Recieved 50GH BFL Single Today!

[Schrankwand]

Contract law is all about making the damaged party "whole", ie. recovering their losses. If the purchase price is refunded there are no damages. Potential lost profits on a speculative crypto-currency don't count.

I doubt the parties here will end up in court, but I'm curious as to the basis for this assertion.

In a breach, a party's damages can certainly exceed a contract's consideration, and outside of the contact itself, I can think of nothing that would bar a claim for lost profits, no matter how speculative. Is there some case law that leads you to conclude otherwise?

If the party has lost potential winnings on a fraudulent statement of the other contract party, therefore, being defrauded and loosing out for the single notion that the other person has had a misstatement or broke basic contract law... sure.

I mean, he will be made "whole" from the part of contract law, but could file for additional damages arising from the breach of contract as a direct result.

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[KSV]

alright! cant wait for mine!!!

[Xian01]

*yawns* Your legal threats are as empty as Josh's "we will deliver in two weeks" statements.

 The nice probation officer I spoke to on the phone, who received my phone number from the Kansas AG office via the postal chief, wasn't a very empty conversation.

[billotronic]

*yawns* Your legal threats are as empty as Josh's "we will deliver in two weeks" statements.

 The nice probation officer I spoke to on the phone, who received my phone number from the Kansas AG office via the postal chief, wasn't a very empty conversation.

transcript?

cliff notes?

something?

[Schrankwand]

*yawns* Your legal threats are as empty as Josh's "we will deliver in two weeks" statements.

 The nice probation officer I spoke to on the phone, who received my phone number from the Kansas AG office via the postal chief, wasn't a very empty conversation.

transcript?

cliff notes?

something?

Why do Bitcoin people always tend to not understand that being transparent when in a legal process is not a good idea?

If he intends to create trouble, he already disclosed far too much with noticing this phone call.

[wormbog]

Contract law is all about making the damaged party "whole", ie. recovering their losses. If the purchase price is refunded there are no damages. Potential lost profits on a speculative crypto-currency don't count.

I doubt the parties here will end up in court, but I'm curious as to the basis for this assertion.

In a breach, a party's damages can certainly exceed a contract's consideration, and outside of the contact itself, I can think of nothing that would bar a claim for lost profits, no matter how speculative. Is there some case law that leads you to conclude otherwise?

I have no case law to cite, I just think it's highly unlikely that a judge would agree that canceling an order would persuade a judge that BFL is obligated to compensate for lost profits. A suit could be filed, I just doubt it would go anywhere.

[Schrankwand]

Contract law is all about making the damaged party "whole", ie. recovering their losses. If the purchase price is refunded there are no damages. Potential lost profits on a speculative crypto-currency don't count.

I doubt the parties here will end up in court, but I'm curious as to the basis for this assertion.

In a breach, a party's damages can certainly exceed a contract's consideration, and outside of the contact itself, I can think of nothing that would bar a claim for lost profits, no matter how speculative. Is there some case law that leads you to conclude otherwise?

I have no case law to cite, I just think it's highly unlikely that a judge would agree that canceling an order would persuade a judge that BFL is obligated to compensate for lost profits. A suit could be filed, I just doubt it would go anywhere.

I would agree with you. But if you waited on an empty promise for over a year...

[Fjordbit]

Contract law is all about making the damaged party "whole", ie. recovering their losses. If the purchase price is refunded there are no damages. Potential lost profits on a speculative crypto-currency don't count.

RICO, as in racketeering? Please.

I agree with your interpretation of contract law, but for any party who has had a  pre-order cancelled to be made whole, they would need to receive the fair market value for the object contracted. This means if the ebay auction for the 50 GHps miner goes to $30,000, then the fiduciary responsibility of BFL would be $30,000 per miner, not the original purchase price. This has nothing to do with speculative cryptocurrency prices, but the real price of ASIC miners in the market. It would be easy to show the value from similar Avalon auctions as well.

I'll give you an example to make this more clear. Let's say you contracted with a gold company in 2008 to give you a delivery of one ounce of gold 3 months later and gave them $870. Then they had some delays at the mine and you said, don't worry, just give it to me next season. then the next season rolls around and an ounce of gold has gone above $1,000. Do you think any court in the land would allow the mine to just give you back your $870 and keep the ounce of gold?

