the articles in the media. But now?

I don't get it.


Bitcoin is useless, and will most likely never be used as a currency. I spent hours trying to get my first bitcoins (satoshi actually), and after working for ages, I only got 0.002 btc, which does not even allow me to proceed to a transaction (the fees are higherthan that amount  Roll Eyes ). When you compare it with CC or paypal, it seems that they are free to use in comparison! Not to mention the time required to actually proceed to a transaction which can be anything between 1 minute and ... 1 year (or more?).

The only possible reason I see people are buying btc is that they (truly) believe that the price will increase, and want to make more profit. I think that 99.99 % of the bitcoins exchanged are never withdrawn from the exchangers, and the people are only waiting to make some profits. What makes them believe that the price will rise? Because the amount of bitcoins is limited? Because lost coins can never be recovered? I have no clue.


An other problem is the "mining" part. Soon, the difficulty will increase, CPU and GPU mining will be useless. People will stop mining bitcoins and try LTC or something easy to get... The interest in btc will decrease.


Other issues:
- security. Not a single company was able to provide a "professional" service. Bitcoin-24 has a serious problem ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=174600.0 ). Even mtgox was critized for the lags, problems with missing coins, money, delay, and so on ... The hacks are countless (you can see new topics about that every day ...).


I can't see anything positive about btc, and still can't get why people are buying it. Can any captain obvious explains? Thanks.
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April 19, 2013, 08:08:00 PM
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People are invested in bitcoin in many ways.
They see good reasons to stick with it and most of them are thinking long term.
Things crash from time to time, it doesnt mean they are dead.
And besides that profit isn't the main focus for most of the old dogs of bitcoin.
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April 19, 2013, 08:11:24 PM
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...

You clearly don't understand bitcoin. Please study.
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April 19, 2013, 08:15:48 PM
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I spent hours trying to get my first bitcoins (satoshi actually), and after working for ages, I only got 0.002 btc,

Why on earth did you waste those hours?

Is this how you earn govt currency as well, or do you suppose there's a better way?

Please tell me you don't think bitcoin is useless because you can't make a decent Bitcoin income looking at advertising sites.

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April 19, 2013, 08:20:28 PM
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Strange, I always thought the word 'never' meant past, present, and future. Since I've already used bitcoin as a currency to purchase coffee, food, honey, silver, and gold I do have to wonder where you got your definition of 'never' from. If we're lucky and want bitcoin to succeed then we should hope for bitcoin to 'never again' be used as a speculative tool since that is what leads to the volatility that you mentioned in a sideways manner by referring to price increases.

Gee, sounds like you tried to mine with your CPU or something. Strangely enough I invested in several video cards and the value of the items I've bought using bitcoin as a currency (there goes your never again) exceeds the money I spent on GPUs by a factor of 3 or 4 already and they're still mining. They don't make as much now but I get as much in a single block on Slush's pool as you claimed to get in a couple of hours. I guess you never actually researched how you should mine or decided you could make BTC on advertising sites.

As a previous poster mentioned, you seem to have a serious lack of a grasp on bitcoin as a concept and on how to mine it, please study up on it before making ridiculous blanket statements like you've done here.

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April 19, 2013, 08:21:48 PM
 #6

Hello guys,

To me, it seems pretty strange that people actually continues buying btc now...
I understood why they wanted to invest in btc before, after the Chyprus crisis, and all the articles in the media. But now?

I don't get it.


Bitcoin is useless, and will most likely never be used as a currency. I spent hours trying to get my first bitcoins (satoshi actually), and after working for ages, I only got 0.002 btc, which does not even allow me to proceed to a transaction (the fees are higherthan that amount  Roll Eyes ). When you compare it with CC or paypal, it seems that they are free to use in comparison! Not to mention the time required to actually proceed to a transaction which can be anything between 1 minute and ... 1 year (or more?).

The only possible reason I see people are buying btc is that they (truly) believe that the price will increase, and want to make more profit. I think that 99.99 % of the bitcoins exchanged are never withdrawn from the exchangers, and the people are only waiting to make some profits. What makes them believe that the price will rise? Because the amount of bitcoins is limited? Because lost coins can never be recovered? I have no clue.


An other problem is the "mining" part. Soon, the difficulty will increase, CPU and GPU mining will be useless. People will stop mining bitcoins and try LTC or something easy to get... The interest in btc will decrease.


