[ANN] ChipMixer.com - Bitcoin mixer / Bitcoin tumbler - mixing reinvented

[FatFork]

Now the question is this 40M Euro belong to Chipmixer?

No. It is likely that the funds do not rightfully belong to ChipMixer from a legal standpoint, but instead to their clients. (Not sure if the term "legal" is appropriate in this particular context.)

I don't think that people who mix their coins on chipmixer, their money is stored there because the money is moved to the user's wallet as soon as the mixing is done.

Actually, that's not quite right. When you use ChipMixer to mix your coins, you receive "chips" after depositing your coins. These chips are essentially pre-funded addresses owned by ChipMixer, and you're given the private keys to withdraw the funds. However, not everyone immediately transferred the funds from these chips to their own wallets, which resulted in the funds being confiscated.

So where does this money comes from and why it is stored at chipmixer?

I presume that these are the unutilized chips that were available on the platform for the company's operational requirements, as well as the chips belonging to customers who did not withdraw them to their external wallets.

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[coupable]

I do not understand why the name of the suspect was announced so quickly before an official request was submitted to the State of Vietnam for his extradition or trial.

So that the manhunt can begin with the help of the public. They probably weren't able to locate him so far. You can't extradite or try someone you have not arrested yet.

And if an indictment file was prepared before the site was shut down, why was the suspect not arrested before his name was announced?

They announced his name because they need your help to locate him

Personally, I do not imagine that these guys failed to hide their identities, although their history proves how smart they are. The name of the suspect that was announced may have been used as his identity only and has nothing to do with the matter. I am not going to open an investigation here, and all I want to say is that things are open to many scenarios as long as Chipmixer keeps data on servers like any centralized website.

[dragonvslinux]

I do not understand why the name of the suspect was announced so quickly before an official request was submitted to the State of Vietnam for his extradition or trial.

So that the manhunt can begin with the help of the public. They probably weren't able to locate him so far. You can't extradite or try someone you have not arrested yet.

And if an indictment file was prepared before the site was shut down, why was the suspect not arrested before his name was announced?

They announced his name because they need your help to locate him

Personally, I do not imagine that these guys failed to hide their identities, although their history proves how smart they are.

I recommend you have a browse through the court document to see the investigation into him (starts around page 28):
https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1574581/download

Unfortunately, having clearnet sites and un-encrypted emails with google/yahoo/protonmail etc means it only takes one slip up. Basically warrants for information went to numerous services from email to social media to exchanges, leading them eventually to him via different alias'. Whether he was simply involved with hosting the clearnet site, or even just a user, rather than admin, is another story though as the evidence seems to lack his direct involvement. Unlike with previous darkweb market takedowns for example, it's usually a requirement to catch the suspect "logged in" as it were, for concrete evidence.

Ie they connect him through clearnet registration to email to to recovery emails to crypto addresses to exchanges to KYC, nothing more than joining dots together with a lot of warrants for information to different service and providers. At best it's a fishing expedition and he's found not guilty of money laundering and operating chipmixer and only found guilty identity fraud imo, but don't want to speculate too much over his guilt tbh...

The problem with the smartest people is that all it takes is one human error, and it can be the start of an investigation...

I am not going to open an investigation here, and all I want to say is that things are open to many scenarios as long as Chipmixer keeps data on servers like any centralized website.

No need, the US already created one. Ideally the 60 page document would be summarised here so others can understand the claim a lot quicker.

[trainer1234]

Can someone explain me where the benefit of having all those private keys  from every single mixing order is ?


Because the pre funded wallets which the user gained access after receiving the private key from chipmixer were public anyways on the blockchain.


So what i dont understand is, there is no extra gain of tracement only that the LE is having the privatekeys or am i having a wrong conclusion?

[jack80]

by now chipmixer is gone. What are the best alternatives right now?

[NotATether]

by now chipmixer is gone. What are the best alternatives right now?

