[ANN] Datacoin - Censorship-Free Data Storage

[Verionum]

Note that Apertus does this -- it is dynamic and active on the chain in real time.
It uses the Root ID to extract etchings that Apertus created -- you simply put the Root ID into the browser box -- Apertus is linked in real time with Datacoin -- it then pulls it up.

Good. For popularity it must be user friendly and very simple.

[DataSea]

Note that Apertus does this -- it is dynamic and active on the chain in real time.
It uses the Root ID to extract etchings that Apertus created -- you simply put the Root ID into the browser box -- Apertus is linked in real time with Datacoin -- it then pulls it up.

Good. For popularity it must be user friendly and very simple.

It needs work -- it's not very easy to set up -- there's a learning curve.
I'll be clear --We Need Help!

https://github.com/HugPuddle/Apertus

[MarcusDe]

I have some doubts.

For few previous years of almost dead dtc the huge amount of coins are concentrated in one hands.

F.e. https://chainz.cryptoid.info/dtc/address.dws?61563.htm with 11 mln coins.

I see the stable ammount 14 dtc clients of very old version. Not 0.8.6. Not 0.8.5.

It is 0.8.3 !!! version.

https://chainz.cryptoid.info/dtc/#!network

May be it is the same persons.

I think it is very bad. Such big coins holders and old node holders prevent the people trust dtc and prevent the progress and development of dtc.

May be we need restart dtc blockchain from new origin block.

For me, whoever want to restart blockchain is enemy of the coin, not it's friend.
This coin is all about blockchain stability and information inside.

If some people want nothing but fast profit, please find another victim coin :-D

[muf18]

I have some doubts.

For few previous years of almost dead dtc the huge amount of coins are concentrated in one hands.

F.e. https://chainz.cryptoid.info/dtc/address.dws?61563.htm with 11 mln coins.

I see the stable ammount 14 dtc clients of very old version. Not 0.8.6. Not 0.8.5.

It is 0.8.3 !!! version.

https://chainz.cryptoid.info/dtc/#!network

May be it is the same persons.

I think it is very bad. Such big coins holders and old node holders prevent the people trust dtc and prevent the progress and development of dtc.

May be we need restart dtc blockchain from new origin block.

For me, whoever want to restart blockchain is enemy of the coin, not it's friend.
This coin is all about blockchain stability and information inside.

If some people want nothing but fast profit, please find another victim coin :-D

Well you shouldn't talk I think, it's normal that the biggest holders have vested interest in keeping blockchain as it is.

[Verionum]

Dtc (and primecoin) has interesting coin emission algorithm. The block reward very quickly drops with difficulty growing.

It seems the dtc is designed to make rich the first miners, but not next miners.

It seems not very fair.

Dtc has no active development team.

It seems there are a few interested people. But they are not active developers. They just see, talk and wait.

There are a few big holders. And they don't want to change something. They prefer the dtc death then to lost their coins. They just see, talk and wait too.

Twitter site has many repeated and pretentious messages. I don't want to hurt somebody,  but It is seems as scam. It is very bad for dtc reputation.

If nothing changed - dtc will die.

At present I help and will help to dtc.

You can hate me. But if nothing changed - I will think about create a new dev team for new coin with the same data saving ideology but without such unfair emission algorithm and without such hard legacy.

[pepi]

Dtc (and primecoin) has interesting coin emission algorithm. The block reward very quickly drops with difficulty growing.

It seems the dtc is designed to make rich the first miners, but not next miners.

It seems not very fair.

Dtc has no active development team.

It seems there are a few interested people. But they are not active developers. They just see, talk and wait.

There are a few big holders. And they don't want to change something. They prefer the dtc death then to lost their coins. They just see, talk and wait too.

Twitter site has many repeated and pretentious messages. I don't want to hurt somebody,  but It is seems as scam. It is very bad for dtc reputation.

If nothing changed - dtc will die.

At present I help and will help to dtc.

You can hate me. But if nothing changed - I will think about create a new dev team for new coin with the same data saving ideology but without such unfair emission algorithm and without such hard legacy.

I dont know what is cost of making new coin ( I assume that must cost is getting market for new coin) but many coins died, and only few of them success. So if you are not obligated in any way to datacoin ( and you are not ), and since you write and develop wallets that are ultrastable  and without virus warning at all, then I will first be to support you and new coin you make. I assume that new coin will be fork of data or primeccoin, so we already have miners, and already have wallets. Good for start.
If someone will loose 11M coins then should be that way. At low difficulty it is not problem at all to have such sum of coin...
  

[muf18]

Dtc (and primecoin) has interesting coin emission algorithm. The block reward very quickly drops with difficulty growing.

