[ANN] ChipMixer.com - Bitcoin mixer / Bitcoin tumbler - mixing reinvented

[LoyceV]

• Usage: Using ChipMixer after using a centralized exchange to purchase bitcoin
• Considerations/Questions: Is there a benefit to trading your coins from a centralized exchange for coins that may have come from malicious sources? Might using coins linked with your identity/centralized exchange open you up to risks depending on how the next person from ChipMixer uses your inputs?
• Opinion: I believe that this scenario is what poses the most danger to users who might think they are becoming more private, except instead they might be opening themselves up to more risk.

Again: I think you're looking at this in the wrong way. There are no "coins from malicious sources", now you're buying into the notion of taint. That believe is being sold by companies who want to convince others they need to buy their "taint identification services". It's a business model, and it's very existence is an attack on Bitcoin. All I can do is warn people not to fall for it.

It's very simple: 1BTC = 1BTC. Without that, money can't exist. You don't complain to your bank about the cocaine traces on your banknodes, do you? Money gets used by good and bad people, and the current owner can't be blamed for anything the previous owner may have done.

I myself do not use centralized exchanges nor do I condone anyone to, I condone learning p2p trading and conducting this way.

So you're saying you risk exchanging your clean Bitcoins for dirty dollars with a criminal past? Don't you see the irony in that?

I've seen a complaint about an instant exchange: the deposit was frozen by the third-party exchange they used "because of taint". They claimed the user needed to go through KYC, and after that the money was okay again. It turned out they used Binance, and the funds were added to Binance's large wallet. Does that mean the "taint" is magically gone? Does it mean the exchange sells "tainted Bitcoins"? Or does it means there was no taint in the first place? My money is on the last scenario.

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[NotATether]

I've seen a complaint about an instant exchange: the deposit was frozen by the third-party exchange they used "because of taint". They claimed the user needed to go through KYC, and after that the money was magically okay again. It turned out they used Binance, and the funds were added to Binance's large wallet. Does that mean the "taint" is magically gone? Does it mean the exchange sells "tainted Bitcoins"? Or does it means there was no taint in the first place? My money is on the last scenario.

Unfortunately there's no way to know which exchanges are the ones making an issue about taint because they'll throw KYC out at you for a variety of reasons and taint is just one of the excuses they can make.

What if there was some feature built into Bitcoin Core's wallet, and other wallets, that periodically "rotated" your funds to newly generated addresses over a 24hour period? And then, whenever you need to make a transaction, RBF can be used to override the previous rotation transaction.

Bitcoin Core is especially suitable for this as they pre-generate a thousand private keys and associated addresses for a given wallet.

[dean7346]

"Onionsite Has Disconnected

The most likely cause is that the onionsite is offline. Contact the onionsite administrator."

is it the site is down?

[n0nce]

• naughty human uses ChipMixer, gains centralized exchange users' coins and uses them for illegal purposes
• naughty humans' usage leads to linking with centralized exchange user who is then questioned for the usage, is left with no choice but to say they used ChipMixer, and probably faces a long line of questioning/discomfort, possibly even consequences for using ChipMixer (depending on jurisdiction).

The first mistake is buying coins from a centralized exchange for lots of reasons, as touched on above.
I'm not aware of an exchange that traces withdrawals and questions whatever people choose to do with their own money. It is certainly not their task to check what people do with their money, where they send it and whatnot.
Lastly, I don't see why you should face consequences for mixing coins. It is simply a privacy measure. If we accept such oppressive behavior, we will also accept authorities' demands to know our public keys, decrypt our hard drives, see our private photos and whatever.

I know, I know..."all coins are the same and there is no such thing as good or bad coins and we shouldn't let people tell us otherwise", but I think if you compare inputs from a centralized exchange user who has done their KYC and honest money to buy Bitcoin in comparison to coins that come from hacks or scams then I think this "all coins are the same..." logic turns into an idealistic belief rather than a realistic fact. I digress...
ChipMixer (and other mixers for that matter) may not explicitly state the risk that comes with the mentioned usage, as it would then eliminate the potential for a lot of these inputs to become a part of the service and may hinder the quality of the service, so, not saying anything about the risk is the better move for business.

Your statements are factually wrong and based on flawed assumptions. We have data that shows how money from thefts landed in centralized exchanges' hot wallets without issue and was handed back out to regular users withdrawing funds.
It is beyond me how you can assume that centralized exchange users == 'honest money'. How should an exchange know where I got my fiat from? Only because it is deposited through wire transfer, does not mean someone got it through honest means.
The quality of ChipMixer's service has nothing to do with the 'quality' of the inputs you get from it. You said it correctly: all UTXOs are the same. The 'risk' is not present, it is not inherent to Bitcoin or mixing or any of this. It is from you choosing to engage in business with unreliable business partners who can at their own discretion confiscate your money. Even if you did 'everything right', they can just claim you got it through gambling and - poof - it is gone.

You should write a thread about 'risks of engaging with business partners who do not view Bitcoin as fungible', instead.

is it the site is down?

Seems like that, yes. From my experience, you just need to have a little patience and it will come back shortly.