Other issues:
- security. Not a single company was able to provide a "professional" service. Bitcoin-24 has a serious problem ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=174600.0 ). Even mtgox was critized for the lags, problems with missing coins, money, delay, and so on ... The hacks are countless (you can see new topics about that every day ...).


I can't see anything positive about btc, and still can't get why people are buying it. Can any captain obvious explains? Thanks.

It's being used as a currency all over the place. The list of merchants that accept bitcoins as payment grows by leaps and bounds daily. Transactions are typically verified in not more than 10 minutes, and become computationally harder to counterfeit or reverse as time goes on. You can buy bitcoins right now on any of the exchanges, and it's fairly painless. I bought about 20 BTC back when they were $13 dollars a piece, and cashed on during the initial rise to 90. Then I picked up more cheap ones at 75, and I'm holding onto them. Why would I do that? Because I made a bunch of money! Difficulty increases BECAUSE more people are mining. If people stop mining, difficulty decreases, and mining becomes more profitable. And there are PLENTY of companies that have not been compromised. Companies being compromised doesn't present a problem with bitcoin itself, it presents a problem with the companies who are getting hacked, and their lack of security.

It short, you basically got every argument completely wrong.


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Jutarul
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April 19, 2013, 08:23:58 PM
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I can't see anything positive about btc, and still can't get why people are buying it. Can any captain obvious explains? Thanks.
Trying to find the forrest and all you can see is trees?

To understand why bitcoin is useful you have to master a few disciplines and get some perspective. Here's a recent comment I made which partly fits your question: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=180297.msg1887433#msg1887433

It basically boils down to bitcoin solving a few niche problems, and it will go from there. Here are some:
1) wealth confiscation and reduced/no counter-party risk (brainwallets and free market valuation)
2) quasi-instant trade settlement (no delivery games)
3) financial privacy (user adjustable)
4) batteries included (payment processing)
5) separation of power (money supply governance, miners vs. users)

like any asset class, bitcoin is subject to valuation, which ideally is determined by supply/demand on a free market. Determining the "fair" market value of a bitcoin is the challenge of 2013 and the years to come - it requires a solid foundation for market making.

Hence bitcoin will not solve ONE BIG problem - it will solve many small ones. And by that it will gain stability in valuation. However, look out for alternative coins, as they may try to improve upon particular points and settle for one niche. However, buyer beware - many alternative coins don't improve upon anything and are just .... redundant.

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April 19, 2013, 08:27:27 PM
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I can't see anything positive about btc, and still can't get why people are buying it. Can any captain obvious explains? Thanks.

Bitcoins use as a 'currency' has been steadily growing in various sectors, Silk road perhaps being amongst the most notable. However, the price that this relatively miniscule transaction activity would support, I would imagine to be still very much in single digit territory. Needless to say, the humoungous double and triple digit prices have come about as a result of speculation/manipulation, and lets face it, everyone here has had an opportunity to greatly enrich themselves thanks to this, and who doesnt want a slice of that action?

My personal opinion is that most on here (the plankton or at best, the tadpoles of the Bitcoin ecosystem), are still buying because they are fkn stupid and are blinded by thier own greed/optimism as to the strong probability of much lower prices in the months ahead. However, having said that, with all the volatility, even now there is still plenty opportunity for nice profits to be made, and who doesnt want to make profits?

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April 19, 2013, 08:27:33 PM
 #9

This should be in speculation, not in the main category.  

Feels free to move it.

"Bitcoin is useless"

Then go somewhere else... ?
Why?

"will most likely never be used as a currency"
It is DEFINITELY used as a currency on Silk Road and will probably continue to be adopted by others over time.  

So, all the supply is based on buying drugs?
Isn't it over estimated as fuck?



People are invested in bitcoin in many ways.
They see good reasons to stick with it and most of them are thinking long term.
Things crash from time to time, it doesnt mean they are dead.
And besides that profit isn't the main focus for most of the old dogs of bitcoin.

Even thinking long term, I can't get what makes them believe that the value of 1 btc is more than 1 euro ...
Of course, the price of 1 btc is what people are willing to pay for it, but there should be some guarantees.
For instance, if a lot of companies were accepting btc, if btc was almost flawless (instant payment, lower fees, no security problems), I could understand that it would appear "safe" or "reassuring", which is obviously not the case.

