[Group Buy] Avalon ASIC Chips (SebastianJu) Batch 6 ordered (Closed)

[jlsminingcorp]

I personally would vote for a refund, but only if i knew i could get some of the assembly fees back as well.
I'd feel shitty asking for an assembler to refund all my money, they are innocent bystanders in all of this and have likely spent money on boards, equipment etc.

Burnin explicitly said he has spent money from his orders on parts and preparing to assembly so refunds are not possible. That is the factor, anyone already paid for assembly will certainly vote no on refund.

Yes, true, but many people will do this out of respect for burnin as well as for financial reasons I think.

[lemonte]

i am not very technical, but does anyone know if Burnin's boards would work with any of the 2nd gen chips? That would be a 3rd option, I might be chatting nonsense here, again, I know little about electronics.

[jlsminingcorp]

i am not very technical, but does anyone know if Burnin's boards would work with any of the 2nd gen chips? That would be a 3rd option, I might be chatting nonsense here, again, I know little about electronics.

I believe (my very limited EE experience comes entirely from the experts on this forum ) that there are similarities between the Avalon and Bitfury chips. Burnin mentioned at least once in his thread that he could, and probably would, design a bitfury board when the Avalon stuff is done. I'm sure there are many elements of his current design that might be re-used, but I would be very surprised if a straight swap of Avalon for bitfury chips would be possible.

If you're talking about Avalon's 2nd/3rd gen chips then you have to be fking mad (no offence intended, it's just an expression). We need to vote with our BTC and buy from companies we can trust.

[lemonte]

Hahaha, unless we were offered the ability to "trade in" our generation 1 chips in return for very heavily discounted generation 2, I would not touch Avalon again with a barge pole!

[jlsminingcorp]

Hahaha, unless we were offered the ability to "trade in" our generation 1 chips in return for very heavily discounted generation 2, I would not touch Avalon again with a barge pole!

I thought so, but you can never be sure. If they wave enough promises of gold in front of people's noses many will follow.

[Its About Sharing]

Thanks for the post Itod.

I am in batch 6 and will go through with it. I don't want to put Sebastian or Burnin out as they did nothing wrong. The culprit here (unless there were really some Mafia stuff involved) is Yifu and/or Avalon.
The story needs to be put together and the guilty party(ies) identified. Lots of money here, so I'm sure that will happen.

What is the consensus on what happened? (I haven't gone through other threads).

Thanks,
IAS

[SebastianJu]

I personally would vote for a refund, but only if i knew i could get some of the assembly fees back as well.
I'd feel shitty asking for an assembler to refund all my money, they are innocent bystanders in all of this and have likely spent money on boards, equipment etc.

Burnin stated that he will do refunds in his possibilities, that means he cant pay back money he used for buying parts from.

Regarding refunds... the chips are still fine in my opinion regarding mining income. Even though the difficulty is rising 75% each month... oO
If it comes to the point that Yifu offers refund, im not sure he will, because he could throw away his chips then most probably, its probably the case that some members want to refund and some not. Since we have 5 own batches it might be possible to split it through the batches. Only a thought since refund isnt on topic yet.

[tiros]

I don't believe Yifu will offer refund option, as it is against terms of sales they posted.

http://store.avalon-asics.com/?page_id=9605
6. made to order from TSMC foundry, this also means no refunds.

I also think chips are still fine in terms of ROI, and this delay was something we could expect.
So far I haven't paid assembly to burnin, but will do once chips are at his doorstep.
In my opinion Bitcoin community should support and appreciate effort that burnin and other respectable DIY gurus have made and not think solely on profit and ROI.
At the end how can we expect Bitburner xx with new generation of Avalon or any other company chips if we back up and leave burnin to burn at stake alone!?
To back up from burnin's design might be as good as putting a nail in his assembly business coffin for good.

[SebastianJu]

I don't believe Yifu will offer refund option, as it is against terms of sales they posted.

http://store.avalon-asics.com/?page_id=9605
6. made to order from TSMC foundry, this also means no refunds.

I also think chips are still fine in terms of ROI, and this delay was something we could expect.
So far I haven't paid assembly to burnin, but will do once chips are at his doorstep.
In my opinion Bitcoin community should support and appreciate effort that burnin and other respectable DIY gurus have made and not think solely on profit and ROI.
At the end how can we expect Bitburner xx with new generation of Avalon or any other company chips if we back up and leave burnin to burn at stake alone!?
To back up from burnin's design might be as good as putting a nail in his assembly business coffin for good.

I think the noise we make with our batches are on a high level since our first batch is 2 weeks late only. But its the bad experience like BFL that made the community hypersensitive to such things. Its a good thing i think. But its too early to fight Yifu with police, sueing and so on. That can follow if he dont deliver and doesnt refund.

What i really want to know from him is what happened to the 135 packets with chips we saw.

