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Author Topic: [ANN] PayPie - Blockchain-Powered Risk Assessment  (Read 109504 times)
Altcoinster
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October 03, 2017, 11:56:24 PM
 #2961

So many posts in here without any value. Would be happy if people would bring back some challenging and constructive discussions into this thread again.

There isn't much to say anymore, we're waiting for pre-sale announcement and 15th october for ICO start. If you want we can discuss on this maybe https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/feb/14/credit-rating-remortgage-equifax-experian-callcredit .No more mistakes with PayPie Wink

Lets see when the pre sale will happen, I think about an investment here, but I am not sure..
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October 04, 2017, 12:10:41 AM
 #2962

So many posts in here without any value. Would be happy if people would bring back some challenging and constructive discussions into this thread again.

There isn't much to say anymore, we're waiting for pre-sale announcement and 15th october for ICO start. If you want we can discuss on this maybe https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/feb/14/credit-rating-remortgage-equifax-experian-callcredit .No more mistakes with PayPie Wink

Lets see when the pre sale will happen, I think about an investment here, but I am not sure..
Yeah, I know what you mean, I think I will do a bit more research first. They have a solid white paper though! This is more of a long term investment I believe.

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October 04, 2017, 01:00:29 AM
 #2963

REMINDER:

  Pre-Sale Date & Details
TBA

  Pre-Sale Individual Minimum
1 ETH

  Pre-Sale Individual Cap
100 ETH
 
  Pre-Sale Will Be Announced
At least 3 days before pre-sale starts

  Regular Tokensale Runs
From Oct 15 till Nov 15, 2017

  Soft Cap
4,500,000 PPP

  Hard Cap
82,500,000 PPP

  Price per Token
1 PPP = 0.0011 ETH
1 ETH = 909 PPP

  Minimum to Invest During Regular Tokensale
1 ETH

  Maximum limit to invest during regular ICO
No individual cap

  Currency accepted
Ethereum (ETH)

  Whitelist
No

  KYC for ICO
No

  Tokens delivery
Within 14 business days after completion of ICO

  Wallet suggestion
MEW https://www.myetherwallet.com/


I figured that the maximum cap will be only $ 26.3 million. This pleased. Iso end in a few minutes.
Yeah ico ends as soon as it begins without whitelist and its not designed for smaller investors minimum buy is 1eth :/ still maybe this will shake off the flippers of icos,the less flippers the more successfull project will be in the long run Smiley
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October 04, 2017, 01:24:45 AM
 #2964

Quote
Pre-Sale Individual Minimum 1 ETH

Thats mean, that minimum requiment for taking part in pre-sale only 1 ETH? I understand everything correctly?
Which bonuses will be on pre-sale?
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October 04, 2017, 02:40:22 AM
 #2965

I cant find Paypie when i search their telegram channel. Any one know why?
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October 04, 2017, 02:52:20 AM
 #2966

You are forgetting the fact that changing the beneficiary name is part of the Smart Contract. If it’s a brand new customer, risk would be shown as high. Nick has mentioned that if it’s a repeat customer with long history and business has good financial health, it will improve the risk score. Further they mentioned that they will do KYC on all SMEs looking for liquidity. All this would be on top of the standard financial process that would be in place to prevent loan defaults or steps to take to aid debt recovery. In fact there are debt collection mechanisms that are well established in offline financial industry. You lend money only to businesses who have sound financial health and they just need it for short period to manage their cash flow. Other companies can't even check the double invoicing issue becuase invoice entry is manual so anyone can enter it.

The risk score shouldn't have anything to do with the SME selling the invoice since they are not the one to settle it, so doing KYC on the SME is useless too.
The right thing to do is to do risk score and KYC on the entity listed in the invoice, but this will introduce more complication into the business model.

If there is default, how exactly will PayPie recover it?
Will it be under PayPie's responsibility, or others?
If it is others, then the cost incurred in recovery will be borne by others, i.e. the token holders.
Of course there are debt collection mechanisms in offline industry, which is exactly why I said the recovery involves persistent threats; debt collecting agencies keep calling up the debtors with threats of legal actions. In fact if the debtors know their rights, they can refuse to pay altogether and if the debt collecting agency wants to pursue the matter legally, it would be costly to the agency.

How can you even be sure a business has sound financial health? Please refer to Enron.


     
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Dorky
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October 04, 2017, 02:58:58 AM
 #2967

If you have been doing business with Noke for years and Nike has always paid you,why wouldn't it pay to invoice buyer?If Nike default,it would also damage their image and position in finance market?
Also this anwer your qustion Further they mentioned that they will do KYC on all SMEs looking for liquidity. All this would be on top of the standard financial process that would be in place to prevent loan defaults or steps to take to aid debt recovery. In fact there are debt collection mechanisms that are well established in offline financial industry.