In this case, I think Gar225 was wrong in his complaint as these were full FPGA orders paid before 6/23 that were converted to ASIC orders, and not ASIC orders with FPGA upgrade. Many people on the chatbox have talked about this weeks ago, so this isn't a surprise to those who pay attention. At the same time, I would be surprised that BFL could come out of forcibly cancelling an order without actual damages (including the secondary market value of a miner but also those for loss of sleep and mental suffering) and possibly punitive damages awarded against them. This is the opinion someone who was married to a law student and also someone who has been involved in two successful lawsuits (although neither was for breech of contract). The fact of the matter is that the bar is ridiculously low to get an award, and in both of the cases I was in, the lawyers were falling over themselves to settle because the additional "losses" you can show are so high to be punitive in themselves.

[pikeadz]

In order for me to keep my pre-orders Josh is making me do the following:

• Apologize Publicly for calling Josh and BFL liars
• Admit "Werner" is a sock puppet account uner my control
• Apologize for using "Werner" to troll him

Therefore, in the best interest of Cognitive, the people who have purchased pre-orders from me, and myself:

Dear Inaba and BFL:

     Sorry for calling you liars. Werner is a sock puppet account under my control. Sorry for utilizing said account to "troll" you.

                                         With regret,
                                                     Garr255

Also, I apologize to all who I may have put at risk by speculating that BFL may have been acting in a dishonest fashion. If I had known that the cancellation of orders placed by me would result of this I would not have acted in such a way, as that would be a direct violation of the fiduciary duty imposed on me by handling others' assets.

Inaba is like that guy that beats his wife in public and then forces her to tell him she loves him after he just gave her a shiner, so she can have the privilege of his company.  What a tool.

[Heathrow]

In order for me to keep my pre-orders Josh is making me do the following:

Josh is a fucking idiot who consumed too much prison hooch.  The hooch damaged his already pathetic little pea-brain beyond repair.

[MPOE-PR]

In order for me to keep my pre-orders Josh is making me do the following:

• Apologize Publicly for calling Josh and BFL liars
• Admit "Werner" is a sock puppet account uner my control
• Apologize for using "Werner" to troll him

Therefore, in the best interest of Cognitive, the people who have purchased pre-orders from me, and myself:

Dear Inaba and BFL:

     Sorry for calling you liars. Werner is a sock puppet account under my control. Sorry for utilizing said account to "troll" you.

                                         With regret,
                                                     Garr255

Also, I apologize to all who I may have put at risk by speculating that BFL may have been acting in a dishonest fashion. If I had known that the cancellation of orders placed by me would result of this I would not have acted in such a way, as that would be a direct violation of the fiduciary duty imposed on me by handling others' assets.

Inaba is like that guy that beats his wife in public and then forces her to tell him she loves him after he just gave her a shiner, so she can have the privilege of his company.  What a tool.

Lmao. Prime comedy rib right here.

[MPOE-PR]

This kind of angers me... BFL gives promoters the items out of line.

I have the absolute first SC Single order (#1656), and not even a shipping notification yet.

Yeah but giga is a scammer. BFL is run by scammers. Of course they support each other.

[MPOE-PR]

So let me get this straight:

You think it's ok to say I'm a scammer.
You think it's ok to say I'm a liar.
You think it's ok to show proof that I'm a scammer and that I'm a liar.

Does that about cover it?

Yes, yes and yes.

You are a lieing piece of shit. Now go make up some imaginary 1k donations to imaginary charities for having fucked up, go bribe disreputable idiots a la coinjedi and lukejr to run your shills and all the rest of the crap.

Scammer.

[deadweasel]

In order for me to keep my pre-orders Josh is making me do the following:

• Apologize Publicly for calling Josh and BFL liars
• Admit "Werner" is a sock puppet account uner my control
• Apologize for using "Werner" to troll him

Therefore, in the best interest of Cognitive, the people who have purchased pre-orders from me, and myself:

Dear Inaba and BFL:

     Sorry for calling you liars. Werner is a sock puppet account under my control. Sorry for utilizing said account to "troll" you.

                                         With regret,
                                                     Garr255

Also, I apologize to all who I may have put risk by speculating that BFL may have been acting in a dishonest fashion. If I had known that the cancellation of orders placed by me would result of this I would not have acted in such a way, as that would be a direct violation of the fiduciary duty imposed on me by handing others' assets.

wow just wow, most people will ask where is you pride, but you just proved that you control your ego, most people will say you are a coward but I think it takes allot of courage to do this.

Josh and BFL employees, regarding these angry people who post all kind of things you do not like, don't you think that this is justified by looking to the fact that your plans went so wrong, your customers had trusted you by putting pre-orders and each time something went wrong you came here and humiliated every one said anything about it ?  

So let me get this straight:

You think it's ok to make baseless accusations.
You think it's ok to use a sock puppet account to troll people.
You think it's ok to lie about said socket puppet account and explicitly post a contradictory post when caught in said lie.

