[Group Buy] Avalon ASIC Chips (SebastianJu) Batch 6 ordered (Closed)

[kazarko]

I think there are around 25 batches before our batch 1.     

[j0ey2069]

I think there are around 25 batches before our batch 1.     

Yup!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiLYkKIHJaIsdHpIaGdUOWRYVUdncTNpNlVKbVhCbEE#gid=0

[Its About Sharing]

I think there are around 25 batches before our batch 1.     

If they are shipping 45k chips a day, and that is a big IF, and there are 25 batches before us, what would the delivery time be? (Not sure how many chips in a batch... 10k? )

[Zich]

I think there are around 25 batches before our batch 1.    

Yup!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiLYkKIHJaIsdHpIaGdUOWRYVUdncTNpNlVKbVhCbEE#gid=0

Base on the docs, At zefir batch 2, total sum of chips is 260k.
our batch 1 make it total of 680k. So there is 420k chip needed......

[kazarko]

I think there are around 25 batches before our batch 1.     

If they are shipping 45k chips a day, and that is a big IF, and there are 25 batches before us, what would the delivery time be? (Not sure how many chips in a batch... 10k? )

You're probably looking at 11+ days for chips to ship if no more chips get stuck in customs.
Then add maybe 5 days for shipping, then add extra days for shipment to board assembly location, and then add a week more for assembly time and delivery if there are no long queues.
Realistically no one in SebastianJu's group buys would see any product until mid to late Sept.

On the other hand, at least Avalon is shipping their product unlike some of the new competition that hasn't delivered anything yet.

[Its About Sharing]

I think there are around 25 batches before our batch 1.     

If they are shipping 45k chips a day, and that is a big IF, and there are 25 batches before us, what would the delivery time be? (Not sure how many chips in a batch... 10k? )

You're probably looking at 11+ days for chips to ship if no more chips get stuck in customs.
Then add maybe 5 days for shipping, then add extra days for shipment to board assembly location, and then add a week more for assembly time and delivery if there are no long queues.
Realistically no one in SebastianJu's group buys would see any product until mid to late Sept.

On the other hand, at least Avalon is shipping their product unlike some of the new competition that hasn't delivered anything yet.

Thanks for the explanation. I really wonder now, if they can get them out so quick, where the heck were "our" chips sent off to in the past. I really think Yifu and Avalon did something shady. It looks like the took our money, made the chips and delivered them to a higher bidder, then ordered more chips and are going to deliver those to us now.

[Choadmeyer]

I think there are around 25 batches before our batch 1.     

If they are shipping 45k chips a day, and that is a big IF, and there are 25 batches before us, what would the delivery time be? (Not sure how many chips in a batch... 10k? )

You're probably looking at 11+ days for chips to ship if no more chips get stuck in customs.
Then add maybe 5 days for shipping, then add extra days for shipment to board assembly location, and then add a week more for assembly time and delivery if there are no long queues.
Realistically no one in SebastianJu's group buys would see any product until mid to late Sept.

On the other hand, at least Avalon is shipping their product unlike some of the new competition that hasn't delivered anything yet.

Thanks for the explanation. I really wonder now, if they can get them out so quick, where the heck were "our" chips sent off to in the past. I really think Yifu and Avalon did something shady. It looks like the took our money, made the chips and delivered them to a higher bidder, then ordered more chips and are going to deliver those to us now.

+1

[j0ey2069]

It is looking promising now though.  At least there's some news and chips are shipping!  I'd say a couple of weeks and we should have stuff moving.

[stergium]

does anyone has facts that other groupbuys have received their chips?

[j0ey2069]

zefirs first two batches have been received.

[Stack]

so what are we doing about the fact - that at their current delivery pace - not even our first batch will be shipped for at least 2 months - and no compensation has been offered ?

[SebastianJu]

so what are we doing about the fact - that at their current delivery pace - not even our first batch will be shipped for at least 2 months - and no compensation has been offered ?

Do you say that our chip batches will only come in 2 months? Where do you see this?

[j0ey2069]

so what are we doing about the fact - that at their current delivery pace - not even our first batch will be shipped for at least 2 months - and no compensation has been offered ?

I don't think anything will be offered.  The problem is we only have visibility on some of the earlier batches to be shipped (zefirs batch 1+2, etc.). A lot of batches went to private buyers (see spreadsheet) and were not group buys through this forum.  I agree with kazarko here, I think that at the current pace of shipping (which we only have a partial view on) that people in this G/B should start having units in their hands from mid-Sept onwards.  The next week or two will be telling though and will help us predict this more accurately.  I am pissed about the delay, but there is little that can be done only wait!

[DebitMe]

so what are we doing about the fact - that at their current delivery pace - not even our first batch will be shipped for at least 2 months - and no compensation has been offered ?

I don't think anything will be offered.  The problem is we only have visibility on some of the earlier batches to be shipped (zefirs batch 1+2, etc.). A lot of batches went to private buyers (see spreadsheet) and were not group buys through this forum.  I agree with kazarko here, I think that at the current pace of shipping (which we only have a partial view on) that people in this G/B should start having units in their hands from mid-Sept onwards.  The next week or two will be telling though and will help us predict this more accurately.  I am pissed about the delay, but there is little that can be done only wait!

