[ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread

[TheSwede75]

How is pointing out something factual FUD? Jesus people.. Stop being idiots.

[1714167632]

1714167632

[1714167632]

1714167632

[1714167632]

1714167632

[ArcticWolf]

Ken, you still have not answered one very important question. Why did you release more shares and undercut the market?

He has already done so and promised to do it again:

I will be posting 400,000 shares on BTC-TC @ .0025 and 100,000 shares on bitfunder @ .0025 sometime this weekend after the market has time to breath from the resent sales.

Where in there do you see the answer to the question 'Why'?

I was just pointing out that he had done so and also planned to do it again.

Apparently he released some at 0.0028 and after those sold, he came back hours later and said he would release more at 0.0025.  Awesome, right?

Investors should feel confident, confident that he will undercut them again and again and again.

That statement right there is the textbook definition of FUD.

But sadly, this is exactly what has happened and will happen.  I am not making it up, therefore, not FUD. 

Unless you have a crystal ball or a time machine you are making it up.

No crystal ball needed:

I will be posting 400,000 shares on BTC-TC @ .0025 and 100,000 shares on bitfunder @ .0025 sometime this weekend after the market has time to breath from the resent sales.

It's the use of the term "again and again and again" that I have issue with, as it is designed to scare investors. Saying "and he is doing it again" would have been truthful.

[ArcticWolf]

It's the use of the term "again and again and again" that I have issue with, as it is designed to scare investors. Saying "and he is doing it again" would have been truthful.

It is a small distinction, I agree, but it is the difference between passing information, and sensationalizing something to force down the price and scare off investors.

[Rawted]

How is pointing out something factual FUD? Jesus people.. Stop being idiots.

Seriously. Stop white knighting and let this man answer the damn questions his investors are asking.

Why are we listing more shares?

Why are you undercutting the current market and your investors when you do?

It's pretty obvious that you are having a hard time with the day to day and PR of this venture. You need to hire people. When will this happen?

[lolstate]

How is pointing out something factual FUD? Jesus people.. Stop being idiots.

Sell me a Call option. Now.

[vlaoou321]

holy  shirt!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[somestranger]

Looks like another 100,000 shares have been issued on btct.co, unless that is just a whale selling their shares for .0025.

[vlaoou321]

Last issue 1000,000

[Exocyst]

I, for one, am very glad there will be more shares issued at 0.0025. One last chance to expand my stake at a low price before the price skyrockets in the months to come as the avalon chips are deployed, the eASIC NRE is paid in full, and the FAST-HASH-ONE series comes online.

Watch out Springfield, MO we will own your underground in 2014—to be renamed "The ActiveMining PetaHash Bunker"

[kslaughter]

I, for one, am very glad there will be more shares issued at 0.0025. One last chance to expand my stake at a low price before the price skyrockets in the months to come as the avalon chips are deployed, the eASIC NRE is paid in full, and the FAST-HASH-ONE series comes online.

Watch out Springfield, MO we will own your underground in 2014—to be renamed "The ActiveMining PetaHash Bunker"

I like the way you think! 

[kslaughter]

Last issue 1000,000

Don't you know that we are trading Active Mining shares for AMC shares.  I have to issue those shares
to be able to trade for AMC shares.

[Effayy]

Ken, since you appear to be an active member in this thread on a daily basis, could you please consider the following:

You stated that you would get a board together in the next few months.  That is an incredibly long time-frame for a company which has exploded as quickly as yours.  My suggestion is that you form this group sooner rather than later considering that there are obviously many unanswered questions and many curious investors wanting more information as to your short/mid/long term plans.

Compared to a traditional stock exchange, information and (ultimately) progress seems to flow quickly through BTC-related companies.  You can't afford to spend the majority of your time responding personally to public requests and inquiries, and you certainly can't afford to lose the confidence of your investors by appearing to be too vague or too disconnected. 

I highly recommend that you appoint a board of trustees as soon as possible to not only present an air of professionalism to your company, but also to allow healthy discourse regarding any actions to be taken in the future.

[sayaz]

Ken, since you appear to be an active member in this thread on a daily basis, could you please consider the following:

You stated that you would get a board together in the next few months.  That is an incredibly long time-frame for a company which has exploded as quickly as yours.  My suggestion is that you form this group sooner rather than later considering that there are obviously many unanswered questions and many curious investors wanting more information as to your short/mid/long term plans.