Does that about cover it?  If BFL "humiliated everyone said anything about it" this forum would be filled with nothing but BFL posts.  If you want to complain, fine, by all means, have at it... there are many, many posts and threads doing just that.  I tried to help Garr out and got nothing but crap in return, finally culminating in him using a socket puppet account to further troll the situation.  Then, this lovely and incredibly disingenuous apology follows.  Yes, sure.. whatever you say.

The bottom line is, if you want to get unreasonable, we simply don't want to deal with you.  We have our hands full dealing with adult customers who are reasonable, we have no need for unreasonable, irrational customers throwing tantrums and screaming "Me first GIMME GIMME!"

Fuck you Josh. Your BFL venture is the ORIGINAL unreasonable, irrational, unprofessional seed that created this entire shitstorm. 


edit:  i had a preorder jally, got a refund 2 months after I placed the order after seeing their mis-direction and outright lies.

[c0ikws]

Wow getting a refund in USD instead of bitcoin is like telling him oh ok without even asking for it you get a refund in Zimbabwe's Dollar instead of the U.S. dollar you paid with. And he has the guts to call bitcointalk forum users Asshole.

[ThickAsThieves]

Hey Inaba, is there some kind of list you can put me on to ban me from ever being able to buy anything from BFL forever?

[kakobrekla]

Omg this is golden.

Nice dick sucking garr and nice faggotary Inaba. Well done.

[wormbog]

Contract law is all about making the damaged party "whole", ie. recovering their losses. If the purchase price is refunded there are no damages. Potential lost profits on a speculative crypto-currency don't count.

RICO, as in racketeering? Please.

I agree with your interpretation of contract law, but for any party who has had a  pre-order cancelled to be made whole, they would need to receive the fair market value for the object contracted. This means if the ebay auction for the 50 GHps miner goes to $30,000, then the fiduciary responsibility of BFL would be $30,000 per miner, not the original purchase price. This has nothing to do with speculative cryptocurrency prices, but the real price of ASIC miners in the market. It would be easy to show the value from similar Avalon auctions as well.

I'll give you an example to make this more clear. Let's say you contracted with a gold company in 2008 to give you a delivery of one ounce of gold 3 months later and gave them $870. Then they had some delays at the mine and you said, don't worry, just give it to me next season. then the next season rolls around and an ounce of gold has gone above $1,000. Do you think any court in the land would allow the mine to just give you back your $870 and keep the ounce of gold?

In this case, I think Gar225 was wrong in his complaint as these were full FPGA orders paid before 6/23 that were converted to ASIC orders, and not ASIC orders with FPGA upgrade. Many people on the chatbox have talked about this weeks ago, so this isn't a surprise to those who pay attention. At the same time, I would be surprised that BFL could come out of forcibly cancelling an order without actual damages (including the secondary market value of a miner but also those for loss of sleep and mental suffering) and possibly punitive damages awarded against them. This is the opinion someone who was married to a law student and also someone who has been involved in two successful lawsuits (although neither was for breech of contract). The fact of the matter is that the bar is ridiculously low to get an award, and in both of the cases I was in, the lawyers were falling over themselves to settle because the additional "losses" you can show are so high to be punitive in themselves.

I think the market value would have to be calculated at the secondary market price for miners at the time garr's items would have been delivered had they not been canceled. As more miners ship out the market price will continue to drop.

Interesting analysis though. I suppose the only way to know for sure would be to file a suit and see how it turns out. If BFL makes a habit of canceling orders in response to criticism, someone will drag them into court eventually. I just hope my order arrives first.

[guitarplinker]

Ah good grief. It's really funny to see how BFL conducts business, and since I don't have a BFL preorder I can chirp them all I want!

Guess I can start a business, if you have a BFL preorder and want to voice your opinion PM me, and I'll make the message anonymously public.

But good riddance BFL! Ya bunch of f*ckers! Your PR is a joke and clearly your company is too! You're a year behind on pre-orders, get real you idiots! Now you're debating your shitty business with customers and cancelling their pre-orders for voicing their concerns? Get off your high horse!

[Fjordbit]

I think the market value would have to be calculated at the secondary market price for miners at the time garr's items would have been delivered had they not been canceled. As more miners ship out the market price will continue to drop.

Yes, I agree fully. The simple thing to do would be to show posts from Jody about then they have "delivered through" and then show several ebay auctions around that time as "comparables." It's a pretty easy case to set up. If BFLs lawyers are worth anything I doubt it would go to trial. They'd want to settle with a gag order to prevent others from sharing the strategy.

I also forgot that BFL would be on the hook for the legal fees, which are typically 1/3rd of the award.