Why wouldn't Nike pay to invoice buyer?
Simple, you will stop calling Nike to pay up.
Nike will prolong the payment well beyond 120 days.
Indeed Nike default will damage their reputation, but this is what's always happening to at least 50% of all businesses out there, all the time.
Otherwise, such thing should have ceased to happen since hundreds of years ago, but not.

Like I said, doing KYC on the SME is not the point.
An SME that care more about its financial survival will care less about reputation.

Care to explain who will employ the debt collection mechanisms? You? PayPie?


     
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October 04, 2017, 03:01:35 AM
 #2968

No worries with regards to unpaid invoices. Everyone can always go to courts to assert their rights, especially in financial obligations.

Have you ever actually gone to court yourself?

I have not, but I heard from directors and business owners the process takes many months if not years.
And it costs them lawyer's fees far more than the amount owed to them.
The only thing they gained out of this is the satisfaction of suing the defendant into defeat, nothing else (not financial recovery).
What, you think this is an easy stuff?


     
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October 04, 2017, 03:07:56 AM
 #2969

No worries with regards to unpaid invoices. Everyone can always go to courts to assert their rights, especially in financial obligations.

Have you ever actually gone to court yourself?

I have not, but I heard from directors and business owners the process takes many months if not years.
What, you think this is an easy stuff?
Its a mess one, big mess Cheesy costly too until u win the court hearing,if u win in the first place ..Legal system all around a world is messed up,complicated as f*&$ maybe paypie will influance and fill a gap in legal system,at least we can hope for that :d
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October 04, 2017, 03:10:37 AM
 #2970

Its a mess one, big mess Cheesy costly too until u win the court hearing,if u win in the first place ..Legal system all around a world is messed up,complicated as f*&$ maybe paypie will influance and fill a gap in legal system,at least we can hope for that :d

Sorry I did some addition info to my original post before your quote.
Yes, they are fucking messed up, but remember PayPie is an accounting software vendor working on blockchain-based.
It is not a legal firm and cannot be assumed to have the right competency.


     
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October 04, 2017, 03:17:14 AM
 #2971

Its a mess one, big mess Cheesy costly too until u win the court hearing,if u win in the first place ..Legal system all around a world is messed up,complicated as f*&$ maybe paypie will influance and fill a gap in legal system,at least we can hope for that :d

Sorry I did some addition info to my original post before your quote.
Yes, they are fucking messed up, but remember PayPie is an accounting software vendor working on blockchain-based.
It is not a legal firm and cannot be assumed to have the right competency.
Yeah but maybe this accounting software will evolve to something bigger Cheesy or quickens the court hearing time when it gains creditability ..Still crypto is just starting to influance the other spheres who know what projects like paypie can accomplish in long run
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October 04, 2017, 03:19:01 AM
 #2972

Populous beats PayPie in this from the very start by introducing the requirement for credit insurance, director's guarantee, and company debenture.
I can assure you, having worked in banking and credit reporting agency in some part of my life, I can tell you these requirements are super solid stuff in preventing defaults.
While Populous is an invoice trading platform, it also employs the proven risk scoring metric that is Altman Z-score to evaluate the SME's financial health, check it out yourself.
The metric is proven to work with pretty high accuracy; there is absolutely no need for some unverified "most accurate" risk scoring metric/algorithm to do the same job.
Populous extracts SME's financial information from public official sources submitted by the SMEs themselves, so the info is as legitimate as it can get.
By using insurance, guarantee, and debenture on the invoice, Populous is shifting the weakest link from the entity stated in the invoice to the SME that sells it, and also legally securing it as well at the same time.
So any SME can sell its invoices, regardless of investment-grade or junk, safely with very low risk of default.
Populous is doing everything right.

I have experience in banking and credit reporting agency as part of my working past.
While attached to a credit reporting agency, I got to meet with countless directors and business owners sharing their stories with me on debt recovery and its problems and I can tell you its far more complicated than you think from the outside.


     
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bitsurfer2014
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October 04, 2017, 03:49:37 AM
 #2973

No worries with regards to unpaid invoices. Everyone can always go to courts to assert their rights, especially in financial obligations.

Have you ever actually gone to court yourself?

I have not, but I heard from directors and business owners the process takes many months if not years.
And it costs them lawyer's fees far more than the amount owed to them.
The only thing they gained out of this is the satisfaction of suing the defendant into defeat, nothing else (not financial recovery).
What, you think this is an easy stuff?

In reality, every financial transaction has the possibility to fail and that is why business endeavor is called risk taking. Legal remedies is one way deterring other people from committing fraud. Or, is there any other way you can suggest?
Dorky
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October 04, 2017, 03:51:55 AM
 #2974

In reality, every financial transaction has the possibility to fail and that is why business endeavor is called risk taking. Legal remedies is one way deterring other people from committing fraud. Or, is there any other way you can suggest?