The services section has a good headcount of mixers to look at such as Coinonomize.biz, YoMix and sinbad.

[n0nce]

by now chipmixer is gone. What are the best alternatives right now?

The services section has a good headcount of mixers to look at such as Coinonomize.biz, YoMix and sinbad.

I saw a few people wearing the sinbad signature, but after opening the site through Tor, I was greeted with a Cloudflare page. Not a good idea to go through Cloudflare, which decrypt and cache the whole traffic, if we want to really improve our privacy..
Will look at the others later.

So what i dont understand is, there is no extra gain of tracement only that the LE is having the privatekeys or am i having a wrong conclusion?

By having the private keys, law enforcement was able to seize all the Bitcoin controlled by those keys.
If ChipMixer would have deleted them after handing out a chip, they wouldn't have been able to do that.

[mindrust]

by now chipmixer is gone. What are the best alternatives right now?

The services section has a good headcount of mixers to look at such as Coinonomize.biz, YoMix and sinbad.

I saw a few people wearing the sinbad signature, but after opening the site through Tor, I was greeted with a Cloudflare page. Not a good idea to go through Cloudflare, which decrypt and cache the whole traffic, if we want to really improve our privacy..
Will look at the others later.

I think people only care if they are getting paid at this point.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Not a good idea to go through Cloudflare, which decrypt and cache the whole traffic, if we want to really improve our privacy..

I'm neither in favor of Cloudflare, but I'm not quite sure what's the problem if you're behind Tor-- besides of course the fact that it's a pain in the ass to complete the captcha (if any). I'm not an expert on this field, but isn't there a problem with DDoS-ing non-protected websites? I remember ChipMixer getting down for maintenance quite frequently in the past.

I think people only care if they are getting paid at this point.

The campaign began today. I had to hurry. I haven't used the service yet, but I will.

[joker_josue]

I think people only care if they are getting paid at this point.

The campaign began today. I had to hurry. I haven't used the service yet, but I will.

On the 3rd of March, I shared my first experience using mixers on the Portuguese local tab. I had never felt the need to use it before, but I wanted to try it.

I tested 3 mixers, including the ChipMixer, but now it is no longer usable.

Do you think it would be interesting for me to create a topic in English about the subject? If yes, what will be the best board?

[TryNinja]

Not a good idea to go through Cloudflare, which decrypt and cache the whole traffic, if we want to really improve our privacy..

I'm neither in favor of Cloudflare, but I'm not quite sure what's the problem if you're behind Tor-- besides of course the fact that it's a pain in the ass to complete the captcha (if any). I'm not an expert on this field, but isn't there a problem with DDoS-ing non-protected websites? I remember ChipMixer getting down for maintenance quite frequently in the past.

I think the problem is that everything you see they can also see. Basically, Cloudflare knows every step of your mixing process, and we all know that Cloudflare is a single email from handling all the data to a 3 letters agency (as we learned through ChipMixer, evidenced by the DoJ paper - P.S I'm just explaining what I read, don't sue me Mr DoJ, tyvm)

[PawGo]

By having the private keys, law enforcement was able to seize all the Bitcoin controlled by those keys.
If ChipMixer would have deleted them after handing out a chip, they wouldn't have been able to do that.

We do not know what it the content and source of 7GB data mentioned before. I may imagine the situation where CM operator deleted private keys and/or session data as it was promised, but if server has been hosted using serious datacenter, regular backups were done. In my opinion it is not impossible that some data comes from backups (restore points) made by hosting operator.

[coolcoinz]

Unfortunately, having clearnet sites and un-encrypted emails with google/yahoo/protonmail etc means it only takes one slip up.

Protonmail is encrypted. AFAIK they weren't able to access the emails, but the name of the email gave them a clue where to look next. They got to the email name, so they started to look for this email in various domain registrations, forum accounts, and also for the alias used in the email.
They were also checking IP addresses used along with the email for various logins, domains, and so on.
Basically they were gathering anything they could, like if the account had a phone number as password recovery, they'd check that number. If it had an IP address that someone used to log in, they'd search for that IP and if it was used with other email providers.

