IOTA - the scheme is being pumped hard now don't fall for the trap

[Lauda]

The gist of the IOTA whitepaper (my comments in parentheses):
1. Blockchains make micro-payments impossible (is that even true? it's not practical in the case of bitcoin but couldn't a blockchain-based solution exist?)

Which is a false assumption. It is very much possible (and used to be possible before on chain fees) with payment channels.

2. Blockchains give rise to conflicts between transaction issuers and approvers (is that necessarily the case?)

It is not necessarily the case.

3. So there is a need for a solution not based on blockchain (so the guy makes the assumptions that the two above issues cannot be resolved in a blockchain-based framework)

There is absolutely no need for that so far.

4. We are developing iota, a solution not based on blockchain, we don't know whether it will work in practice but let's hope

Pretty much every scam project ever.

I don't have the courage to go through the whole thing like this, it just gets worse and worse

Yes.

What kind of sense can you make out of all that shit? Do you even understand what you read? Or it's so hard to understand because the guy can't even explain things properly so you think it must be so profoundly deep and genius?

I mean what the hell guys has this world gone crazy?

A lot of people in here have no fundamentals, and they would sell their own parents for a little bit of profit. They also often have near zero knowledge of cryptography, maths, cryptocurrency or any other related field. No wonder the hype up these scam coins.

A thread made by byteballers to FUD iota basically. Even with your long posts full of mistakes and missed assumptions. You're overestimating yourselves a bit.

The post by "pumpmydump" does not have mistakes (at least not within the first few points).

[Come-from-Beyond]

PoW on IOT devices is a fundamental mistake.

Hi, Lauda. You don't remember me, probably, but I'd like to say that I'm your fan. Countless hours were spent by me to write down every personal insult posted by you. They extended my poor collection consisting only of "fuck off" to 200+ entries. Now I can pretty freely explain what I would do to relatives of my opponent and even to his dead dog. I learned a lot of anatomical terms in English. With your help I realized that "This is what your mom said" can be an insult too if I pay attention to the words of whom I was answering to. At any moment I can sort "moron", "idiot", "imbecile" according to their IQ level (I still don't get if "semi-retard" is more insulting than "retard" though, could you help me with this, by the way). I was amazed reading about your sexual life (from your own words). "He must be a reincarnation of Kamasutra author" - this thought came to my mind numerous times. Some things I knew about you might be perceived as perversions by most of people but who are they to judge you? I still giggle time to time recalling your "This is how your MOM looks after I flip her" reply to a newbie asking what "WOW" is, that was brilliant, man! Some your posts were quite racist to my taste, but I didn't blame you, we all have psychological traumas from childhood which manifest themselves one way or another... Oh, I posted so much text, completely forgot that actually I was going just to ask you a question, sorry...

Why is PoW on IoT devices is a fundamental mistake?

[SatoNatomato]

Wow, this forum is hostile.  Anyone who doesn't believe IOTA is a scam is instantly a shill and or "bagholder".  You down rate my profile, and then post a bunch of inaccurate bullshit... nice. That is called blind ignorance and hate. This forum is full of paranoid sociopaths.

I came here simply to post my view of IOTA, but its clearly not wanted by you blockchain bagholders trying to protect your investment with blind ignorance.  

You win, trolls, you win. I will gladly leave here, so you can enjoy your psychosis. Fuck this place and fuck all of you. Have fun with your empire of dirt.

Dont let the door hit you on the way out CfB.

Any iota official channel is censored and moderated. Any slight criticism is not welcome. Questions of the kind asked here, IoT & PoW, auto-node discovery lead to insta-ban.

Ask "What criteria has to be fulfilled for Coordinator to be turned off", maybe you get as answer ridicule and attempts at intimidation with threats from the Iota developers, sometimes they threaten with legal action.  

EDIT: Dont answer CfB, he developer of IoT coin should have known something about IoT devices and the obvious retardation of doing PoW on them. He considers a Raspberry Pi to be IoT device. He is now in here fishing for information to scam more people.. Do not  bite the troll bait! Pass.

[pumpmydump]

What kind of sense can you make out of all that shit? Do you even understand what you read? Or it's so hard to understand because the guy can't even explain things properly so you think it must be so profoundly deep and genius?

I mean what the hell guys has this world gone crazy?

A lot of people in here have no fundamentals, and they would sell their own parents for a little bit of profit. They also often have near zero knowledge of cryptography, maths, cryptocurrency or any other related field. No wonder the hype up these scam coins.

Even without knowledge in these fields, many sentences in the whitepaper make no sense from a logical and grammatical point of view. Sometimes he says a node approves transactions, sometimes he says transactions approve transactions. He talks of a transaction being approved by a "tip", but in the context he uses it that sentence makes no sense. He doesn't use a consistent terminology. He makes faulty assumptions. So many things are left unexplained and in many instances there is no way to understand what he is referring to or what assumptions he starts from. The whitepaper looks like a draft at best, incomplete and full of errors and inconsistencies. It isn't that it is too deep to understand, it is that it is presented in a way that cannot be understood. People backing this project do not understand it, they are just attracted by the "no blockchain" "no fees" "quantum resistant" memes. How such a shitty paper could make it to a 1 billion+ market cap is beyond me. I knew people were stupid, but this...