Populous solved the risk of default thru insurance, guarantee, and debenture, making sure invoices trading in its platform/exchange is as good as investment-grade quality.

PayPie can adopt the same/similar solution but of course this will make PayPie more like Populous than PayPie itself.


     
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Voltaje
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October 04, 2017, 04:24:37 AM
 #2975

Its a mess one, big mess Cheesy costly too until u win the court hearing,if u win in the first place ..Legal system all around a world is messed up,complicated as f*&$ maybe paypie will influance and fill a gap in legal system,at least we can hope for that :d

Sorry I did some addition info to my original post before your quote.
Yes, they are fucking messed up, but remember PayPie is an accounting software vendor working on blockchain-based.
It is not a legal firm and cannot be assumed to have the right competency.

Actually, the company that created the project is a legit software accounting company with many years of experiences, so yeah, they have all the competencies for a project like this, they know the market and know what it needs to be improved.
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October 04, 2017, 04:41:01 AM
 #2976

Paypie start to build a great reputation in crypto world. A lot of good people in crypto talk about paypie and the visibility of the project is huge. For me paypie is one of the most bankable project of this year, one with most possibility and potential. Disruptive technologie and huge team.

Yeah, Paypie's potential seems to be pretty good. I am planning to spare few ETH for crowdsale so, that I don't miss the train.
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October 04, 2017, 05:16:28 AM
 #2977

Its a mess one, big mess Cheesy costly too until u win the court hearing,if u win in the first place ..Legal system all around a world is messed up,complicated as f*&$ maybe paypie will influance and fill a gap in legal system,at least we can hope for that :d

Sorry I did some addition info to my original post before your quote.
Yes, they are fucking messed up, but remember PayPie is an accounting software vendor working on blockchain-based.
It is not a legal firm and cannot be assumed to have the right competency.

Actually, the company that created the project is a legit software accounting company with many years of experiences, so yeah, they have all the competencies for a project like this, they know the market and know what it needs to be improved.

Exact: the existence of a legit company is a huge plus (see OMG...)

I saw your post on Elix, and read others: your are truly one of the fews here with common sense and understanding of the crypto markets.
I am glad to see you on PayPie and Napoleon, both ICOs I am looking to at the moment.

Cheers.
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October 04, 2017, 05:16:50 AM
Last edit: October 04, 2017, 06:20:05 AM by Dorky
 #2978

Actually, the company that created the project is a legit software accounting company with many years of experiences, so yeah, they have all the competencies for a project like this, they know the market and know what it needs to be improved.

Sure, I believe the company is legitimate too. No doubt, there is no issue of scam. But this is not my point.
Every transaction involves risk, and a mechanism needs to be in place to significantly reduce, if not eliminate, such risk.
So far I really don't see any mechanism in place to deal with such risk.
Like I said before, it means nothing to do risk scoring and/or KYC on the SMEs selling the invoice, because they are not the weakest link.

PayPie is basically just trying to indirectly monetize its SlickPie customer base through blockchain.
Everything else is hype.
No doubt its customer base may grow.
But the issue here is the quality of the invoices that will be traded at PayPie market/platform/exchange.
How will PayPie try to prevent and/or recover any default?
Sure all transaction has risks, but if no mechanism is in place to reduce the risk, then you can bet things will 100% go out of control.
I say it again, risk scoring and/or KYC on the SMEs are irrelevant.

Edit:
The kind of competency I meant relates to legal competency, not accounting software competency.

Edit #2:
Waiting for the SMEs' invoices to default (and cause token holders to lose money) before we know who to stay away from, is a very bad approach.
If 1000 of SlickPie's customers unknowingly submit $100,000 worth of invoices to sell that will end up default, that translates to $100 million of loss.
And without any mechanism in place to enforce the quality of invoices to sell, SMEs (regardless of their credit scores) will naturally try to sell the ones with lowest chance of recovery.
And the worse part of PayPie's mechanism is that such junk invoices will actually be sold based on bidding process (!) as if the bidders would know any better.

Edit #3:
What makes Populous stands out is that there is no transfer of ownership of the invoices (unlike PayPie) and so the SME will still have obligation to do the recovery for the buyers.
And Populous shifts the weakest link from the entity-debtor to the SME-seller, put a risk scoring on it based on the proven Altman Z-score metric with insurance, guarantee, and/or debenture for safety.
No doubt Populous will have a much harder time trying to penetrate larger market share with such strict requirement, but rest assured most (if not all) invoices that will be traded at Populous will be high-quality stuffs.


     
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mike0182
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October 04, 2017, 06:07:29 AM
 #2979

why does not their site work? https://www.paypie.com/
Something happened?

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October 04, 2017, 06:12:19 AM
 #2980

why does not their site work? https://www.paypie.com/
Something happened?


Problem with the host.
Will be fixed soon so you can check the counttime timer again!
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