[ANN] ChipMixer.com - Bitcoin mixer / Bitcoin tumbler - mixing reinvented

[n0nce]

Mixing example #2

• Bob deposits 1 mBTC on-chain.
• Once the transaction is confirmed, Bob chooses to withdraw the chip via Lightning.
• Bob receives 1 LN-mBTC instantly.
• Bob prefers to have the bitcoin on-chain, so he sends it back to ChipMixer after a few days.
• Bob can now spend his 1 mBTC chip freely, again, knowing he's enhanced his privacy without infringing self-custody.

What do you think?

Sounds like a great idea to me! So basically, instead of handing custody to ChipMixer for a few weeks, Bob can hold the LN balance (non-custodial) for that time period, then push it back to CM and get & redeem his chip immediately.

The fact that his LN funds are non-custodial, means he could at any time spend those on LN, or even use any service to swap it to on-chain balance. But it would also give him the option to get a CM chip at any time, too.
It might even be possible to achieve higher anonymity by spending part of the Lightning balance, thus only getting a smaller chip from CM for the rest of the balance.

Lightning withdrawals, even without sending them back to CM and getting chips would be pretty cool anyway.
The only issue I see is that having self-custody is more interesting / important the higher the amounts are. And large amounts aren't always routeable through Lightning. Besides that, I do like the proposal and the name is amazing, too..

[1714108330]

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[BlackHatCoiner]

So basically, instead of handing custody to ChipMixer for a few weeks, Bob can hold the LN balance (non-custodial) for that time period, then push it back to CM and get & redeem his chip immediately.

Yes. Bob can also open a channel with ChipMixer, if he mixes regularly, to avoid routing failures. The only disadvantage, that way, is that someone who analyzes the chain might realize he's using the channel solely for mixing.

Example #3

• Bob opens a channel with ChipMixer, worth of 0.16 BTC.
• Bob sends 0.08 LN-BTC, equilibrating sending & receiving capacity (0.08 BTC sending capacity for both).
• ChipMixer sends him 0.08 BTC on-chain.
• Bob wants to mix 0.01 BTC, so he sends it to ChipMixer.
• ChipMixer sends him 0.01 LN-BTC.
• Now, Bob's sending capacity is 0.09 BTC and ChipMixer's 0.07 BTC.
• Few days later, Bob wants to mix 0.04 BTC on-chain, so he sends it to ChipMixer.
• ChipMixer sends him 0.04 LN-BTC.
• Now, Bob's sending capacity is 0.05 BTC and ChipMixer's 0.11 BTC.
• Bob can close the channel and earn 0.05 BTC on-chain. The chain analyzer can't know which outputs belong to Bob; at most, they can know that he mixed 0.05 BTC.

Money can be sent back and forth, with the outsiders being unaware of what's happening between him and ChipMixer.

The only issue I see is that having self-custody is more interesting / important the higher the amounts are. And large amounts aren't always routeable through Lightning.

It might be more reasonable for higher amounts, but it works great with micro-amounts if you mix regularly like I do, too. To avoid routing failures, better open a channel directly with ChipMixer's node.

[joker_josue]

Problem is now resolved. If anyone have problem with session please contact us by email.

But today when trying to enter the .com site, the message continues to appear:


In other words, the site is not yet working in the .com version. At least for me.

[LoyceV]

In other words, the site is not yet working in the .com version. At least for me.

It's working just fine, to inform you to use Tor browser:

.com is now online. It does not allow mixing. It is used for informational purposes only.

Using the .onion site is better for privacy, and it's safer.

[joker_josue]

.com is now online. It does not allow mixing. It is used for informational purposes only.

Using the .onion site is better for privacy, and it's safer.

I see, I didn't get that comment. Thanks.

But is there no intention for the .com version to return to active?

[jackg]

But is there no intention for the .com version to return to active?

I think it might just be a more dynamic thing (that they'll review it whenever it seems useful to or if there are better protections for the domain - like anti ddos).

There have been a few mixers that have gone down this route though of only offering tor access (and chipmixer will probably know themselves which was lost used and I can imagine the onion version being used for higher amounts/by more people).

[n0nce]

.com is now online. It does not allow mixing. It is used for informational purposes only.

Using the .onion site is better for privacy, and it's safer.

I see, I didn't get that comment. Thanks.

But is there no intention for the .com version to return to active?

I don't think it's planned for the time being. The switch happened a few weeks ago when there was an attack on the .com (clearnet) website and it stayed only-Tor ever since. Honestly it's going to be better for users and ChipMixer as well, in terms of privacy and legally too.

[dkbit98]

What do you think?

Using of Lightning Network together with Chipmixer is an interesting idea, I don't know how many people are really running their own nodes with LN wallets.
Good thing is that it can be used for smaller amounts and it will save on transaction fees when mempool is ful.

But is there no intention for the .com version to return to active?

Most of the members here are aware of this change and we actually requested something like this, main use of onion version for Chipmixer, for security.
Problem is that we didn't think what would happen in case same thing happens on Tor that would affect all websites including Chipmixer.
My suggestion was to use some wallet software that can be downloaded, but I guess scammers could also create fake wallet.

[Janyiah201]

Some support from Chipmixer and privacy advocates would be useful in my case. 