Compared to a traditional stock exchange, information and (ultimately) progress seems to flow quickly through BTC-related companies.  You can't afford to spend the majority of your time responding personally to public requests and inquiries, and you certainly can't afford to lose the confidence of your investors by appearing to be too vague or too disconnected.  

I highly recommend that you appoint a board of trustees as soon as possible to not only present an air of professionalism to your company, but also to allow healthy discourse regarding any actions to be taken in the future.

+1.

Before anyone starts debasing me or screaming FUD, I have held shares in AMC/AM since May and obviously want to see this business become a success. As a group we need to sort out lines of communication and instigate the establishment of a board ASAP. We have been blessed at this point to have come this far without an already hostile community completely demolishing AM and completely scaring potential investors away. If we want to AM to be seen as a reputable brand and have an established presence within the bitcoin scene we need to move beyond the:

"Ken is a engineer, just not good at PR etc, everything will be okay guys!" We need to drop this argument, it is holding us back.

That's good enough for the diehard fans AND ONLY the diehard fans. This is not applicable to new investors who see fighting, vague responses, questionable motives and a lack of information which turns them away from this venture rather quickly. It also provides a lot of (unnecessary) fuel for skeptics, spreaders of FUD, anyone who wants to see this venture fail.

There is a trend among new investors for establishing a baseline of trust with Ken. It is along the lines of "I wasn't so sure about this, so I did a lot of research and read the threads. (huge thanks to Streets 2.0 et al for aggregating this information in the speculation thread) Still, I wasn't totally convinced so I had a nice long chat with Ken on the phone and am now much more convinced this is a legitimate business."

I think there is the possibility of being able to vindicate the brand once and for all with a well executed PR plan (along with tangible results of investing thus far i.e AM's next-gen hardware).

We need to get the ball rolling even if Ken has stipulated it will be months. We can expedite the formation of a board, among other things by taking action. Potential board candidates should start being identified etc (of which I have seen a little bit of in this thread).

As a personal observation, while I share Ken's vision of the business as best an armchair investor can and I respect all the technical work going into this business, I am sorry to say that AM would not be in the shape it currently is without the likes of a small group of individuals taking great amounts of their personal time to promote AM, set at ease the worries of would be investors, generate tables for profit calculations, create summary threads of events etc. These people have been holding the glue together in the bitcoin community thus far.

Don't get me wrong - Ken I love what you are doing and I can't imagine the difficulties of running such a venture given I've never done anything like this personally, but some things need to change to ensure a healthy long term future for Active Mining.

[sebastienurbain]

Sry but I am confused. Where the additional shares at 0.0025 already put on btc-tc? I just woke up and saw Ken's post. I almost sold my shares because the price was still above 0.0025 so I can buy more when the wall is put up but then I saw that there were multiple 0.0025 buys 2-3 hours ago. Was this Ken's wall?

[sayaz]

Sry but I am confused. Where the additional shares at 0.0025 already put on btc-tc? I just woke up and saw Ken's post. I almost sold my shares because the price was still above 0.0025 so I can buy more when the wall is put up but then I saw that there were multiple 0.0025 buys 2-3 hours ago. Was this Ken's wall?

Prime example of why we need to start taking this more seriously lol.

I believe there will be another wall going up this weekend at 0.0025 on btct.co from memory. Don't quote me on it though I'm fuzzy. Someone else will have to confirm this for you.

[EskimoBob]

caveat emptor due to the fact that there are more than 10,000,000 shares outstanding between the two AMC-PT, I don't fully understand what will happen to those shareholders after July 31st

Where can you see the number of outstanding shares on bitfunder?

https://bitfunder.com/asset/AMC <- it all started here
Shares Issued   8,886,710

https://bitfunder.com/asset/ActiveMining - was that also a PT because of Bitfunder limitations (can't rename a security)?
Shares Total   25,000,000
Shares Issued   6,176,329

https://btct.co/security/AMC-PT <-  is that a pass through of AMC or Active mining? (edit)
Outstanding 2514108 / 5000000 Issued

so, you have to figure out, what is a pass through of what

6176329+2514108= 8690437

https://bitfunder.com/asset/AMC#pane_profile
Asset Name AMC
Asset Issuer AMC
Shares Total  100,000,000
Shares Issued 8,886,710
Pays Dividends   Yes
Issuer may Increase Shares:   No
Issuer may Modify Description:   Option not set.


