[ANN][ICO] [NaPoleonX] 1st 🌟French🌟 algorithmic crypto asset manager 🚀

[PS92]

Hi guys, i didn't see it mentioned in the blackpaper, but will the bots also be using arbitrage? Automated arbitrage can be quite profitable, especially in crypto.

Great question, would like to know as well. Devs?

[KryptoKings]

Everybody seems confused here and nobody is giving answers.
GAS is a confusing word because so many projects are using it.

Reading at all the comments, you are right that there is a confusion. Here gas = 25% performance fees = right by DAFs to use trading algos. Performance engines (=algos) need gas to function.

[KryptoKings]

I would like the team to clearly and concise communicate their usp as compared to the numerous bot, algo, AI, hybrid AI trading Projects out there, this would simplify a great deal for me.

One of the key issues for me is that this team has solid background from non crypto trading. If they can leverage that and team with good crypto analyst this has great potential.

You have a lot of ways to build a trading strategy depending on your background:
1. discretionary trading: people rely on your ability to read tea leafs trade after trade
2. AI: it is a systematic approach where you feed your data into a blackbox and get a trading decision in return. You need to train them with data set and so to work very hard on these data set. These need to be trained regularly from experience. When do you decide to train them again is more art than science.
3. traditional algos: they are based on market observations and a representation that you may have on the markets. This is very close to a physicist approach. These algos need also to be monitored on a regular basis as market dynamics may change over time.

You are right that our background is from non crypto trading, but to be frank, crypto trading is pretty recent. We are used to generate performance using one asset and to export it into another currency ("quanto trading") and that is essentially what we would be doing here using a "currency hedging strategy" described in our Blackpaper. However, we reckon that this crypto world will have its own dynamics and partnerng with longstanding crypto traders would open up possibilities for us. We are eager to learn every day. We have also designed a simple market timing algo between BTC and USD that is working quite well with a trade every 6 weeks on average.

[KryptoKings]

Hi, i didnt get the part where it states that the bots are running on gas and 85% of it, is paid to the token holders who selected the bots.

Could you clarify what the gas is in your psroject? some kind of performance value? Or just a cost you define?

Quite impressed by your team btw.

Good question. While reading the whitepaper I was confused with the gas here. I was thinking about either it is the ether gas or it is the coin GAS, but I think it can't be.

I am not sure but i understand it like these: When bot makes a move for you, it gets a little fee everytime. And they are calling it GAS. But of course they will explain it without doubt.

Yeah, that is something I got, but I think they really should change the word for the from GAS to something else :/ GAS is spreading confusion as there are already
Coins (eth) who are using the word gas for fees and also an coin itself which is called GAS. As these are bots, I would like to call it OIL 

Thank you for the tip on oil, we might give you some authorship rights on this. We could also call it petroleum, gasoline, electricity or whatever form of energy. But we take this confusion seriously and will try to change this denomination to avoid confusion.

[KryptoKings]

Hi, i didnt get the part where it states that the bots are running on gas and 85% of it, is paid to the token holders who selected the bots.

Could you clarify what the gas is in your psroject? some kind of performance value? Or just a cost you define?

Quite impressed by your team btw.

Good question. While reading the whitepaper I was confused with the gas here. I was thinking about either it is the ether gas or it is the coin GAS, but I think it can't be.

I am not sure but i understand it like these: When bot makes a move for you, it gets a little fee everytime. And they are calling it GAS. But of course they will explain it without doubt.

You can see your TX fee (gas limit * gas price) in ETH & USD when you search for your transaction on etherscan.io. This is not a TX fee that MyEtherWallet, or any other service provider, receives. This fee is paid to miners for mining transactions, putting them into blocks, and securing the blockchain.
The total cost of a transaction (the "TX fee") is the Gas Limit * Gas Price.
Typically, if someone just says "Gas", they are talking about the "Gas Limit".

I always though GAS was a small amount of ether, also called gwei. Is that what investors are getting?

No there is definitively a confusion with our Gas concept and we will change it. Here the gas = 25% of positive performance paid by the DAFs for having the right to use a performing bots. This is some kind of energy that is requested to make the DAF work. Any idea about rebranding is welcome. Someone mentioned oil.

[Yauthitdar]

As per OP, DAF is first introduce at the NapoleonX White Paper on December 2016?
White Paper has been published since that date? Why launch just now?

We needed some time to gather the right team as you can imagine for this kind of project. We needed to prepare additional material as well and design an ICO strategy for which we were not prepared at the time. This is a quite new market and we wanted to understand how it works. We want to build for the long term not be here for a quick win.

thanks for honest explanation.im pretty new to bots but i will watch this project closely.

[KryptoKings]

so how is your fee structure compare to others for management of funds?