SCAM EXCHANGE: Openchange (Openchange.cash)

[LoyceV]

Some support from Chipmixer and privacy advocates would be useful in my case. 

SCAM EXCHANGE: Openchange (Openchange.cash)

This, unfortunately, happens more and more: Bitcoin's fungibility is under attack:

I've seen several posts lately from people willing to treat Bitcoin as non-fungible because they believe some coins are "tainted".
I'd say this is a severe threat to Bitcoin, and I wouldn't be surprised if governments use this because they can't stop Bitcoin in any other way. If people believe Bitcoin is "tainted", they won't accept it anymore. "We" should really inform people not to fall for this.
Nobody would reject a dollar bill because it has previously been used in a crime, despite the fact that 85 to 90% contains traces of cocaine. Claiming Bitcoin isn't fungible is just plain stupid.

See [Blacklist] of unreliable, 'taint proclaiming' Bitcoin services / exchanges for n0nce's naming and shaming. Unfortunately, the list is far from complete. And growing.

[DireWolfM14]

Some support from Chipmixer and privacy advocates would be useful in my case. 

SCAM EXCHANGE: Openchange (Openchange.cash)

I don't presume to speak for ChipMixer, but I really don't know what they can do to help you.

This is a very troubling trend, and the only way we can fix it is by boycotting these draconian AML and anti-taint services.  Hit them where it hurts, in the pocket book.  They will either provide a service that people can use, or they'll go out of business.

[n0nce]

Some support from Chipmixer and privacy advocates would be useful in my case. 

SCAM EXCHANGE: Openchange (Openchange.cash)

Unfortunately, 'post-mortem', it's hard to do anything now. I'd assume your funds were stolen by Openchange.

In general, with any service, it's sensible advice to try it with smaller amounts first (that you're comfortable to lose in the worst case), before attempting a larger amount. This no guarantee for success though, since some services do increase e.g. KYC requirements with the amount of money in question.

Another piece of advice would be to use non-custodial services, such as Boltz for instant-exchanging, which use chain swaps instead of physically handing over control of your coins to a third party and then hoping they don't rip you off. This means in the case of Boltz, they basically can't get the currency you send, without sending you the exchange currency at the same time. They don't risk sending you the exchange currency without receiving your BTC either, though, so both sides are secured. Unfortunately, as far as I know Monero can't do that yet. This is also possible for going on-chain <=> Lightning, in that case it's called Submarine Swap.

For exchanging Monero and BTC in particular, I'd probably recommend Bisq. It has no notion of taint and it's purely P2P-based and decentralized, no servers, running purely on Tor.

Finally, if I really needed to use a centralized service, I'd use something more trusted, with known working customer support.
LoyceV already mentioned my blacklist topic and I immediately added Openchange.cash; unfortunately it's hard and I wouldn't attempt to create a 'whitelist', since it's impossible for someone to guarantee that a centralized service is trusted and reliable.

[TryNinja]

Also curious why ChipMixer is no longer offering a clearnet service?

Because of this:

Since the clearnet domain is facing a lot of attacks, shouldn't the better  solution be that the clearnet be just used for informational purposes about Chipmixer and also a link to the tor version that the users can use to mixer coins. More like a move pushing users to mix through the tor version.

This is solution that was decided.

.com is now online. It does not allow mixing. It is used for informational purposes only.

Honestly, anyone dealing with something as sensitive as a mixer should already be using Tor for it.

[DireWolfM14]

Honestly, anyone dealing with something as sensitive as a mixer should already be using Tor for it.

Very true.  It's unfortunate that this has been happening to the clear-net site because I'm afraid most people don't go to much trouble to protect their privacy, and have likely never used tor.  That may be less true about bitcoiners looking to mix their coins, but I believe the statement still accurately applies. 

The issue was only made worse for those who rely on their phones.  Until recently there was no official TorProject mobile app, so people had to rely on third party apps and plugins which carry their own risks.

[bloooodddddy]

why tor v3 link error? Onionsite Not Found

[jackg]

why tor v3 link error? Onionsite Not Found

I'm able to reproduce this on mobile so must be on chipmixer's end, hopefully it gets fixed soon.

[bloooodddddy]

why tor v3 link error? Onionsite Not Found

I'm able to reproduce this on mobile so must be on chipmixer's end, hopefully it gets fixed soon.

same error??

[jackg]

same error??

It just says no connection but I can load up duckduckgo fine: https://duckduckgogg42xjoc72x3sjasowoarfbgcmvfimaftt6twagswzczad.onion/

(this was just a test I don't stand by/trust that link as I searched it up on clearnet duckduckgo over tor)

[stevario]

I am having the same issues restoring my ChipMix session.  I am pretty concerned that I have lost some BTC.  Has anyone been able to get to the official ChipMix Or Fly site?

[dkbit98]

I can confirm the same error.
Clearnet website is opening just fine, but I was not able to open Chipmixer onion link, and I tried changing identity several times.
I checked official Tor status page and they are currently experiencing disruptions (Directory Authorities and DDOS), so this could be related with Chipmixer.
https://status.torproject.org/

This is why I see when I try to open Chipmixer website:

Onionsite Not Found

The most likely cause is that the onionsite is offline. Contact the onionsite administrator.

Details: 0xF0 — The requested onion service descriptor can't be found on the hashring and therefore the service is not reachable by the client.