This is what I am starting to think, they shipped another group buy order, to settle down the masses, and are now back to not shipping anything as it would seem.  If they were really shipping 40 to 50K a day, then more of Zefir's batches should have shown up by now.

Notice how when the 2nd batch shipped, people fell silent and stopped saying bad things about Avalon for a week or two.  Well since then, we havent seen or had confirmation of any more orders shipping.  It seems that they shipped one more order just to appease people, then went back to not caring.

This really pisses me off, I half want a refund (yes I understand the controversy here), but I am also pissed that I bought these off a guy at .115 ea, so a full refund would net me a 6Btc loss.  But at this point I would seriously be considering such a move as we are losing more and more return potential by the day.  Of course this is based off of the assumption that they would provide a refund which also makes this a mute point since they probably won't.  So I guess I just have to assume that I am out 23 Btc till shipping and then 12 or so to turn them into boards, with little hope of making half of that back.

F'ed up if you ask me.

[j0ey2069]

More chips delivered: https://bitmine.ch/?p=819

[alfabitcoin]

More chips delivered: https://bitmine.ch/?p=819

They bought it by third party - its not their own batch (read last op post on bitmine thread).

[voxelot]

More chips delivered: https://bitmine.ch/?p=819

Who are the third parties they went to in order to get the ICs?  Either way somebody received chips from Avalon and they had to pay a high price to get them before their Batch 1. Good news is they are shipping... bad news is we still have no idea how long it will take since they don't source who is getting the chips?

[SebastianJu]

There are certain other sellers selling avalon asics. And i have read those that bought with them received their chips already. Im not sure where these chips are from originally. I didnt look into it since i was already tied to Yifu at that time.

[iCEBREAKER]

I think there are around 25 batches before our batch 1.     

If they are shipping 45k chips a day, and that is a big IF, and there are 25 batches before us, what would the delivery time be? (Not sure how many chips in a batch... 10k? )

You're probably looking at 11+ days for chips to ship if no more chips get stuck in customs.
Then add maybe 5 days for shipping, then add extra days for shipment to board assembly location, and then add a week more for assembly time and delivery if there are no long queues.
Realistically no one in SebastianJu's group buys would see any product until mid to late Sept.

On the other hand, at least Avalon is shipping their product unlike some of the new competition that hasn't delivered anything yet.

Thanks for the explanation. I really wonder now, if they can get them out so quick, where the heck were "our" chips sent off to in the past. I really think Yifu and Avalon did something shady. It looks like the took our money, made the chips and delivered them to a higher bidder, then ordered more chips and are going to deliver those to us now.

+1

AVALON Scam Accusation thread
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=258829.0

[a2offrb]

Update: Endgame

With ASICMINER today announcing blades for as low as 3.5BTC, it appeared that Avalon chips that do not mine today are not going to break even any more. While those blades went already out of stock after some hours, the new price for mining rig is officially set. Essentially this means that if Avalon does not ship the remaining chips fully within the next two weeks, they become worth less than their shipping costs.

Driven by this event, today I was flooded with refund requests that built up a queue of ~2000 chips. I do not expect any takers for this and it is realistic to assume that there will be no further refunds.


I am sad to admit that I do not believe in a fast and complete delivery of the remaining batches. This stopped to be a game the moment this group-buy alone funneled $500k to Avalon. Although we have only a small set of 'no BS rules', we still have a written commitment to deliver in time as part of the ToS. With so many community members taking a loss directly or indirectly through Avalon failing to meet their schedule, we (together with other customers) need to consider taking serious actions to end this tragedy.

At this stage our options are as follows:

• A. sit and wait
  That was my tactics so far, assuming that civilized and respectful behavior will ensure to get our chips as fast as possible. This in fact might have been the reason why so far our group-buy got more chips than others, at the same time with a delivery of one batch per month our last will arrive mid 2014 - ready for re-direction to the Bitcoin museum
• B. demand full refund
  The majority would be fine with getting their invested coins back and let this chapter pass into oblivion. According to Avolon's ToS, there will be no refunds. But if they really care about Bitcoin and its community and realize how much harm they caused to so many of us, they might consider playing fair and send us the coins back. This implies that you do not want your chips any more.
• C. negotiate for compensation
  While refunding all orders might exceed Avalon's capabilities, they might prefer offering a compensation in form of free chips or free upgrades to next-gen ones. This implies you would like continue dealing with Avalon.
• D. legal action
  Leave the polite arena and sue them into ground; make an example of them and put an end to the pre-order madness in Bitcoinland. This implies you are willing to throw more good money after the bad - for a very limited expectation. Your money would feed some poor lawyers and Avalon if needed will declare bankruptcy (they said they do not control the collected funds any more).

I personally will approach Avalon with options B and C for now and consider combining forces with other group-buy organizers for D if we do not hear back within a reasonable time-frame. If you have a different opinion you'd like to share, please do so either here or via PM.

I will just leave this here.....