[OFFICIAL]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading

[SebastianJu]

What happens when one offers a swap and its taken, then the loan is paid back earlier than the said timeframe... will the swap still run as if that didnt happen so that i dont notice that or would i need to offer those coins as a swap again?

The latter, that's why bots/autorenew/notifications come in handy.

By the way... whats the story with swaps offered for half of the normal orderbook rate?

Probably people with autorenew at fixed rates who are on holiday or so? It is up to every actor to choose how much return they actually want and also how much they are willing to pay... If you only want to earn 3%/year, you can do that too, even though it might be smarter to check first if someone offers to pay you more.

Thanks sukrim. I noticed that bitfinex now only has one decimal anymore on orderbook. Does that mean that further decimals are rounded completely or that they are shown rounded only? Wondering if a offer at a certain price will be eaten or if other bidders could use a slightly different decimal in order to get before my offer, without me seeing it.

There is a +/- located above the order book where you can zoom in/out

  Never even got the idea that could be something clickable and useful. Thanks!

[jabetizo]

Is someone trying to manipulate the FRR?

[noggin-scratcher]

Is someone trying to manipulate the FRR?

That looks like what would happen if someone set an auto-renew at a super-low rate as a way to always hit the highest-rate demand, and then there was no demand for swaps of that duration.

[SebastianJu]

When i take a swap then it seems i dont have more money. For example i send $100 to trading (since it seems i only can take swaps with money that is there) and then i take a swap, then i only have this swap and a bit less than $100. I dont have the actual money anywhere.

So taking a swap doesnt give you actually the USD you loaned? Its only possible to use them for margin trading? If so then it would be a bit confusing. Giving loans you need actual real money, but taking loans only gives you something virtual.

[noggin-scratcher]

So taking a swap doesnt give you actually the USD you loaned? Its only possible to use them for margin trading? If so then it would be a bit confusing. Giving loans you need actual real money, but taking loans only gives you something virtual.

Yes, swaps are explicitly only there to provide leverage in margin trading. What else exactly were you planning to do with the funds?

It has to be real money because it's going to go into trades with other users who might want some actual money in exchange, but it's "virtual" to prevent the swap recipient being able to run away with it. Similarly (in the sense that it's also to prevent losses) they're limited to borrowing only a multiple of the value of their deposit, and will be liquidated when necessary to pay off the swap.

The whole setup is designed to, as far as possible, guarantee that no funds will be lost by lenders. Or rather, by Bitfinex, since they've supposedly extended their "insurance" option to all swaps by default.

[SebastianJu]

So taking a swap doesnt give you actually the USD you loaned? Its only possible to use them for margin trading? If so then it would be a bit confusing. Giving loans you need actual real money, but taking loans only gives you something virtual.

Yes, swaps are explicitly only there to provide leverage in margin trading. What else exactly were you planning to do with the funds?

It has to be real money because it's going to go into trades with other users who might want some actual money in exchange, but it's "virtual" to prevent the swap recipient being able to run away with it.

It might be easy to implement a stop so that lend money cant be withdrawn.

What i wanted to try to do was taking a swap at 0.09% and offer the money at 0.11% again. Arbitrage. Though if that would work then there most probably wouldnt be such a spread.

Im not happy how bitfinex is handling the swap payments. They pay all swaps at one single time at the day. If you started your swap at another time then you will be paid partially. Thats not so bad when bitfinex would make a clear statement about the payments. Instead there is only one single line where all payments are put into. No way to go into detail it seems. Or is there?

And what i really dont like is the following:

I lend an amount of money that would give me X amount of USD at the 0.107% i got. But instead getting X * 0.00107 = Y i get 84% of Y. Thats most probably the really HEFTY fee of 15% bitfinex is taking on swaps. Im not sure why it has to be that much.

But what i really dont like is that bitfinex is stealing my additional profit from users who pay back MY loan earlier. Those people have to pay the fee for the full day. I have to lend those coins out again and have work with it but bitfinex simply is taking that additionally paid fee for themselves. The credit i got clearly says so. And i think thats not ok. Its my money i lend and i have the additional work but i dont have anything from doing so. Its like i lend my money to bitfinex and not to other users. If i would lend my money to bitfinex then they could make such a rule but i lend to other users.

