BiblePay | 10% to Orphan-Charity | RANDOMX MINING | Sanctuaries (Masternodes)

[thesnat21]

With the recent slump in price, I'm starting to look at ways of popularizing BiblePay.

I'm thinking it might be to our benefit to make it easier to get started as a researcher (for cancer mining) and easier to mine BiblePay.

We could consider removing the team requirement (IE you do not have to be in Team BiblePay for PODC payments); that would potentially open us up to the entire boinc network of World Community Grid and Rosetta researchers who are apprehensive about changing their team.  They would still of course need to associate their CPID with our wallet, but they would receive PODC payments without being on our team. 

The other idea is making us easier to heat mine.  We could potentially allow heat mining for any CPID that is successfully associated with a public key (IE the researcher has successfully sent a burn transaction and is associated with one public key address already).  This would make it easier to heat mine as then only one step is required and the user does not need to wait until being in a superblock.  It would also make it easier on some people financially to get started.

We may also consider voting for a lower BBP-per-rac requirement, but in my opinion its a little early for that.

Heat mining is owned by a few players currently.
CPID: 6d3cf73125be19efe95f073575990d70 count: 24(11% of total) Reward: 11720 Avg Time: 6.2611111111111
CPID: 684b644e09134455f34639d65bea3851 count: 18(8% of total) Reward: 8753 Avg Time: 7.9842592592593
CPID: 8aee6972dd6958234c4d813978e2ee20 count: 13(6% of total) Reward: 6403 Avg Time: 4.6294871794872
CPID: 373e215c0c0d3df1908ebf607a966cb8 count: 12(5% of total) Reward: 5849 Avg Time: 13.330555555556
CPID: e37d18242f0467a0694bb4fe98a7377c count: 12(5% of total) Reward: 5781 Avg Time: 13.245833333333
CPID: 1df2bd274f38f6e1956445a928180443 count: 11(5% of total) Reward: 5286 Avg Time: 7.7757575757576
CPID: bdaea08ab3f1971aacb9ba4bc2171953 count: 11(5% of total) Reward: 5380 Avg Time: 4.7


#1 cycles up and down the list a bit, he had 25/12% earlier today

Also pools seem to be out of favor:
Pool Results
PurePool : 38 (18%) 18525
BBP Pool : 22 (10%) 10756
Solo Mining : 148 (71%) 72037

(these stats are from the last 207 blocks)

I like the idea of opening things up a bit.  The question is which path, and realizing the dilution of the current rewards further.
Though Ideally the price would go up with adoption to help offset it.

[aikida3k]

Helping miners won't do anything to raise the price of BBP. Miners don't help the price of a cryptocurrency, miners only introduce supply.  All new supply of a cryptocurrency is introduced by miners.  Lowering RAC is only an encouragement to introduce more supply.

The way to help the price of BBP is by encouraging buyers to buy BBP.  But buyers are not encouraged to buy any alts right now as the price of BTC is decreasing.  Since BBP is priced in BTC, no one is encouraged to buy BBP.

A way to encourage potential buyers to buy without regard to the future value of BBP is to encourage people to buy BBP in order to support orphans.  Most of these people could be found in churches.  Let them know the benefit of buying BBP versus giving to a conventional charity because they might actually realize a profit from their "gift of buying BBP" whereas giving to a traditional charity gives them no chance of realizing a profit.

EDIT
So in summary, I believe people are afraid to buy BBP because they are afraid of BTC continuing lower.  I won't be surprised if BTC touches $4000.  $4000 was the average price for 2017 and BTC has a history of reverting to the prior year's mean.  There isn't much we can do about that.  But we can encourage people to buy to support orphans with the chance of realizing a profit.

BBP tagline should be: Support orhphans and do good with the chance of realizing a profit.

[cchub]

Helping miners won't do anything to raise the price of BBP. Miners don't help the price of a cryptocurrency, miners only introduce supply.  All new supply of a cryptocurrency is introduced by miners.  Lowering RAC is only an encouragement to introduce more supply.

The way to help the price of BBP is by encouraging buyers to buy BBP.  But buyers are not encouraged to buy any alts right now as the price of BTC is decreasing.  Since BBP is priced in BTC, no one is encouraged to buy BBP.

A way to encourage potential buyers to buy without regard to the future value of BBP is to encourage people to buy BBP in order to support orphans.  Most of these people could be found in churches.  Let them know the benefit of buying BBP versus giving to a conventional charity because they might actually realize a profit from their "gift of buying BBP" whereas giving to a traditional charity gives them no chance of realizing a profit.