It seems the dtc is designed to make rich the first miners, but not next miners.

It seems not very fair.

Dtc has no active development team.

It seems there are a few interested people. But they are not active developers. They just see, talk and wait.

There are a few big holders. And they don't want to change something. They prefer the dtc death then to lost their coins. They just see, talk and wait too.

Twitter site has many repeated and pretentious messages. I don't want to hurt somebody,  but It is seems as scam. It is very bad for dtc reputation.

If nothing changed - dtc will die.

At present I help and will help to dtc.

You can hate me. But if nothing changed - I will think about create a new dev team for new coin with the same data saving ideology but without such unfair emission algorithm and without such hard legacy.

Of course you are right - those big holders are MarcusDE, OP (extro24), probably a few others.

It's not a scam, but they are awaiting to revive their bags they were mining this whole time. When somebody has 1M+ or 200K+ DTC, they have of course a lot vested interest in reviving dollar value of their bags. So you know, if you dont have interest in it - you dont have any obligation towards them. I will support you in creating new coin, with same goals, you have done a lot of for DTC, and nobody really rewarded you. I'm not a big holder of DTC, but idea was interesting to keep around and see, how it will develop.

[pepi]

Dtc (and primecoin) has interesting coin emission algorithm. The block reward very quickly drops with difficulty growing.

It seems the dtc is designed to make rich the first miners, but not next miners.

It seems not very fair.

Dtc has no active development team.

It seems there are a few interested people. But they are not active developers. They just see, talk and wait.

There are a few big holders. And they don't want to change something. They prefer the dtc death then to lost their coins. They just see, talk and wait too.

Twitter site has many repeated and pretentious messages. I don't want to hurt somebody,  but It is seems as scam. It is very bad for dtc reputation.

If nothing changed - dtc will die.

At present I help and will help to dtc.

You can hate me. But if nothing changed - I will think about create a new dev team for new coin with the same data saving ideology but without such unfair emission algorithm and without such hard legacy.

Of course you are right - those big holders are MarcusDE, OP (extro24), probably a few others.

It's not a scam, but they are awaiting to revive their bags they were mining this whole time. When somebody has 1M+ or 200K+ DTC, they have of course a lot vested interest in reviving dollar value of their bags. So you know, if you dont have interest in it - you dont have any obligation towards them. I will support you in creating new coin, with same goals, you have done a lot of for DTC, and nobody really rewarded you. I'm not a big holder of DTC, but idea was interesting to keep around and see, how it will develop.

Any cryptocoin worth big zero. We, users, peoples that mine , buy, trade, make some coins worth more then other coin. So if someone mine 1M of DTC and waiting, keep them waiting forever. No one here has any obligation to those persons. So lets they wait, and lets we here, make new coin and make something different, and make new coin some sense, some price.

[muf18]

I think that reward cycle with going bigger and smaller, was something for a few miners to keep mining coin, and when it gains interest it would drop - but it was good for Peercoin and other PoW/PoS, or PoW/PoS/PoB coins.
I don't know why sunnyking keep that emission cycle for Primecoin - it's solely PoW coin, so it doesn't make sense to me to drop rewards, when new miners come along to mine a coin.

From emission cycle of Datacoin we can clearly see, that some entities (or one entity) was mining coin whole time (from 2014 till 2017 september with super low diff), even tho chain should die, because it wasn't used from 2014 (and coin wasn't on any exchanges). So it doesn't make any sense to keep chain alive, apart from the reason, that they were mining it at super low difficulty, just to "revive" it later in 2017.

That's just my speculation, but normally, when coin isn't on exchanges, and you can't do anything with it (nor buy/sell, nor anyone is accepting it), chain usually dies.

I can have reasons why Slimcoin has survived this time (it was delisted from all exchanges, but at least, it had other rewards from PoS and PoB, which was why people could have just their wallets/clients turn on to receive rewards and keep chain going forward), and also it had contributors active all the time, unlike Datacoin.

[Chicago]

You can hate me. But if nothing changed - I will think about create a new dev team for new coin with the same data saving ideology but without such unfair emission algorithm and without such hard legacy.

    It sounds like you want to hire full-time developers and software engineers.

    It also sounds like you believe DTC is grossly overvalued.

    I would much rather know there are stakeholders invested in the project with DTC IOUs than to pay big money up front and out-of-pocket to start a new project.

    I am extremely grateful to the contributors who have helped bring new life into Datacoin.
    By mining and volunteering, they've potentially secured future wealth.    

[Lucky-marsik]

Also are there any pools open, where I can mine the coin?