[dean7346]

thank you will wait then

[dkbit98]

What does the community think of when it is appropriate to use ChipMixer? What is the best way to reduce risk while taking all parties on the other end of the chain, who may not be focusing on decentralization and privacy? Does the team have official responses to these questions?

You can use ChipMixer anyway you want, but my suggestion is to try and avoid using them in combination with big centralized exchanges.
There are even cases of people sending coins to Binance and Coinbase without any issues, but I heard cases of frozen and lost coins, so it can be a risk.
If you are using coins from ChipMixer for direct payment or for trading with someone p2p you should be just fine with almost everything.

is it the site is down?

It's down for me as well.
I suspect that is because of constant ddos attacks, but I am sure the are working to fix this so just be patient and wait for official CM reply.

[n0nce]

You can use ChipMixer anyway you want, but my suggestion is to try and avoid using them in combination with big centralized exchanges.
There are even cases of people sending coins to Binance and Coinbase without any issues, but I heard cases of frozen and lost coins, so it can be a risk.

The problem is that there is no proof so far that any of those cases have been because of the use of ChipMixer. Exchanges tend to be somewhat secretive about why they steal your funds. Correlation doesn't mean causation.
There are reports of people getting their funds confiscated without use of mixers, just because of 'suspicious activity'. As I said, the exchanges are usually very vague and don't really tell you if it was the use of a mixer that they didn't like, or what happened to the 'coin' before it was sent to the mixer, or something else entirely.

That's why I keep saying: such services are not reliable as business partners, therefore I advise avoiding them.

[dean7346]

"Onionsite Not Found"

seem the site is not up yet, is everyone know how long usually down, have fund need to use

[jackg]

"Onionsite Not Found"

seem the site is not up yet, is everyone know how long usually down, have fund need to use

I also can't connect to it, how long it's offline for might depend on what took them offline in the first place. The last time it needed admin intervention I think it took just a few days for it to be fully functioning again - if it's a ddos or automated attack it'll likely come back sooner.

[dean7346]

the site is up again ty

[nioctib_100]

Clearnet site says seized... wow. TOR site still looks normal?

[TryNinja]

Seized... wow
https://i.ibb.co/2WZ64kb/chm2x1.png

Damn, actually not a troll. ChipMixer.com domain was seized.

The TOR website is still up and running, though.

P.S: A reminder that chipmixer.com (clearnet domain) wasn't operating as a mixer for some time. All it did was link people to the actual mixer which runs solely through Tor.

Also, it's quite trivial to seize a clearnet domain since they are centralized, so that doesn't mean ChipMixer's operator was captured (otherwise tor would be down as well).

[DireWolfM14]

Seized... wow
https://i.ibb.co/2WZ64kb/chm2x1.png

Damn, actually not a troll. ChipMixer.com was seized.

The TOR website is still up and running, though.

A reminder that chipmixer.com (clearnet) wasn't operating as a mixer for some time. All it did was link people to the actual mixer which runs solely through Tor.

Yeah, the government gestapo won't be able to seize the TOR site, they would need access to the chipmixer server for that.  Obviously they wouldn't be able to do that.  With all the corruption and censorship being attempted by the FED these days, TOR will likely be our only option going forward.

[nioctib_100]

TOR site is actually seized too. A notice pops up once you start clicking through a little bit.

[TryNinja]

TOR site is actually seized too. A notice pops up once you start clicking through a little bit.

https://i.ibb.co/9njVcXr/Chip-Mixer.png

Oh...

Actually some trolling by the agents.

"SeIzDDbYbKAl0L is your session token. Save it permanently before continuing or you risk losing your funds."

And the page footer:

"About | Want to earn an honest living in crypto? Visit our career page!" (leading to the BKA police page, lovely how only criminals use mixers, right?)

[nioctib_100]

Only press release I can find at the moment: https://www.europol.europa.eu/media-press/newsroom/news/one-of-darkwebs-largest-cryptocurrency-laundromats-washed-out

1900 BTC seized and 7TB of data. Chipmixer was supposed to not keep much data, and I really can't imagine they did. Hopefully (and probably??) not identifying data.

[btctarun]

Hi …. Chipmixer is seized by German police…. What about chips that were in process of mixing.

[TryNinja]

Only press release I can find at the moment: https://www.europol.europa.eu/media-press/newsroom/news/one-of-darkwebs-largest-cryptocurrency-laundromats-washed-out

1900 BTC seized and 7TB of data. Chipmixer was supposed to not keep much data, and I really can't imagine they did. Hopefully (and probably??) not identifying data.

7TB seems too much even if they were logging every chip. Honestly no idea what that could be.

Hi …. Chipmixer is seized by German police…. What about chips that were in process of mixing.

I wouldn't get your hopes up too high.

[stompix]

Well, at least they acknowledge something:

A service available both on the clear and on the darkweb, ChipMixer offered full anonymity to their clients.

And I love the use of "suggest, may, possibility" when mentioning every single thing.

7TB seems too much even if they were logging every chip. Honestly no idea what that could be.

I was about to say the same, but there are 4 servers mentioned, I imagine 2 TB of those would be nodes?

[BlackHatCoiner]

Holy shit...