EDIT
So in summary, I believe people are afraid to buy BBP because they are afraid of BTC continuing lower.  I won't be surprised if BTC touches $4000.  $4000 was the average price for 2017 and BTC has a history of reverting to the prior year's mean.  There isn't much we can do about that.  But we can encourage people to buy to support orphans with the chance of realizing a profit. 

You should all read what aikida3k said. He is right. Miners only increase supply and therefore make the price plummet.

[capulo]

removing team requirement is good move. but to prevent everybody join mining wothout biblepay team, there should be some reward for team members. lets say +25% if miner is in biblepay team

[bible_pay]

Helping miners won't do anything to raise the price of BBP. Miners don't help the price of a cryptocurrency, miners only introduce supply.  All new supply of a cryptocurrency is introduced by miners.  Lowering RAC is only an encouragement to introduce more supply.

The way to help the price of BBP is by encouraging buyers to buy BBP.  But buyers are not encouraged to buy any alts right now as the price of BTC is decreasing.  Since BBP is priced in BTC, no one is encouraged to buy BBP.

A way to encourage potential buyers to buy without regard to the future value of BBP is to encourage people to buy BBP in order to support orphans.  Most of these people could be found in churches.  Let them know the benefit of buying BBP versus giving to a conventional charity because they might actually realize a profit from their "gift of buying BBP" whereas giving to a traditional charity gives them no chance of realizing a profit.

EDIT
So in summary, I believe people are afraid to buy BBP because they are afraid of BTC continuing lower.  I won't be surprised if BTC touches $4000.  $4000 was the average price for 2017 and BTC has a history of reverting to the prior year's mean.  There isn't much we can do about that.  But we can encourage people to buy to support orphans with the chance of realizing a profit.

BBP tagline should be: Support orhphans and do good with the chance of realizing a profit.

Thanks for your opinion, but spreading our popularity DOES have lasting effects, and one of the ways to spread popularity is to make it easier to mine (thats how we adopt ourselves to new users).

One of the barriers of Biblepay is its technical difficulty in setting up both PODC mining and Heat mining.

Thats why we are having this conversation.

A success story like Litecoin was born because they made the wallet easy to mine for thousands of miners.  Those miners became investors along the way and loyal users.  The loyalty paid off over time and due to more demand than sales and the price went from $1 to $80 a coin.

[bible_pay]

Helping miners won't do anything to raise the price of BBP. Miners don't help the price of a cryptocurrency, miners only introduce supply.  All new supply of a cryptocurrency is introduced by miners.  Lowering RAC is only an encouragement to introduce more supply.

The way to help the price of BBP is by encouraging buyers to buy BBP.  But buyers are not encouraged to buy any alts right now as the price of BTC is decreasing.  Since BBP is priced in BTC, no one is encouraged to buy BBP.

A way to encourage potential buyers to buy without regard to the future value of BBP is to encourage people to buy BBP in order to support orphans.  Most of these people could be found in churches.  Let them know the benefit of buying BBP versus giving to a conventional charity because they might actually realize a profit from their "gift of buying BBP" whereas giving to a traditional charity gives them no chance of realizing a profit.

EDIT
So in summary, I believe people are afraid to buy BBP because they are afraid of BTC continuing lower.  I won't be surprised if BTC touches $4000.  $4000 was the average price for 2017 and BTC has a history of reverting to the prior year's mean.  There isn't much we can do about that.  But we can encourage people to buy to support orphans with the chance of realizing a profit. 

You should all read what aikida3k said. He is right. Miners only increase supply and therefore make the price plummet.

Not possible in a free market.  Its true that more miners increase the trading frequency, which is good for liquidity and market depth, but cheap coins are always bought by investors looking for deals along the way.

[bible_pay]

removing team requirement is good move. but to prevent everybody join mining wothout biblepay team, there should be some reward for team members. lets say +25% if miner is in biblepay team

Not a bad idea (on the higher reward for the team user).  This is just being discussed to see what the general population thinks.  If we actually decide to vote on this Ill make some type of popularity poll first.

[bible_pay]

TheSnat, I believe your txlist filter worked, but we still have relatively slow "LoadBlockIndex" times during the initial wallet load for only 60,000 blocks.