[bustedsynx]

His name is Come from Beyond. The main developer of IOTA, they said the inventor of tangle chains.

[SatoNatomato]

A secure m2m communication can be done and has been done since 20 years ago - its called SSL/TLS.

Educate yourself.

http://blog.zuehlke.com/en/ssl-isnt-enough-for-internet-of-things/

"In any case, the end-to-end scenario needs to be considered."

Your point was secure m2m communication, that means transport layer, but sure now you move to application-level. OK.

If only there was a cryptocurrency which relied only on signing messages and didnt waste energy doing worthless PoW... 
Oh right, Byteball!

BTW; I work exactly with these types of problem, at an IoT company.

[cryptohunter]

Hint2: All the problems of IOTA are already solved with Byteball.

Traded my IOTA for Byteball last night.

Byteball's marketcap is touching 1/2 of IOTA's the market is speaking, and I am listening

good move

[SatoNatomato]

secure communication usually means on any and all layers.

It does mean that if you are an retarded iota developer/fanboi.

What you gonna do, make it so secure, the plaintext will never even exist at any point! Secure tamper-proof hardware! Wow!

[Come-from-Beyond]

Wow!

What is "Wow"?

[Omega Weapon]

I smell that this is one of the big nails, which will close digital's currencies coffin (i.e. "raised eyebrows", regulations etc.). 

What are the regulators going to do? They can't stop drugs being bought sold. How would they stop these ICO? Stamp their feet?

Probably, but they could at least make it illegal for the residents of their country to participate in ICOs and crowdsales, if this happens, then that is going to stop a number of people not everyone but some, especially those that do not know any better and follow orders, for the rest they will keep doing business as usual but the rewards are going to be smaller.

[LiQio]

[...]

BTW; I work exactly with these types of problem, at an IoT company as an intern

FTFY kiddo.

Oh, and @Lauda, great to have you here.
If you entertain us in threads I already watch, it saves me a few clicks to follow your sig campaigns.

[Lauda]

Hi, Lauda. You don't remember me, probably, but I'd like to say that I'm your fan.

I don't know you besides the NXT scam, which is yet another reason to tag you and everyone involved.

Why is PoW on IoT devices is a fundamental mistake?

Your question can be answered with a simple question: "Why?". That PoW inherently has no benefit, and what you consider a IoT device (if the claim from someone else is true) has nothing to do with IoT.

As an delusional shill, I approve this message:
https://cryptoinsider.com/blockchains-suck/

You are an idiot.

Oh, and @Lauda, great to have you here.

I am strongly opposed to any kind of scams, but it is not possible to be everywhere at all times. Otherwise I'd be hunting for some young blood in this section.

[pumpmydump]

If only there was a cryptocurrency which relied only on signing messages and didnt waste energy doing worthless PoW...  
Oh right, Byteball!

If only there were no transaction fees... oh wait... IOTA.

As per the "whitepaper" which you supposedly read:

"When a new transaction arrives, it must approve two previous transactions" (yea that sentence makes no sense, the author of the whitepaper means that to issue a transaction a node first has to approve two other transactions of the "tangle")

and

More specifically, to issue a transaction, a node does the following:

 First, it chooses two other transactions to approve (in general, these two transactions may coincide), according to some algorithm.
 It checks if the two transactions are not conflicting and do not approve conflicting transactions.
 For the transaction to be valid, the node must solve a cryptographic puzzle (which may be computationally demanding) similar to those in the Bitcoin mining (e.g., it needs to find a nonce such that the hash of that nonce together with some data from the approved transactions has a particular form, for instance, has at least some fixed number of zeros in front).

So you say there are no transaction fees in IOTA, but to issue a transaction a node has to pick two other transactions to approve according to some algorithm, has to check if the two transactions are not conflicting according to another algorithm, if they are conflicting the node has to run an algorithm to decide which transaction to approve (this algorithm may take a lot of time to finish), and then the node has to solve a cryptographic puzzle (potentially computationally demanding again) to validate each transaction.

So great you don't have to send tokens to the network to issue a transaction but you have to do all that shit, how wouldn't you call that "fees"? It takes computing power, it takes time, it takes energy, those are fees which you have to pay for.

muh "no fees" muh "no blockchain" muh iota the savior of all humanity and beyond

[pumpmydump]

The reality is...  Bitcoin and all blockchain currencies are the real scam.

As an engineer, I approve this message:
https://cryptoinsider.com/blockchains-suck/

It was never designed to scale, so it was designed to fail.