...

You clearly don't understand bitcoin. Please study.

Feel free to explain.

I spent hours trying to get my first bitcoins (satoshi actually), and after working for ages, I only got 0.002 btc,

Why on earth did you waste those hours?

Is this how you earn govt currency as well, or do you suppose there's a better way?

Please tell me you don't think bitcoin is useless because you can't make a decent Bitcoin income looking at advertising sites.

When you pay something with your credit card or paypal, the fees are either negligible or acceptable.
When you pay something with btc, they are repulsive.

When you pay something with your credit card or paypal, you got it immediatly.
When you pay something with btc, you have to wait.

It has nothing to do with me wasting time (I stopped) for getting 0.00000001 btc.


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April 19, 2013, 08:29:58 PM
 #10

OP: you are forgetting: it's fun. there's a lot of people that love the idea of an internet currency. it's very fun. that alone makes it worth something. it's rare. people still seek old baseball cards. etc, etc, think outside the box!
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April 19, 2013, 08:32:26 PM
 #11

A counter question:

Why some people are keep coming here when they don't appreciate the idea of BTC?

I understand that at the moment it's not for everyone, but it's still in "beta" and at the beginning of wider adoption.
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April 19, 2013, 08:34:01 PM
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Different people have different preferences. Just like how some people prefer to use cash when dealing, some prefer debit card, some credit card and etc. Each method have their advantages and disadvantages, but people still use them. Same argument for bitcoins.
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April 19, 2013, 08:35:48 PM
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Strange, I always thought the word 'never' meant past, present, and future. Since I've already used bitcoin as a currency to purchase coffee, food, honey, silver, and gold I do have to wonder where you got your definition of 'never' from. If we're lucky and want bitcoin to succeed then we should hope for bitcoin to 'never again' be used as a speculative tool since that is what leads to the volatility that you mentioned in a sideways manner by referring to price increases.

Gee, sounds like you tried to mine with your CPU or something. Strangely enough I invested in several video cards and the value of the items I've bought using bitcoin as a currency (there goes your never again) exceeds the money I spent on GPUs by a factor of 3 or 4 already and they're still mining. They don't make as much now but I get as much in a single block on Slush's pool as you claimed to get in a couple of hours. I guess you never actually researched how you should mine or decided you could make BTC on advertising sites.

As a previous poster mentioned, you seem to have a serious lack of a grasp on bitcoin as a concept and on how to mine it, please study up on it before making ridiculous blanket statements like you've done here.

Thralen

No, I never tried to mine btc actually. And will never do.
I used that kind of websites: http://dailybitcoins.org/

I understand exactly how bitcoins works, how mining works ...
What I don't understand is why the price is so high (~ 90 euros). It does not make sense to me.

So, make it simple: what makes that high price? High supply.
Where did it come from? And why?



like any asset class, bitcoin is subject to valuation, which ideally is determined by supply/demand on a free market. Determining the "fair" market value of a bitcoin is the challenge of 2013 and the years to come - it requires a solid foundation for market making.

That's my point.
How many coins are lost (1 million out of 11 million or 10 million out of 11 million?)?
What created so much supply after the recent crash. I can't see any improvement in:
- transaction delay.
- transaction fee.
- security.

Which are the main keys to me...


My personal opinion is that most on here (the plankton or at best, the tadpoles of the Bitcoin ecosystem), are still buying because they are fkn stupid and are blinded by thier own greed/optimism as to the strong probability of much lower prices in the months ahead. However, having said that, with all the volatility, even now there is still plenty opportunity for nice profits to be made, and who doesnt want to make profits?

Everyone wants to make profit, but should be careful with involved risks. They are kinda high at the moment.
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April 19, 2013, 08:46:29 PM
 #14

That's my point.
How many coins are lost (1 million out of 11 million or 10 million out of 11 million?)?
What created so much supply after the recent crash. I can't see any improvement in:
- transaction delay.
- transaction fee.
- security.

Which are the main keys to me...
The consensus model used by bitcoin prevents it from competing on
1) transaction delay
2) transaction fee for microtransactions

Use other means if you need quick payments and small percentage fees. However, there will be services on top of bitcoin, which allow you to do bitcoin-denominated transactions without going through the blockchain (a business model coinbase.com is working on, e.g. by providing user-user account transfers).