Basically warrants for information went to numerous services from email to social media to exchanges, leading them eventually to him via different alias'. Whether he was simply involved with hosting the clearnet site, or even just a user, rather than admin, is another story though as the evidence seems to lack his direct involvement. Unlike with previous darkweb market takedowns for example, it's usually a requirement to catch the suspect "logged in" as it were, for concrete evidence.

That's correct. The fact that a user registered a domain, or had admin rights, doesn't make him the only person running the show, but the US likes to give people the good old stick before the carrot treatment. The idea is to get him to talk, give up everything, and later screw him into a life sentence like they did with Ross. Poor guy gave up his wallet passwords in hope for lower sentence and got life anyway.

[JollyGood]

It does make you think about such a high level on anonymity on part of Chipmixer yet they decided to use Cloudflare. Why would they do that if they were serious about anonymity?

If Chipmixer was run by an individual then he might not have covered all possible areas of anonymity even if he tried. Apart from the PayPal issue there were other clues that he left behind that got him caught which shows he probably did not have a team with him. Using Cloudflare had advantages but not for any anonymity based website.

It was inevitable at some stage money would be laundered through Chipmixer as they will be through virtually all mixers therefore the service is too risky to operate. The accusations made by the FBI are serious and after he is eventually arrested he will probably serve a very long sentence as the law enforcement agencies would want to make an example of him.

Not a good idea to go through Cloudflare, which decrypt and cache the whole traffic, if we want to really improve our privacy..

I'm neither in favor of Cloudflare, but I'm not quite sure what's the problem if you're behind Tor-- besides of course the fact that it's a pain in the ass to complete the captcha (if any). I'm not an expert on this field, but isn't there a problem with DDoS-ing non-protected websites? I remember ChipMixer getting down for maintenance quite frequently in the past.

I think the problem is that everything you see they can also see. Basically, Cloudflare knows every step of your mixing process, and we all know that Cloudflare is a single email from handling all the data to a 3 letters agency (as we learned through ChipMixer, evidenced by the DoJ paper - P.S I'm just explaining what I read, don't sue me Mr DoJ, tyvm)

[TryNinja]

It does make you think about such a high level on anonymity on part of Chipmixer yet they decided to use Cloudflare. Why would they do that if they were serious about anonymity?

I'm pretty sure ChipMixer never used Cloudflare. Actually, it's in the DoJ's case document that they were very much against CF.

While ChipMixer was experiencing DDoS attacks in September and October
2017, NGUYEN posted to BitcoinTalk explaining why he did not use Cloudflare, a popular
counter-DDoS platform, stating, “In our case, if we would use Cloudflare, Cloudflare would
know input addresses and private keys. Cloudflare is US company so it is reasonable to think
that any three letter institution could get an access by court order.”

In the context of the chain of quotes, they were talking about Sinbad, another competitor, which appears to use Cloudflare.

[n0nce]

I think people only care if they are getting paid at this point.

The campaign began today. I had to hurry. I haven't used the service yet, but I will.

On the 3rd of March, I shared my first experience using mixers on the Portuguese local tab. I had never felt the need to use it before, but I wanted to try it.

I tested 3 mixers, including the ChipMixer, but now it is no longer usable.

Do you think it would be interesting for me to create a topic in English about the subject? If yes, what will be the best board?

I do think so, yes. Especially since it seems to be a new / unknown service and we suddenly see ads for it everywhere. As I mentioned already, I have serious privacy concerns due to the usage of Cloudflare, as TryNinja correctly explained. So it would be good to know whether this is just a money grab for forum users or an actual ChipMixer alternative that they recommend using.

By having the private keys, law enforcement was able to seize all the Bitcoin controlled by those keys.
If ChipMixer would have deleted them after handing out a chip, they wouldn't have been able to do that.