Am i wrong on this or is this unfair? First the high fee of 15% and then i lose completely the additional payments that users paid for my lent money.

[camolist]

But what i really dont like is that bitfinex is stealing my additional profit from users who pay back MY loan earlier. Those people have to pay the fee for the full day. I have to lend those coins out again and have work with it but bitfinex simply is taking that additionally paid fee for themselves. The credit i got clearly says so. And i think thats not ok. Its my money i lend and i have the additional work but i dont have anything from doing so. Its like i lend my money to bitfinex and not to other users. If i would lend my money to bitfinex then they could make such a rule but i lend to other users.

Am i wrong on this or is this unfair? First the high fee of 15% and then i lose completely the additional payments that users paid for my lent money.

they break down by the hour for calculations...not whole days

[SebastianJu]

But what i really dont like is that bitfinex is stealing my additional profit from users who pay back MY loan earlier. Those people have to pay the fee for the full day. I have to lend those coins out again and have work with it but bitfinex simply is taking that additionally paid fee for themselves. The credit i got clearly says so. And i think thats not ok. Its my money i lend and i have the additional work but i dont have anything from doing so. Its like i lend my money to bitfinex and not to other users. If i would lend my money to bitfinex then they could make such a rule but i lend to other users.

Am i wrong on this or is this unfair? First the high fee of 15% and then i lose completely the additional payments that users paid for my lent money.

they break down by the hour for calculations...not whole days

Then i got this wrong. When i traded margin on bitfinex i always read things the way that, when i close a position, i still have to pay the full loan fee for the day. But its only for the hours i used the loan till now? I didnt find a statement about that on bitfinex faqs now.

The maybe additional minutes from a not ended hour are probably eaten by the time it takes to lend out the money again then.

[Sukrim]

What i wanted to try to do was taking a swap at 0.09% and offer the money at 0.11% again.

On the last page only a few days ago someone asked for this feature (again) because it is currently not possible. Then you try to do it despite that fact and are wondering why it doesn't work?

Also you claim several things that are not true, for example complete history of money you borrowed is available in the History tab, take a look at the other reports there... borrowers only pay for the remaining hour, not the remaining day.

[SebastianJu]

What i wanted to try to do was taking a swap at 0.09% and offer the money at 0.11% again.

On the last page only a few days ago someone asked for this feature (again) because it is currently not possible. Then you try to do it despite that fact and are wondering why it doesn't work?

Also you claim several things that are not true, for example complete history of money you borrowed is available in the History tab, take a look at the other reports there... borrowers only pay for the remaining hour, not the remaining day.

Come down please. Im not sure why you get angry. I did not read everything in this thread and i only tried if it works. So nothing wrong with asking about it i think. I only say that its not mentioned anywhere that i, on the one hand can lend out my real money, but on the other hand cant lend real money the same way. If its bound by one purpose then its only virtual.

Where is this history log you mention? I only see one daily line showing something like: "Swap Payment on wallet deposit". All swaps done are put into one line of payment. Even though i did many different swaps for different percents.

And regarding borrowers, i explained already that i had read it otherwise when i did margin trading. Wrong wording then most probably. And i didnt find where its stated on bitfinex that its only for the remaining hour. Link?

[Sukrim]

That's why this stuff is called "swap" and not "money". The history is at https://www.bitfinex.com/account/unused_swaps and https://www.bitfinex.com/account/margin_swaps, one single click away from the payment history. The swap related tabs are conveniently labelled with "swaps" ("unused swaps" and "margin swaps") in their name.

Also, on the footer of every page, there's a link to a "How it works" page, that reads:

Liquidity Providing

Our liquidity feature goes hand in hand with the margin trading feature described above. If you are not a trader and prefer safer investments, this feature is for you. Bitfinex allows you, using your deposit wallets, to provide liquidity in the form of Bitcoins and/or dollars to traders. You can enter offers with your own chosen terms (return rate, duration, and amount). When an offer is taken by a trader, the money in your wallet will be used to buy or sell Bitcoins, and a CFD (credit) will be opened. When the position expires (the trader closes his position), Bitcoins are bought or sold back and the money is returned to your wallet.

