[ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread

[ArcticWolf]

ASICminer are going to have to increase their current hash rate by a large % to keep their current global hash % (this costs money, which in turn affect dividends).

ActiveMiner on the other hand, has chips/cases/PSUs paid for. So come August we will have already paid for and over compensated for the global hash rate increase and will be making more dividends than what were making the previous month.

If activeminer has payed some massive bills it is still affects the company finances today and those investments need to recouped from the later profits. Any normal company tries to postpone paying any bills as late as possible. There is no benefit of paying bills too early. Especially a company that is still desperately trying to raise capital it makes absolutely no sense to pay bills even a day earlier than absolutely necessary.

What has been the total profit of activeminer has made this year? Activeminer has a couple silly mining boxes but on the other hand it has made massive investments to chips/cases/PSUs which are still affecting the company since the investment has not yet been paid off by any profits made and the investments are still ongoing since there must be people working designing stuff and later running the production and setting up the shop is also going to cost money. The profits from the mining done today look totally ridiculous compared to the bleeding of money that activeminer has made and continues to make for these investments.

If you think that ASICMINER must follow some sensible accounting where the costs of operation affect the profit made and dividends are only payed out from profits made how it is that activeminer can pay out any dividends at all since the company cannot possibly be in the black any way you could possibly count it.

The dividends are from mining revenue, all production, design, fabrication etc costs are being paid by selling shares - not all of which are sold yet.

[ab8989]

The dividends are from mining revenue, all production, design, fabrication etc costs are being paid by selling shares - not all of which are sold yet.

So then the statement about ASICMINER is also wrong. They just sell some shares also and also ASICMINER dividends are only going up when they make massive investments.

Isn't it just wonderful?

[chsados]

I am curious where all this money come from, especially since the mining address only showed ~86 BTC. It was a nice surprise to wake up to that much BTC but I'm really hoping it wasn't a typo!

+1  Doesn't make sense.

[TaxReturn]

I am curious where all this money come from, especially since the mining address only showed ~86 BTC. It was a nice surprise to wake up to that much BTC but I'm really hoping it wasn't a typo!

+1  Doesn't make sense.

86 / 0.0000183 ~= 4.7 M

This might well be the total number of issued shares, as in shares actually bought by investors, not as BitFunder understands it.

[chsados]

I am curious where all this money come from, especially since the mining address only showed ~86 BTC. It was a nice surprise to wake up to that much BTC but I'm really hoping it wasn't a typo!

+1  Doesn't make sense.

86 / 0.0000183 ~= 4.7 M

This might well be the total number of issued shares, as in shares actually bought by investors, not as BitFunder understands it.

That would make sense, I think I remember Ken saying that Bitfunder was going to fix this.

[ArcticWolf]

I am curious where all this money come from, especially since the mining address only showed ~86 BTC. It was a nice surprise to wake up to that much BTC but I'm really hoping it wasn't a typo!

+1  Doesn't make sense.

86 / 0.0000183 ~= 4.7 M

This might well be the total number of issued shares, as in shares actually bought by investors, not as BitFunder understands it.

That would make sense, I think I remember Ken saying that Bitfunder was going to fix this.

Ah so the dividend was over the entire amount of shares so part of it went back to ken himself?

[VolanicEruptor]

at one time ken told us that btct divs/issued shares was incorrect, which is why they got better divs last week.  That was amc though, before activemining.  not sure what made him change his mind on how to pay dividends

[hf]

I am curious where all this money come from, especially since the mining address only showed ~86 BTC. It was a nice surprise to wake up to that much BTC but I'm really hoping it wasn't a typo!

+1  Doesn't make sense.

86 / 0.0000183 ~= 4.7 M

This might well be the total number of issued shares, as in shares actually bought by investors, not as BitFunder understands it.

That would make sense, I think I remember Ken saying that Bitfunder was going to fix this.

Ah so the dividend was over the entire amount of shares so part of it went back to ken himself?

Exactly.

Ken had to pay dividends to three securities : AMC and ActiveMining on Bitfunder, AMC-PT on BTCT.
On Bitfunder, dividends go to the entire amount of shares. On BTCT, dividends go only to issued shares.

4.7M issued shares seems possible.

[Vbs]

I am curious where all this money come from, especially since the mining address only showed ~86 BTC. It was a nice surprise to wake up to that much BTC but I'm really hoping it wasn't a typo!

+1  Doesn't make sense.

86 / 0.0000183 ~= 4.7 M

This might well be the total number of issued shares, as in shares actually bought by investors, not as BitFunder understands it.

I think there are about ~5.9M issued, so the total would be more like ~BTC108, with BTC86 from mining and probably with BTC22 coming from the old growth fund (which was previously excessively eating at least 85% of all dividends, 5.9M/40M), since all current expenses are probably paid already. All in all, a big thank you from Ken to everyone who stuck around.

Also, AMC-PT and ActiveMining divs come funneled from issued shares on AMC, so only look there to see the totals.

[stslimited]

Taking down the wall only helps speculators that want to play with the price as soon as possible.

The wall will be brought down by investors once they realise the potential of this. Volume is more important than price now.

The thing is that the wall is keeping volume down because investors don't believe they will make any money. Why would an individual choose to buy in at .0025 when there is no chance of the share price increasing?

For example, there are 1941664 shares at .0025 available on BTCT right now. The daily volume of AMC is 24538. Even if every single one of those trades was a buy at .0025, and they most certainly are not, it would take around 80 days before the wall gets brought down.