Most of other funds charge:
1. upfront fee to subscribe to a fund. We have seen some fees being as high as 10% potentially
2. management fees as a fixed fee on asset under management. We have seen level of 2%, and has been a benchmark for traditional hedge fund, even though they have come under serious pressure in this industry
3. performance fee: paid out of positive performance only. We have seen 20% level as is usual for Hedge fund industry there too
4. Transaction fee: not completely sure what it covers

We are proposing:
1. performance fees only to align investors and asset managers interest. We have set the level @25% of positive performance using a high water mark feature. If performance is more than 8%, then we are earning more than the 2% management fee + 20% performance fee above. We are true believer in attracting volumes by aligning interest between all participants and making things simpler. 

[KryptoKings]

I see so many people have difficulty understanding the project. It would be nice if someone from the team explains things.

Good idea, best option is to make some kind of FAQ and pinn it on ANN post and somewhere on their website. Only people with understanding of this project will invest in it

I'm studying the whitepaper now
I hope I will understand there platform and if I do, I will post a summary here about NaPoleonX . I like trading bots so this will be a project of my heart.

Keep it up team!

Thank you for your kind words. We want to release some of our platform features in the next few weeks, before the ICO is officially launch so that people can judge by themselves on our delivery capabilities. You should have access to our strategies through this directly. Of course the actual trading strategy code will not be open source ...

[tiger5056]

so how is your fee structure compare to others for management of funds?

Most of other funds charge:
1. upfront fee to subscribe to a fund. We have seen some fees being as high as 10% potentially
2. management fees as a fixed fee on asset under management. We have seen level of 2%, and has been a benchmark for traditional hedge fund, even though they have come under serious pressure in this industry
3. performance fee: paid out of positive performance only. We have seen 20% level as is usual for Hedge fund industry there too
4. Transaction fee: not completely sure what it covers

We are proposing:
1. performance fees only to align investors and asset managers interest. We have set the level @25% of positive performance using a high water mark feature. If performance is more than 8%, then we are earning more than the 2% management fee + 20% performance fee above. We are true believer in attracting volumes by aligning interest between all participants and making things simpler. 

thanks for explaining in detail. appreciated. heard good news about french media coverage talk about CEO. nice job

[KryptoKings]

Love the idea of being able to be a part of a trading bot without shelling out the high upfront costs or needing to spend hours figuring out how to tweak and set it up. 

The token holder payout of 85% of gas seems very fair as well - as someone else mentioned, a calculator would be a great tool to allow potential investors to play around with how the numbers may work out.

Currently going through the whitepaper in more detail to gain a stronger understanding but looking forward to following along.

Hello heyjoe,

I put the answer done to levyashin:

Some projects make a little calculator tool, will you do one?

It's like:
User will write amount of npx you hold or thinking to hold or just random number just see the result
He will choose a revenue on menu,
and calculator gives the montly profit will token holder will get.
It gets very helpful when investing. You know what to expect.

Hello levyashin,

We will think about that. However, we have to check if it is possible to do so from a legal point of view. But the math is quite easy to do. You can get an idea of the performances of our trading bots from the blackpaper : http://blackpaper.napoleonx.ai
From the performance, you derived the gas which equals 25% of the performance and then NPX tokens holders gets 85% of that. You will quickly see that it is a business volume. The more is raised in DAFs, the more to the NPX token holders at the end!

The performance metrics is from backtesting the strategies on historical data?

The advantage of developing algorithm is that you can backtest them. So what we show in our Blackpaper is indeed a backtest. However, we should stress that one of the developed model has been used for several underlyings to demonstrate its robustness. We have also a very low trading frequency to avoid having large tracking error between our backtest and the live version. At last, Stephane Ifrah, one of the founder, has been using algos for more than 9 years for his own use. We have also put some of our trading strategy on an index publisher that we have developed using a test ethereum blockchain. We will release it very soon.

Thanks for the feedback. Indeed backtesting is beneficial but to render the metrics you have the algo must have been tweeked to that specific dataset imo. Looking forward to have a look on the index publ

You are raising an important point here on overfitting. We are very acute of any such risk and the strategies presented in our Blackpaper are for a large part the same strategy applied to different and unrelated markets. This is one of our selection criteria when we select an algo. We want it to be applicable to different markets so that we believe that we are closer to the modelisation of human behavior than overfitting.

[windreamteam]

Napoleonx is a good project but what i find interesting is the name. We all know when we love the history and all the items that when an object is related to napoleon it goes to the sky, the stamp, painting, coin ect.... everything XD Here thanks to the name we already have a valuable thing. It's kind of a joke but there is a reality in my words so..... we will se if history repeats again.

[KryptoKings]

A trading bot to manage crypto assets? And what the holders of the tokens will receive, I still do not understand. How to apply tokens, I did not find in the documents, or did not see. From the video viewing is also not clear. Developers need to explain these issues in more detail.

Hello viljy,

Our trading bot are not design to give you a diversifying strategy, they are designed to generate performance. Either from the crypto, or from the real assets. In both case, such trading bots are embedded into a DAO and the performance is brought back to the crypo world.

NPX token holders will be awarded with 85% of the gas (Performance Fees generated by all the DAFs) and will be paid each month in DAF tokens.

Is it clearer?