Regarding 3) security you have to distinguish between service providers and the security of the asset. As long as people depend on settling their final trade in some fiat currency, they will be subject to (in-)securities of the services operating at the interface. However, there are already plenty of things which do not require that step - with time, as merchants start to keep their earnings in bitcoins, this problem will fade away.

I think you're suffering from lack of imagination. Like people didn't know what the internet could be used for in the 90's. In hindsight it was obvious.

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April 19, 2013, 08:52:51 PM
 #15

I'm normally quite bad at spotting an obvious troll but...this is one.

Right?

I tweet crypto nonsense: https://twitter.com/DunningKruger_
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April 19, 2013, 09:02:10 PM
 #16

The consensus model used by bitcoin prevents it from competing on
1) transaction delay
2) transaction fee for microtransactions

Use other means if you need quick payments and small percentage fees. However, there will be services on top of bitcoin, which allow you to do bitcoin-denominated transactions without going through the blockchain (a business model coinbase.com is working on, e.g. by providing user-user account transfers).

Regarding 3) security you have to distinguish between service providers and the security of the asset. As long as people depend on settling their final trade in some fiat currency, they will be subject to (in-)securities of the services operating at the interface. However, there are already plenty of things which do not require that step - with time, as merchants start to keep their earnings in bitcoins, this problem will fade away.

I think you're suffering from lack of imagination. Like people didn't know what the internet could be used for in the 90's. In hindsight it was obvious.


I might be lacking imagination but still can't understand what makes you that over confident. You can't compare btc and internet...
Still reading hundreds of posts in this section, and can't configure out why people are still buying above 1 euro (which is according to me, something like a "fair price").

Is it possible to actually trade btc? (I mean sell btc before actually buying it)
If not, it might explains why people are keeping buying atm.


I'm normally quite bad at spotting an obvious troll but...this is one.

Right?


Feel free to gtfo.
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April 19, 2013, 09:02:54 PM
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No, I never tried to mine btc actually. And will never do.
I used that kind of websites: http://dailybitcoins.org/

I understand exactly how bitcoins works, how mining works ...
What I don't understand is why the price is so high (~ 90 euros). It does not make sense to me.

So, make it simple: what makes that high price? High supply.
Where did it come from? And why?


Quite simple, if you had read my entire other reply. The price is so high due to speculation. People thinking they can make a quick buck (or euro) off of it. Bitcoin certainly deserves a higher exchange rate than the 1 euro to 1 btc conversion you suggested earlier. After all, we know that there will never be more than 21 million BTC however the ECB and the federal reserve both create (and dump into their respective economies) more than 21 million units of their respective currencies in a single day on average.

So your idea of a 1 euro to 1 btc equivalency would mean that BTC was constantly losing purchasing power. Why tie it down that way, just to make things more convenient for you? While we're at it, if we're going to do that, why don't you make a grand statement that 1 oz of silver is worth 1 euro and 1 oz gold worth 10 euros. See how much you can purchase at those prices.

The price BTC should be at would be discovered by 'price discovery' which is what people are willing to set the value at. This soars when people try to abuse the system to make quick buck.
The price BTC is at is due to speculation, from people who don't care about the cryptocurrency itself and (much like it sounds you feel) just want to be able to make some money off of it.

Now do you understand why the price is so high? Because that is where the speculators have driven it. There is no high supply of BTC, so I don't understand that part of your question. If you don't understand now, kindly go read up on economic theory and then re-read the answers in this thread and perhaps you'll understand then.

Thralen

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April 19, 2013, 09:04:48 PM
 #18

I'm normally quite bad at spotting an obvious troll but...this is one.

Right?
Yes.
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April 19, 2013, 09:10:00 PM
 #19

so stay under PRIVATE banks rules, go away from bitcoin  Wink
free choice.
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April 19, 2013, 09:13:30 PM
 #20

"Bitcoin is useless"

Then go somewhere else... ?
Why?


Look up at the name of the website you are using: bitcointalk.org

If you have no use for bitcoins, then maybe you should ask yourself why you are here on a bitcoin site? Trolling perhaps?

Could you go into a bit more detail what you were spending hours on that gave you such a low return? Then you should ask yourself what you did to get any dollars you have? Maybe you could do the same thing in exchange for some bitcoins?

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