They almost were. Yesterday, the wall was around 1965000.

but then there is bitfunder where there are plenty of cheaper shares BEFORE you get to the 2,000,000 ask wall. the optimists will say "Yay cheaper" but this really just means there is so much more that needs to be filled, further contributing to pessimism. although, I am buying.

I confess, I am a huge fan of how fast Chinese companies can produce things (I missed the cold war so I don't really care), but I definitely have affinity for when an American venture in America tries to do it so much better

[Streets 2.0]

Taking down the wall only helps speculators that want to play with the price as soon as possible.

The wall will be brought down by investors once they realise the potential of this. Volume is more important than price now.

The thing is that the wall is keeping volume down because investors don't believe they will make any money. Why would an individual choose to buy in at .0025 when there is no chance of the share price increasing?

For example, there are 1941664 shares at .0025 available on BTCT right now. The daily volume of AMC is 24538. Even if every single one of those trades was a buy at .0025, and they most certainly are not, it would take around 80 days before the wall gets brought down.

They almost were. Yesterday, the wall was around 1965000.

but then there is bitfunder where there are plenty of cheaper shares BEFORE you get to the 2,000,000 ask wall. the optimists will say "Yay cheaper" but this really just means there is so much more that needs to be filled, further contributing to pessimism. although, I am buying.

I confess, I am a huge fan of how fast Chinese companies can produce things (I missed the cold war so I don't really care), but I definitely have affinity for when an American venture in America tries to do it so much better

I have to agree, and it has me considering liquidating my position in ASICMINER to purchase even more shares, can I haz 20k more plz?

Will admit though, I am a bit weary of doing so, bought in at 1.9ish and it has been bullish as hell

[Vbs]

BTC-TC wall is at 1,922,000 now, so that's 19,664 sold in just a few hours.

If not before, both walls will be gone quickly after the 20,000 avalon chips arrive. That's a massive TH increase for the current share price.

[lewicki]

BTC-TC wall is at 1,922,000 now, so that's 19,664 sold in just a few hours.

If not before, both walls will be gone quickly after the 20,000 avalon chips arrive. That's a massive TH increase for the current share price.

ActiveMining and AMC are creeping closer and closer to .0025. It's just a matter of time.

Oh...

Here's some food for thought. That wall that you see over there yonder. It's not as big as you think, now with the price of BTC/USD rising.

[Streets 2.0]

BTC-TC wall is at 1,922,000 now, so that's 19,664 sold in just a few hours.

If not before, both walls will be gone quickly after the 20,000 avalon chips arrive. That's a massive TH increase for the current share price.

ActiveMining and AMC are creeping closer and closer to .0025. It's just a matter of time.

Oh...

Here's some food for thought. That wall that you see over there yonder. It's not as big as you think, now with the price of BTC/USD rising.

I just saw on the ticker someone buy over the undercut sell order of .002499 to buy at .0025 - only 23 shares but still funny!  People want these walls to come down

[kslaughter]

you have a decent amount of capital right now, how about you use that as collateral for a loan with no payments for a year, remove the bid wall, and let the market do its thang

leverage baby

interesting idea.

Where can I get such a loan?

[matuszed]

you have a decent amount of capital right now, how about you use that as collateral for a loan with no payments for a year, remove the bid wall, and let the market do its thang

leverage baby

interesting idea.

Where can I get such a loan?

Would have to be someone private looking to invest, no way a bank is going to give you a line of credit against BTC collateral.

[ArcticWolf]

you have a decent amount of capital right now, how about you use that as collateral for a loan with no payments for a year, remove the bid wall, and let the market do its thang

leverage baby

interesting idea.

Where can I get such a loan?

Coinlenders would be a possibility

[Exocyst]

you have a decent amount of capital right now, how about you use that as collateral for a loan with no payments for a year, remove the bid wall, and let the market do its thang

leverage baby

interesting idea.

Where can I get such a loan?

Coinlenders would be a possibility

A few consecutive weeks of massive ActiveMining dividends near this week's level may dissolve the wall anyway. I don't agree that ActiveMining needs to take on debt to pay the NRE. When we get the 20,000 Avalon chips online, we should improve our mining share, which should convince some skeptics to join up and take down the wall (if it is still around by the end of August anyway).

[Vbs]

A few consecutive weeks of massive ActiveMining dividends near this week's level may dissolve the wall anyway. I don't agree that ActiveMining needs to take on debt to pay the NRE. When we get the 20,000 Avalon chips online, we should improve our mining share, which should convince some skeptics to join up and take down the wall (if it is still around by the end of August anyway).

I agree. If the current market value right now is already approaching 0.0025, as soon as any more hardware starts arriving it will definitely increase volume a lot.

[lolstate]

you have a decent amount of capital right now, how about you use that as collateral for a loan with no payments for a year, remove the bid wall, and let the market do its thang

leverage baby

interesting idea.

Where can I get such a loan?

Coinlenders would be a possibility

A few consecutive weeks of massive ActiveMining dividends near this week's level may dissolve the wall anyway. I don't agree that ActiveMining needs to take on debt to pay the NRE. When we get the 20,000 Avalon chips online, we should improve our mining share, which should convince some skeptics to join up and take down the wall (if it is still around by the end of August anyway).

I agree. A few weeks of good news should do it. Right now, someone heavily invested in ASICMiner will be contemplating liquidating  some of their stake to invest in ActM, to diversify and limit their risk. They just need a little time to be convinced.