Now is an ideal time to begin mining, with the current low difficulty you can still get a decent amount of coins per day with a single cpu instance

At the moment, everything has changed and it is already extremely not profitable to produce this coin.

[deathmul]

I am ready to donate some coins for serious development of Datacoin. We need plan, marketing and move in this thread.

[Chicago]

At the moment, everything has changed and it is already extremely not profitable to produce this coin.

    Then what you're saying is there are surplus DTC on sale at the exchanges.
    If you want some of them, then you should be happy they're not expensive.

[DataSea]

I hear your concerns Verionum.
My primary degree is in Philosophy, I have a secondary degree in Political Science. I've studied all the different forms of governance and systems.
I share your concerns with the way the reward drops so quickly when the difficulty goes up.
I'm not opposed to hearing ideas on how this coin can be more egalitarian -- however that shouldn't be at the expense of those that worked to get this coin to where it is today -- or at the expense of the need for some degree of scarcity -- without scarcity, it will have no market value and the chain will die.

Whereas you are clearly a gifted and talented developer Verionum, and with the luxury of time to get the necessary work done, I would ask that you work on being a bit more polite to those that are trying their very best to bring Datacoin back.  Note a year ago this coin was at the brink of death. A lot has been done in that time.  If it wasn't for the work of many here, this conversation would not be occurring -- you yourself would not be here now.  So please, understand that good people are here to support your work -- you need to note that some things were put on "hold" until we had a stable wallet. No bigger exchange would touch an 0.8.6 wallet from a small coin -- and any media type of campaign also could not happen until we had a better wallet.
So yes, we are leaning on you right now -- for this you should be applauded -- but note other developers are here to help you with this work, please reach out to them.

Back to the emission alg -- what do you propose the change be?
Even Bitcoin has a way to limit coin emission through block reward cuts over time and difficulty increases -- it can be argued that this is to reward those that got in early so they reinvest in the coin to make it stronger -- and another reason is to create scarcity to give it market power... so i am curious what you have in mind -- please share them -- I'm all about being more fair to miners and new people, but you must weigh the need for some scarcity to give it market value to keep the chain alive too, and the need for first-movers to support ongoing campaigns to expand the coin -- those are both extremely important.

And your concern over the social media campaign is also valid -- but this too was because we had no one in specific charge of this and we had to rely on a quasi-bot to get some action -- perhaps the role of social media can be spread to at least 3 different people scattered around the world so we can get some fresh posts that reflect things in real time.  Extro is only one person -- he's had to wear many hats to get us where we are today -- he can't do everything.  I volunteer to be someone to help keep the Twitter posts fresh -- I keep my pulse on Twitter and in the crypto world -- i can help in this regard.

And I personally think the "hard legacy" is a benefit. Everyone that stood by Datacoin over the years believed in what Datacoin stood for: Censorship-Free Data Storage.
Please keep this in mind -- these people are in this for the right reasons -- it's very difficult to find egalitarian people -- don't throw that away.

We have a great story brewing here -- classic coin comes back from near death... it's ripe for a media campaign, but we've had to be quiet until the network is more robust.

And even right now we still need to do more testing, I can't get the testnet to sync to run these tests -- and I do not want to test this on main net. The last time i stress-tested the network I literally knocked 80% of all wallets offline (about a month ago -- yes, that was me). Unless you think it's ready? Let me know. A few summers ago I ran a similar test and it took TWO WEEKS for the chain to settle in -- MarcusDE was the one who saved it then.

Thank you for your work Verionum -- let's work together to make this a great blockchain
I too am prepared to donate to a fund to get a full-time or a part-time developer(s)...

Kind Regards,
The DataSea

[Chicago]

There is much diplomacy evident in this group.

We will succeed where others have failed to reconcile their differences.

[extro24]

There is much diplomacy evident in this group.

We will succeed where others have failed to reconcile their differences.

Such a lovely statement.  

Over the past 24 hours 110000DTC was sold on FreiExchange for about $600.  So getting a large stake in Datacoin is quite easy at the moment.  And cheap, in any currency.
If you want to mine DTC, 2xGTX1080 graphics cards should give you about 1000DTC per day.  This is not too difficult to achieve.

I am sorry about the Bter/Gate.io wallet - it distorts the debate a little.  But that is an exchange - they all have large wallets.

I remember very clearly when last we had a similar discussion.  Shawn Wilkinson from Storj wanted us to sell him 600000DTC.  We didn't have that kind of money, so he went on to launch Storj on his own coin.
Nothing wrong with that - he took in $30 million and eventually ended up as an ICO on Ethereum.  People should do what makes them feel most comfortable.