Quote from the article:

“But, but, but,” you say, “We need to copy the ledger to prevent rogue data being added! If the data to be copied by neutral parties, they can check that it is hunky-dory.” Shut your stupid mouth, I was getting to that.

This is just sad

[Come-from-Beyond]

Why is PoW on IoT devices is a fundamental mistake?

Your question can be answered with a simple question: "Why?". That PoW inherently has no benefit, and what you consider a IoT device (if the claim from someone else is true) has nothing to do with IoT.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_burden_of_proof:

When two parties are in a discussion and one makes a claim that the other disputes, the one who makes the claim typically has a burden of proof to justify or substantiate that claim especially when it challenges a perceived status quo.

You made a claim (that PoW in IoT is a mistake), I expected you to prove it. Could you expand your proof to make it more convincing?

[cryptohunter]

the best bit about this thread is that only the known iota shills turn up ...and to generate a bit of new support a new sock puppet appears (expert of course knows all about how great iota is and how shit blockchains are) that never thought about joining the board until seeing this thread.

then again could be true i mean iota shills never thought of posting on the main board until the day after the stealth ico was done with ....then they all thought about posting about iota and the coming 1bn MC at once.

I mean they practically told us the manipulative hold the tokens hostage build the fomo scam before it was executed

we shouldn't really pick on iota because a lot of these insta icos are doing the same thing but actually there is less room for error

cfb is a very funny guy too who makes impressive videos so we can go a bit easy on him i guess.... how about we don't touch it until sub 100M so he just gets 100x profits (well more because he didnt have to pay for his tokens he gave himself and his sock puppets)

he should be more than happy with that.

[Come-from-Beyond]

cfb is a very funny guy too who makes impressive videos so we can go a bit easy on him i guess...

Thank you. Those who want to see my latest masterpiece - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM36ED544iE&feature=youtu.be

PS: BTW, it explains why cryptohunter is so angry at IOTA...

[Come-from-Beyond]

He is just a trader, he doesn't care what shit he trades.

[pumpmydump]

As per the "whitepaper" which you supposedly read:

"When a new transaction arrives, it must approve two previous transactions" (yea that sentence makes no sense, the author of the whitepaper means that to issue a transaction a node first has to approve two other transactions of the "tangle")

and

More specifically, to issue a transaction, a node does the following:

 First, it chooses two other transactions to approve (in general, these two transactions may coincide), according to some algorithm.
 It checks if the two transactions are not conflicting and do not approve conflicting transactions.
 For the transaction to be valid, the node must solve a cryptographic puzzle (which may be computationally demanding) similar to those in the Bitcoin mining (e.g., it needs to find a nonce such that the hash of that nonce together with some data from the approved transactions has a particular form, for instance, has at least some fixed number of zeros in front).

So you say there are no transaction fees in IOTA, but to issue a transaction a node has to pick two other transactions to approve according to some algorithm, has to check if the two transactions are not conflicting according to another algorithm, if they are conflicting the node has to run an algorithm to decide which transaction to approve (this algorithm may take a lot of time to finish), and then the node has to solve a cryptographic puzzle (potentially computationally demanding again) to validate each transaction.

So great you don't have to send tokens to the network to issue a transaction but you have to do all that shit, how wouldn't you call that "fees"? It takes computing power, it takes time, it takes energy, those are fees which you have to pay for.

muh "no fees" muh "no blockchain" muh iota the savior of all humanity and beyond

OMG this is so funny...  Please keep on talking. Show the world your brilliant ignorance.

Do you even know the difference between an IOTA Light Node and Full Node? Please do learn and then come back. Otherwise you just look ridiculous.

You do realize "all that shit" that needs to be done is a very very small amount compared to what needs to be done in blockchain based currencies, and yet blockchains STILL require fees?  Not only that, but most of the processing that is done by blockchain miners doesn't even get rewarded, they call those orphan blocks.  Do you know what orphan blocks are? They are a fucking disgrace to humanity and engineers around the world. They are a waste of time, money, resources, and provide nothing but heat and pollution to the world.  Yeah, it also means blockchains are not scalable, and they are unsustainable. https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/ae3p7e/bitcoin-is-unsustainable

The PoW on IOTA is trivial compared to the insanity that needs to be done by blockchain miners, and again you STILL have to pay extra fees with blockchains. Good one!

lol why so angry?

Where are light nodes and full nodes mentioned in the iota whitepaper? If you have other technical documentation about iota give it to me by all means

When you issue a transaction on a blockchain you don't have to spend nearly as much computing resources / energy as when you issue a transaction on iota, what you spend is a fee destined to those who spend those computing resources for you

As to the "triviality" of the "PoW" on iota, let's see it work in practice, cause what I've seen in the whitepaper makes me think this isn't going to be as trivial as you guys think it is

[Come-from-Beyond]

let's see it work in practice

It's the most favorite "argument" of those who lose in a dispute.