We do not know what it the content and source of 7GB data mentioned before. I may imagine the situation where CM operator deleted private keys and/or session data as it was promised, but if server has been hosted using serious datacenter, regular backups were done. In my opinion it is not impossible that some data comes from backups (restore points) made by hosting operator.

It is 7TB. If backups were done that include the private keys, that was a big mistake. I can guarantee you that these 7TB include private keys, since I have seen funds withdrawn from ChipMixer (imported private keys)) disappear on the day of the ChipMixer takedown.

It was inevitable at some stage money would be laundered through Chipmixer as they will be through virtually all mixers therefore the service is too risky to operate.

My issue is that you can use almost anything to launder money. Gambling sites, physical cash, privacy coins, CoinJoin, and any privacy measure really.
Just like you can plan crimes using privacy-focused messengers or GPG emails.
In both cases, I think that the fact you can abuse a system does not make it a morally bad system. These systems have good intentions and are sometimes vital for many people's lives.

[JollyGood]

I'm pretty sure ChipMixer never used Cloudflare. Actually, it's in the DoJ's case document that they were very much against CF.

I was under the impression Chipmixer used Cloudflare in the early days after their inception and that proved problematic for the owner. I could be wrong about that though.

In the context of the chain of quotes, they were talking about Sinbad, another competitor, which appears to use Cloudflare.

Mixers using Cloudflare or any DDoS prevention website seems completely counterproductive, it raises the question why they would even consider using those types of service.

My issue is that you can use almost anything to launder money. Gambling sites, physical cash, privacy coins, CoinJoin, and any privacy measure really.
Just like you can plan crimes using privacy-focused messengers or GPG emails.
In both cases, I think that the fact you can abuse a system does not make it a morally bad system. These systems have good intentions and are sometimes vital for many people's lives.

I tend to agree with the notion that just because a service can or could be manipulated or misused does not mean it is morally reprehensible nor that the people operating it are encouraging bad people to participate in criminal activity. Having said that, the most important thing for them to worry about is self-preservation and to take steps to protect themselves from prosecution and for that they need to demonstrate they have at least tried to actively prevent misuse of their service. I mean, there is a fine line behind any mixer such as Chipmixer and any exchange such as Binance.

Who knows, maybe in the coming months or years Binance will be suffering the same fate with allegations of money laundering against their owner Changpeng Zhao, that eventuality does not seem impossible.

[bct_ail]

I recommend you have a browse through the court document to see the investigation into him (starts around page 28):
https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1574581/download

I do not understand exactly what this document is? The internet address says "press release". So this is just a general document for the press? Or documentation of all the evidence and procedure from the special agent?

In any case our forum are very common there. The word Bitcointalk ist 14 times represented.

[Renampun]

Personally, I do not imagine that these guys failed to hide their identities, although their history proves how smart they are. The name of the suspect that was announced may have been used as his identity only and has nothing to do with the matter. I am not going to open an investigation here, and all I want to say is that things are open to many scenarios as long as Chipmixer keeps data on servers like any centralized website.

Reportedly they tracked Nguyen through a transaction on his paypal account and there was mention of chipmixer there.

I recommend you have a browse through the court document to see the investigation into him (starts around page 28):
https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1574581/download

I do not understand exactly what this document is? The internet address says "press release". So this is just a general document for the press? Or documentation of all the evidence and procedure from the special agent?

In any case our forum are very common there. The word Bitcointalk ist 14 times represented.

and on page 22 is the first-word "bitcointalk" forum written.

[dragonvslinux]

I recommend you have a browse through the court document to see the investigation into him (starts around page 28):
https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1574581/download

I do not understand exactly what this document is? The internet address says "press release". So this is just a general document for the press? Or documentation of all the evidence and procedure from the special agent?

Literally read the title: United States District Court. Then read sub-title: for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania
You can even read further into the criminal complaint and who is accusing who, it's not that difficult imo.
In summary, it's the court documents accusing the suspect in this case.