I'll take care of looking into optimizing the later phase of "Memorizing Prayers" myself, but one thing you may be able to help on is take a look at LoadBlockIndexGuts and see if there is something in there slowing down the load time.  Its taking about 30 seconds to perform the LoadBlockIndex phase itself, before moving on to memorizeprayers, so I think maybe you can put a test harness on that piece and see what piece of data inside that function is actually slowing down each loop.  

To my knowledge we havent veered from Dash's load block index guts - except we have our transaction.vout[n].sTxOutMessage on each transaction (which stores our prayers and podc information).

I see no variation between ours and Dash's...  I have isolated the loop that takes the time,  I don't see a clear way to optimize it more.
Something of note I placed a counter to capture blocks it processes: blocks processed = 63286

This is 358 blocks more than the chain has currently.  I suspect these are "orphan" chains/blocks that need to be accounted for and routed through before settling on the current active.

I will keep digging to see if we can isolate these from the loop and see if it would speed up the process

THANK YOU very much!

Looks like we need to go in with a more advanced test harness and see if it has something to do with our block.vtx[n].sTxOutMessage.  Those messages are limited to 3000 bytes each, so I didn't expect those to be the issue, but if they are being hashed, it could be part of the delay.

[bible_pay]

With the recent slump in price, I'm starting to look at ways of popularizing BiblePay.

I'm thinking it might be to our benefit to make it easier to get started as a researcher (for cancer mining) and easier to mine BiblePay.

We could consider removing the team requirement (IE you do not have to be in Team BiblePay for PODC payments); that would potentially open us up to the entire boinc network of World Community Grid and Rosetta researchers who are apprehensive about changing their team.  They would still of course need to associate their CPID with our wallet, but they would receive PODC payments without being on our team. 

The other idea is making us easier to heat mine.  We could potentially allow heat mining for any CPID that is successfully associated with a public key (IE the researcher has successfully sent a burn transaction and is associated with one public key address already).  This would make it easier to heat mine as then only one step is required and the user does not need to wait until being in a superblock.  It would also make it easier on some people financially to get started.

We may also consider voting for a lower BBP-per-rac requirement, but in my opinion its a little early for that.

Heat mining is owned by a few players currently.
CPID: 6d3cf73125be19efe95f073575990d70 count: 24(11% of total) Reward: 11720 Avg Time: 6.2611111111111
CPID: 684b644e09134455f34639d65bea3851 count: 18(8% of total) Reward: 8753 Avg Time: 7.9842592592593
CPID: 8aee6972dd6958234c4d813978e2ee20 count: 13(6% of total) Reward: 6403 Avg Time: 4.6294871794872
CPID: 373e215c0c0d3df1908ebf607a966cb8 count: 12(5% of total) Reward: 5849 Avg Time: 13.330555555556
CPID: e37d18242f0467a0694bb4fe98a7377c count: 12(5% of total) Reward: 5781 Avg Time: 13.245833333333
CPID: 1df2bd274f38f6e1956445a928180443 count: 11(5% of total) Reward: 5286 Avg Time: 7.7757575757576
CPID: bdaea08ab3f1971aacb9ba4bc2171953 count: 11(5% of total) Reward: 5380 Avg Time: 4.7


#1 cycles up and down the list a bit, he had 25/12% earlier today

Also pools seem to be out of favor:
Pool Results
PurePool : 38 (18%) 18525
BBP Pool : 22 (10%) 10756
Solo Mining : 148 (71%) 72037

(these stats are from the last 207 blocks)

I like the idea of opening things up a bit.  The question is which path, and realizing the dilution of the current rewards further.
Though Ideally the price would go up with adoption to help offset it.

Thanks for the stats!

Yeah I think Solo Mining is organically high because active distinct pool CPIDs (IE active pool heat miners) probably only make up 28% of our distinct CPID list - and with the rule in the core that tries to reward distinct CPIDs, solo miners who are lucky are receiving blocks.  But its worth considering opening that up to anyone with a valid CPID with RAC, instead of a biblepay CPID with magnitude (for heat mining).  We have to be careful not to compromise on security.

Thats why I think considering the team removal would be the lower hanging fruit.

Ive always considered a wallet that is plug and play, like an iphone.  We can consider building a plug & play biblepay PODC client.

[aikida3k]

Helping miners won't do anything to raise the price of BBP. Miners don't help the price of a cryptocurrency, miners only introduce supply.  All new supply of a cryptocurrency is introduced by miners.  Lowering RAC is only an encouragement to introduce more supply.