[tiros]

I think the noise we make with our batches are on a high level since our first batch is 2 weeks late only. But its the bad experience like BFL that made the community hypersensitive to such things. Its a good thing i think. But its too early to fight Yifu with police, sueing and so on. That can follow if he dont deliver and doesnt refund.

What i really want to know from him is what happened to the 135 packets with chips we saw.

My best guess goes in this order:
1.Avalon was paid not to sent chips by <bfl, asicminer ... insert your own in here>,
2.under threat they sold chips to mafia,
3.chips were sold to asicminer

Were those excuses that Yifu offered?
Looks like they were, for a reason they were not backed up by anything.
I don't say he lied, but if you want people to believe you, back it up by some sort of evidence.
In his "where we stand", still he offered allot for further direction of company and blueprint model for avoiding troubles.
I will be waiting, and I hope he deliver what he announced.

Logging off for now

[ewibit]

What i really want to know from him is what happened to the 135 packets with chips we saw.

anyone know who, when, where etc. exactly has taken this photo and if its not a fake with other content?

[Its About Sharing]

If Yifu defrauded people, we shouldn't be as worried about refunds. If you collect money for a purchase and then sell that purchase to a higher bidder AND defraud the original investors, that is jail. Getting a refund is not the issue here. We need to find out what happened.

[SebastianJu]

"Pictures were shot between 2013-07-09 18:09:55 - 19:09:25 with a Samsung GT-I9008 and Canon EOS 350D, and modified with ACD Systems Digital Imaging from 2013-07-09 22:07:04 - 22:58:16." from http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1hzzmo/impressive_pictures_of_a_huge_avalon_chips_order/

http://imgur.com/a/GR0e3

That means those chips are one month old exactly.

[itod]

What i really want to know from him is what happened to the 135 packets with chips we saw.

anyone know who, when, where etc. exactly has taken this photo and if its not a fake with other content?

Only details about them is translated post from Chinese forum. I don't have an account there and don't know Chinese, whoever wants to see it should be here:
http://bbs.btcman.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=4691&extra=page%3D1&page=1

Interpretation of that from other people: The guy who posted photos gridchip@gmail.com claims he is original chip designer and member of original Avalon team, he posted pictures as a proof he has those pictures and no one else has them. He wanted to prove it because he said he went off from Avalon team and was looking for investor to develop gen 2. chips and produce them directly with TMSC without Avalon.

[Stack]

A refund of our chips does not recover what we've paid to assemblers... who have already spent much of our money on parts and start-up expenses

Mind you.. getting *something* back is better than losing the lot... which is quite possibly how this ends... people are talking about roi but personally i'm thinking this could end up a BFL scenario where we never see product - they just ask everyone to "trade up" to the next gen.. which people will and then the cycle repeats itself

[iCEBREAKER]

A refund of our chips does not recover what we've paid to assemblers... who have already spent much of our money on parts and start-up expenses

Mind you.. getting *something* back is better than losing the lot... which is quite possibly how this ends... people are talking about roi but personally i'm thinking this could end up a BFL scenario where we never see product - they just ask everyone to "trade up" to the next gen.. which people will and then the cycle repeats itself

AVALON Scam Accusation thread
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=258829.0

[kazarko]

Say that batch #N was stuck in customs for two weeks now and we believe the official news Avalon posted.
My questions are those customers in batch N just permanently screwed while their chips are waiting there in limbo (are customs trying to extract a bribe)?
From their site, those 200k chips are stuck for 2 weeks already, and there is no indication they will be out in 2 weeks:
"While we have send out some chip orders, there is currently ~200k chips stuck in custom right at this moment for about 2 weeks now"

Or is Avalon going to ship a second batch out to the customers to replace the first batch stuck in customs?
Or are the chips stuck getting to Avalon redistribution channels via customs and therefore they can resend the chips to the end user by using their next arriving shipment?

I had goods I ordered supposedly lost in Chinese customs 10 years ago, and never heard from again.  The seller blamed customs and never refunded.

[baloo_kiev]

Mind you.. getting *something* back is better than losing the lot... which is quite possibly how this ends... people are talking about roi but personally i'm thinking this could end up a BFL scenario where we never see product - they just ask everyone to "trade up" to the next gen.. which people will and then the cycle repeats itself

Considering that people will trade up... You know, personally I won't. And I hope most gen1 customers won't either. Probably someone will order but let's leave scammers and their victims alone. It's not a big deal to be scammed once, provided you haven't put all your eggs into one basket. But when people get scammed and then trust the very same scammer again... maybe they just deserve it?

[MikeMike]

I wonder how "Cointerra" and their connections fit into the equation?

[SebastianJu]

With all the trouble now a outview at burnin's miner. I had 100 chips ordered in zefir's first batch and today the ready made miners reached. I took fotos of everything.

http://imgur.com/a/nlb09