But Datacoin is so cheap now, and the mining so easy, that I think people should pause a little and accumulate the amount of coins they feel comfortable with.

It may be easier than you think.
-extro

[hamburger]

I am sorry about the Bter/Gate.io wallet - it distorts the debate a little.  But that is an exchange - they all have large wallets.

-extro

Hi,

If Datacoin was listed on Cryptsy - if so see https://www.goldcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3789.0

Tnx,

H

[bugreporterr]

DTC was almost dead. Now it may reborn.

But the situation is very strange.

It is different from premine. But it is a little similar with premine. But it is like a super premine for a few years!

It can turn away many of new users.

I think this is not true

New users] want to store data
New speculative investors want to make $$$

Premine only concerns speculative investors

If you want to buy product on website what concerns you most? Delivery time or who owns shares? New users concerned by delivery time. New investors concerned by who owns shares.

If datacoin wants speculative investors then premine matters.
If datacoin wants users then premine matters nothing.

If new users want "Censorship-Free Data Storage" then they do not want hard forks to remove miners from blockchain and make possible to rewrite blockchain because that is censorship

[muf18]

There is much diplomacy evident in this group.

We will succeed where others have failed to reconcile their differences.

Such a lovely statement.  

Over the past 24 hours 110000DTC was sold on FreiExchange for about $600.  So getting a large stake in Datacoin is quite easy at the moment.  And cheap, in any currency.
If you want to mine DTC, 2xGTX1080 graphics cards should give you about 1000DTC per day.  This is not too difficult to achieve.

I am sorry about the Bter/Gate.io wallet - it distorts the debate a little.  But that is an exchange - they all have large wallets.

I remember very clearly when last we had a similar discussion.  Shawn Wilkinson from Storj wanted us to sell him 600000DTC.  We didn't have that kind of money, so he went on to launch Storj on his own coin.
Nothing wrong with that - he took in $30 million and eventually ended up as an ICO on Ethereum.  People should do what makes them feel most comfortable.

But Datacoin is so cheap now, and the mining so easy, that I think people should pause a little and accumulate the amount of coins they feel comfortable with.

It may be easier than you think.
-extro

Someone had dumped large bag, but it's hard to get in DTC and get out. That's not the point. Point made by Verionum is imo, that coin was mined for several years, with huge rewards, but only "revived" a few months ago, where diff increased from 6.88 to 9.9, and rewards drop more than 10x. Not only those few miners have took most of rewards, but they have taken a very big rewards like 5000-10000DTC per day, which is lol. It isn't really good or fair, that PoW chain has ladder like rewards, it's like pyramid, where "leaders" take the most of it. It's bad. And it shouldn't be like that.

To change it, it would require hard fork, which most of the network wouldn't accept, because it would be against their consensus rules, and thus it needs to be created a new chain for more egalitarian distribution of it.

[bugreporterr]

Finally. The single file saving rules are impossible and not needed.

Blockchain with "nonstrongruled and nonmetadata" data is already exist.

I think it is normal to create tool for saving files with some elementary algorithms without metadata.

It is not prevent to create some other saving algorithms with metadata a little later.

All this algorithms can be and must be to live in peace. )))

And it is normal. )

Sure, sure. But that's not the point I was making. The point that I was making is that a "nice little app" isn't quite the low-hanging fruit in this instance.

Cheers

Graham

Why? I am confused. I think an app to take local file and store on blockchain is very useful. It needs only filename and data to be stored. To read back again only need block number where stored or to search through blockchain.

There is not an app that can drag-and-drop file from windows explorer to blockchain and save-as from blockchain to windows explorer. If there was such app I would use it. Also if there was such app nobody would make a second app and so first app would become universal and everybody could use it for same data.

Datacoin is not right for filesystem storage. Meaning storing of lots of files. Because blockchain has to store every file and so that makes expensive. If miners cannot store huge files then blockchain dies. If storing file is expensive then users only store small files like hashes. Example: Datacoin is useful for proving document existed before another document by storing hash even if file stored another place.

Datacoin is not useful for storing jpeg files if will cost many $$$. Hard disks are cheap. STORJ project is in good condition. Nobody chose Datacoin for store jpeg. Datacoin must focus on censorship-free storage like title suggests. Storing jpegs is not useful. Storing proof of jpegs is useful. Storing passwords to encrypted jpeg also useful if time of jpeg matters and jpeg not to be released until later time.

Example use of Datacoin: I want to backup bitcoin wallet. I encrypt wallet and add to Datacoin. It costs small amount. Now I can restore bitcoin even if my country hit by asteroid. But this is very difficult now because app to drag-and-drop files does not exist.