The way to help the price of BBP is by encouraging buyers to buy BBP.  But buyers are not encouraged to buy any alts right now as the price of BTC is decreasing.  Since BBP is priced in BTC, no one is encouraged to buy BBP.

A way to encourage potential buyers to buy without regard to the future value of BBP is to encourage people to buy BBP in order to support orphans.  Most of these people could be found in churches.  Let them know the benefit of buying BBP versus giving to a conventional charity because they might actually realize a profit from their "gift of buying BBP" whereas giving to a traditional charity gives them no chance of realizing a profit.

EDIT
So in summary, I believe people are afraid to buy BBP because they are afraid of BTC continuing lower.  I won't be surprised if BTC touches $4000.  $4000 was the average price for 2017 and BTC has a history of reverting to the prior year's mean.  There isn't much we can do about that.  But we can encourage people to buy to support orphans with the chance of realizing a profit.

BBP tagline should be: Support orhphans and do good with the chance of realizing a profit.

Thanks for your opinion, but spreading our popularity DOES have lasting effects, and one of the ways to spread popularity is to make it easier to mine (thats how we adopt ourselves to new users).

One of the barriers of Biblepay is its technical difficulty in setting up both PODC mining and Heat mining.

Thats why we are having this conversation.

A success story like Litecoin was born because they made the wallet easy to mine for thousands of miners.  Those miners became investors along the way and loyal users.  The loyalty paid off over time and due to more demand than sales and the price went from $1 to $80 a coin.

One of the barriers of Biblepay is its technical difficulty in setting up both PODC mining and Heat mining.

You were the one that said you were creating this for a "better breed of Christians"  that would understand how to mine this.  I don't really want to go back and find the post where you actually said that, but you said you didn't mind it being difficult to attract a "better breed".

A success story like Litecoin was born because they made the wallet easy to mine for thousands of miners.  Those miners became investors along the way and loyal users.  The loyalty paid off over time and due to more demand than sales and the price went from $1 to $80 a coin.

Miners didn't push the price from 1 to 80, buyers did.  Market buyers are the only ones who absorb liquidity and push prices higher.  It is a logical fact that market buyers are required to move the price higher.  Miners do not set market buys, only sell limit and sell market orders.  For a fact, right now the price of BBP isn't moving because almost absolutely no one is entering market orders, just limit orders.

Pretty sure LTC is an ASIC coin now anyway.  ASIC miners aren't pushing up the price of LTC.

You didn't model the effusion like Litecoin, you modeled the effusion much closer to DOGECOIN.  
The founder of DOGECOIN still works his day job at Adobe.

https://twitter.com/ummjackson/status/1022684446074368006



Here is the "better breed" post:

Hey,
Just curious, can we make this any more complicated to mine this coin?  We went from extremely easy, to something that requires a ridiculous amount of time to understand.  Maybe we can add a couple of more acronyms, and steps that the average user is unwilling / unable to deal with.

 

Its pretty easy, maybe go for flubber coin?  

Won't win any awards for plain English however...

Our documentation is very good, and we are easier to understand than a BFL Labs ASIC, and of a higher calling, you just need a moderate IQ to understand the documentation.  This sets us apart, being a better breed for Christ.

[afeno]

Somehow I agree with aikida3k.
Having more miner who don't really care about this project will only mine and sell. Not helping to raise the price I think. We need people to buy BBP because 1) they believe what is behind or 2) because they see a good investment opportunity.
I have an idea but I need more time to think about it. I will share as soon as it is clear on my head.
What about being part of a big exchange? Does anybody know how this can influence the price?

[aikida3k]

Somehow I agree with aikida3k.
Having more miner who don't really care about this project will only mine and sell. Not helping to raise the price I think. We need people to buy BBP because 1) they believe what is behind or 2) because they see a good investment opportunity.
I have an idea but I need more time to think about it. I will share as soon as it is clear on my head.
What about being part of a big exchange? Does anybody know how this can influence the price?

I think distributing a 5 BBP paper wallet to people after church with marketing on the wallet that says "Support orphans and do good with the chance of realizing a profit by buying BBP cryptocurrency."  If you sell it for a loss, it was the same as doing a donation to a charitable cause.  If you sell it for a profit, you supported the orphans and you can support the government by paying capital gains!

I think larger exchanges want to see more volume in order to get listed, which we don't have.

[thesnat21]

THANK YOU very much!