It doesn't mention that money is being offered to other liquidity providers for arbitrage...

[SebastianJu]

That's why this stuff is called "swap" and not "money". The history is at https://www.bitfinex.com/account/unused_swaps and https://www.bitfinex.com/account/margin_swaps, one single click away from the payment history. The swap related tabs are conveniently labelled with "swaps" ("unused swaps" and "margin swaps") in their name.

Also, on the footer of every page, there's a link to a "How it works" page, that reads:

Liquidity Providing

Our liquidity feature goes hand in hand with the margin trading feature described above. If you are not a trader and prefer safer investments, this feature is for you. Bitfinex allows you, using your deposit wallets, to provide liquidity in the form of Bitcoins and/or dollars to traders. You can enter offers with your own chosen terms (return rate, duration, and amount). When an offer is taken by a trader, the money in your wallet will be used to buy or sell Bitcoins, and a CFD (credit) will be opened. When the position expires (the trader closes his position), Bitcoins are bought or sold back and the money is returned to your wallet.

It doesn't mention that money is being offered to other liquidity providers for arbitrage...

Those links show my past swaps but not the payments i received for them. I thought its clear what i search when i wrote "All swaps done are put into one line of payment".

I found the how it works mention the hourly payment though beneath it it states a daily charging. Thats most probably were i misread it.

Giving out liquidity to traders doesnt say that trades in between arent possible. When i would lend money and lend it to another one then this would be my trade. The sentence you bolded doesnt say thats not possible only because the word trader is used to tightly on bitfinex.

Anyway... its not working so please go vent your anger on some other person. I only wanted to ask something.

[Timetwister]

I miss the support stuff in this thread, at least for commenting announcements or something. Or do they post somewhere else?

[noggin-scratcher]

Where is this history log you mention? I only see one daily line showing something like: "Swap Payment on wallet deposit". All swaps done are put into one line of payment. Even though i did many different swaps for different percents.

From that initial history page, there's a row of tabs to view your history in different currencies and in more detail. The "Margin Swaps" and "Unused swaps" tabs hold your lending history. That said, it doesn't break down the payment amount any further - just lists the Start/End time, amount and rate.

Would be nice if it did break it down to a per-swap figure, but if you're worried about the payments being a bit underweight, I can (sort of) vouch for their accuracy, in that I have a long-running spreadsheet calculating the expected return (amount * rate * duration * 85%) for each swap and hence my expected return each day. Going by that, I'm fairly sure they're not cutting off any part-hours or part-days.

It's rare that I'm wrong by more than a few cents, that's very plausibly because I tend to copy the times from when the notification emails are received (which is generally a few seconds later than the real start/end time), and the total accumulated error for the whole year is about $4... and in my favour, at that.

[davidgdg]

Is the site down ? Can't log in or even get the landing page

[davidgdg]

Is the site down ? Can't log in or even get the landing page

Getting worried

[manwithnoears]

Is the site down ? Can't log in or even get the landing page

Same here. Could login through Hong Kong's proxy though.

[leen93]

i deposited on bitfinex ( https://blockchain.info/nl/tx/e61a11aa5e7c9141e95195fe47dea093eec8b98cdb6963e74599bbe173fdd875 )
funds only apear on the top of the website and on the right my btc balance is also above 3 but both swappable and non swappable balance are 0
i can't even withdraw my funds again

please solve this immediately

[bassclef]

i deposited on bitfinex ( https://blockchain.info/nl/tx/e61a11aa5e7c9141e95195fe47dea093eec8b98cdb6963e74599bbe173fdd875 )
funds only apear on the top of the website and on the right my btc balance is also above 3 but both swappable and non swappable balance are 0
i can't even withdraw my funds again

please solve this immediately

Move the BTC to your trading wallet, should fix it.

[0x3d]

Guys, Darkcoin is no longer, they're called Dash now. Time to update that on your site as well.