Thank you, now I almost imagine that a trading bot will only improve performance, and decisions need to be made independently. And I first thought that the bot would trade completely independently.
Means profit will be paid in your DAF tokens, which, probably, can be sold. On how many exchanges do you plan to include a token in the listing, and on which exchanges? If of course now it is in the plans, well, or supposedly known.

Our intention is to have a dual listing whenever possible for all our tokens. We have initiated conversations with different exchanges but have not concluded any agreement yet. Of course, should we reach such agreement we would communicate on this.

[KryptoKings]

I am trying to understand further , what is different than other projects like realto.ai? Competition is significant in this field.

It is true that you have a lot of projects that are promising to manage money for investors. Which is kind of amusing as the crypto community was kind of proud to have escaped the banking industry and one of the most crowded segment is in "finance".

One of our main differentiator is that we are proposing a library of existing algos and to monetize them through the launch of an asset manager to benefit from diversification. Also most of our algos will be getting their performance in the traditional asset space but with a very limited currency risk through our currency hedging strategy described in our Blackpaper.

[KryptoKings]

Are you planing on using AI/Deep Learning for the bots?

Our own existing bots do not currently use AI / Deep Learning as we have had a more physicist approach in our R&D. However, we are familiar with Machine Learning techniques as both Arnaud and myself met at an Executive program around Datascience at the Ecole Polytechnique a little almost 3 years ago. As long as it makes money, is systematic, has a low frequency trading and few operational associated risk, it would qualify for us.

[KryptoKings]

Given the impressive bot metrics as presented in the whitepaper. What is the reason to concern yourselfs with building a service/company around this rather than capitalising on the trading?

I have benefited, and still continue to do so, for years. However managing money is one thing, building a business around this capacity is another. I was lucky enough to work in an Advisory firm (EY), hopefully not too long, to get this business approach. I was also lucky enough to meet a few people of our team there with a great entrepreneurship approach. Launching this business is really the opportunity to write history in a brave new crypto world and contribute to this differently than just scalping the markets.

[Elkmar]

Seeing your thread, you understood one really important thing, community is everything.

On 99% of crypto projects, there is an answer for one post every 10 pages.

Here you take the time to answer every question. Honestly, I begin to gain real interest in your project.

I'll take a deep look into all your papers, and see what a big investment could make me earn 

[KryptoKings]

And, please if you mind, elaborate on your usp compared to Enigma Catalyst, thanks

As far as I understand this project, they're goal is to gather, organize and provide data for algo trading but not provide actual money making strategies. To me, and without deep knowledge of their actual value proposal, they could be some kind of Bloomberg / Reuters for crypto assets, which would be great news for us as we would get raw material to design algos.

[KryptoKings]

Is this only ICO? Can i mine this with GPU or not worths? And on what exchanges will be listed in future?

We have only initiated conversations with several exchanges at this stage and not conclude any agreement so far. Our wish is to have at least 2 exchanges for listing our tokens to provide some security nets and more convenience, bearing in mind that not only will we want to list NPX token, but also all the DAF tokens.

[KryptoKings]

Hi guys, i didn't see it mentioned in the blackpaper, but will the bots also be using arbitrage? Automated arbitrage can be quite profitable, especially in crypto.

We have not designed specific arbitrage bots so far and have been more developing market timing bots. We do believe that on a long term basis, there should not be any arbitrage left when the crypto market will mature. But this would be a cool and almost risk free way to make money given the large discrrepancies between exchanges at the moment.

[KryptoKings]

I read (correct me if im wrong please)that when some profit is generated, the plan is to pay back the token holders by generating new tokens.
Not sayng this is a bad idea, but doesnt this risk to slow down the price of the token itself?

Gas consumption   is   set   at   25%   of   Performance.
As   an   example,   if,   at   the   beginning   of   a   month,   a   DAF   has   a   Net   Asset   Value   of   100’000   ETH,   and   if   there   
are   100’000   DAF   tokens,   then   the   NAV   of   the   DAF   token   amounts   to   1   ETH.   If   the   Performance   is   10%   at   
the   end   of   such   month,   then   the   gross   performance   (execution   costs   excluded)   is   of   10’000   ETH,   of   which   
2’500    ETH    represents    the gas    consumption    (25%    of    10’000    ETH).    As    a    consequence,    at    the    end    of    the   
month,   the   Net   Asset   Value   of   a   DAF   token   equals   1   x   (1   +   10%   x   (1-25%))   =   1.075   ETH.   Then,   2’325.5814   
DAF    tokens    (2’500/1.075)    shall    be    issued    among    which    1’976.74419    (85%    x    2’325.5814)    shall    be   
allocated    to    the   NPX    token   holders   having   participated    to    the    voting   sessions   involving    the   eligibility    of   
the   trading   bots   used   by   the   DAF.

The NAV (Net Asset Value) of your DAF token would factor in this mechanism on a daily basis like normal traditional funds work, through the use of provisions, that can increase or decrease depending on positive or negative performance. Hence, when it is paid / detached, this has already been factored in. The real advantage we are seeing in this mechanism is that we avoid ETH transfer, hence risk, and the DAFs NAV do not change when these tokens are issued.