Looks like we need to go in with a more advanced test harness and see if it has something to do with our block.vtx[n].sTxOutMessage.  Those messages are limited to 3000 bytes each, so I didn't expect those to be the issue, but if they are being hashed, it could be part of the delay.

I've spent some time isolating the blocks it seems most process in 0 microseconds, but several are 500-1000microseconds.

Oddly it doesn't appear to be the same blocks. (2 runs 2 totally separate #'s) ... Will keep digging

[thesnat21]

Thanks for the stats!

Ive always considered a wallet that is plug and play, like an iphone.  We can consider building a plug & play biblepay PODC client.

Cant't help it spent way too much time doing data analytics

As for the iPhone comment.. hmm that sounds familiar heh

[bible_pay]

Somehow I agree with aikida3k.
Having more miner who don't really care about this project will only mine and sell. Not helping to raise the price I think. We need people to buy BBP because 1) they believe what is behind or 2) because they see a good investment opportunity.
I have an idea but I need more time to think about it. I will share as soon as it is clear on my head.
What about being part of a big exchange? Does anybody know how this can influence the price?

I think distributing a 5 BBP paper wallet to people after church with marketing on the wallet that says "Support orphans and do good with the chance of realizing a profit by buying BBP cryptocurrency."  If you sell it for a loss, it was the same as doing a donation to a charitable cause.  If you sell it for a profit, you supported the orphans and you can support the government by paying capital gains!

I think larger exchanges want to see more volume in order to get listed, which we don't have.

I'm here to be open minded.  Let's all keep the avenues of talk and ideas open.

I leaned toward making it hard to mine in the beginning because I felt what we have created is sacred and worth protecting (remember I said why have a honey pot in the back yard) etc etc. 

I'm neutral on this.  Let's keep thinking about this.

[slovakia]

we are in circles,im wrote few months ago and we are here again with this ideas?  

1. we need bigger exchanges= we need traders, no miners
2. we no need new miners
3. android+iphone= perfect,we got it
4. and we have to pay profi PR,blogger,youtuber,twitterer
5. use superblock BBP for listing
6. better for orphans will be better price like dead BBP= we can reserve 2-4 months superblock for listing, orphans can to wait.......

thats all

[leetlezee]

we are in circles,im wrote few months ago and we are here again with this ideas?  
1. we need bigger exchanges= we need traders, no miners
2. we no need new miners
3. android+iphone= perfect,we got it
4. and we have to pay profi PR,blogger,youtuber,twitterer
5. use superblock BBP for listing
6. better for orphans will be better price like dead BBP= we can reserve 2-4 months superblock for listing, orphans can to wait.......

I don't think the answer right now is a bigger exchange. I think the biggest thing right now is expanding the user-base. One of the possible ways to do that is making it easier to mine. However, I think BiblePay needs a big push in advertising / PR to get the word out there to bring in more buyers and traders.

[slovakia]

biggest traders+buyers is on biggest exchanges .. howgh ..
CB+CCEX+South= fleas in da world
the big trader will never use such an exchange like CB,CCEX,South

[thesnat21]

biggest traders+buyers is on biggest exchanges .. howgh ..
CB+CCEX+South= fleas in da world
the big trader will never use such an exchange like CB,CCEX,South

Bigger trader wont touch this coin with no liquidity... chicken/egg issue

I agree we need to get the word out, we need people actively promoting the coin.. however the current environment is not helping any of the alt's....  people are afraid of the market as a whole, so getting people to invest is going to remain difficult

[thesnat21]

I see no variation between ours and Dash's...  I have isolated the loop that takes the time,  I don't see a clear way to optimize it more.
Something of note I placed a counter to capture blocks it processes: blocks processed = 63286

This is 358 blocks more than the chain has currently.  I suspect these are "orphan" chains/blocks that need to be accounted for and routed through before settling on the current active.

I will keep digging to see if we can isolate these from the loop and see if it would speed up the process

THANK YOU very much!

Looks like we need to go in with a more advanced test harness and see if it has something to do with our block.vtx[n].sTxOutMessage.  Those messages are limited to 3000 bytes each, so I didn't expect those to be the issue, but if they are being hashed, it could be part of the delay.

Hmm... so revisiting my test showed an error.   Apparently the microseconds timestamp is not returning microseconds but milliseconds.  This accounts for the odd times of 0ms then a batch of "catchup" time.

it seems to process a range of 300-700 blocks per milli-second. will  continue testing.

The area that is taking 30sec is the boost foreach loop in "bool static LoadBlockIndexDB()"