https://bitfunder.com/asset/ActiveMining
Asset Name    ActiveMining
Asset Issuer    AMC
Shares Total   25,000,000
Shares Issued    6,176,329
Pays Dividends   Yes
Issuer may Increase Shares:   Yes, with vote.
Issuer may Modify Description:   Yes, without vote.


https://btct.co/security/AMC-PT
Outstanding 2524534 / 5000000 Issued (changed by 2524534-2514108=10426)

6176329+2524534=8700863

Someone can probably automate it and collect this data with regular interval and maybe even generate some chart pr0n out of it.
AMC should disappear soon and AMC-PT will gets converted to ActiveMining on btct.co.

kslaughter, what is the proper way to calculate the actual outstanding shares of ActiveMining from those numbers?

kslaughter, how did you resolve the management shares issue? Will those shares be held as treasury stock on btctc or for now or are you going to use some type of special accounts, that do not receive the dividends.

One more question. Why do you keep pushing shares to Bitfunder and not to btct.co, while it lacks useful and important functionality and has lower trading volumes.

[BlockChains]

I see the second someone says anything kind of negative it's immediately derided as FUD but super pumping circle jerking is given a free pass.  They're both manipulative and/or just opinions.  Like assholes, everyone's got an opinion. Here's mine:

The main things Ken needs to clear up that haven't been were the why of the new ask walls and how many shares are outstanding . I think I'm starting to get an idea as to why, which was all the shares needed to be released before the end of the month for both old AMC and new Active Mining.  I see that there was the mention of prototype machines, engineering costs, etc etc. But most all investors were under the impression once NREs funding was met there would be no more walls. So thats two reasons: x million shares that need to be all out so the transition from old AMC to ActM could transfer smoothly and unexpected costs coupled with a decreased BTC/USD exchange rate. So even if there still were X Million shares that needed to be issued to the market by the end of the month there should have been a logical next step plan for how those were going to be issued. Perhaps not deciding to issue them in a snap decision that would completely jilt the market.

I think even if there is no board formed right now that Ken should seriously consider running his bright ideas (like weekend ask walls or afternoon post NRE funding ask walls) by a group of trusted tight lipped forum members ( like streets2.0, ffsixtynine, lewicki, etc. ) or even friends IRL before just blurting them out to an incredibly jumpy untrusting market. Now, granted, that might create some insider trading type accusations but I'd rather a few guys with the ability to trade a few shares ahead of the curve be able to sharpen Ken's strategy and PR before bungles of this magnitude happen in the future. "Hey Streets 2.0, I think I'm running a little short on capital and I really want to push this NRE deal through with eASIC. I was thinking I would announce another ask wall of 500,000 shares. Sound good?" "Oooh, man, that would be a bad idea. See, here's a way you could do it...."

I mean we had an ask wall crushed with a million shares eaten overnight and then a full NRE funding announcement and shares are still trading flat to where they were 24 hours ago. In this market with the amount of early adopter bitcoins sloshing around that's a spectacular bungle. I mean lets look at the market we're sitting in: Frickin' Cognitive announces another little Avalon coming on board and sees a 20% intraday gain. Hell, Sandstorm wants to speculate with 100 bitcoins and saw a post IPO 20 fold gain in share price. And here we have a company with a million cash from share sales and $500k in pre- order money with deals on the books with chip manufacturers that make this potentially the next ASICminer and we're trading flat???

Seriously.

[ArcticWolf]

I see the second someone says anything kind of negative it's immediately derided as FUD but super pumping circle jerking is given a free pass.  They're both manipulative and/or just opinions.  Like assholes, everyone's got an opinion. Here's mine:

The main things Ken needs to clear up that haven't been were the why of the new ask walls and how many shares are outstanding . I think I'm starting to get an idea as to why, which was all the shares needed to be released before the end of the month for both old AMC and new Active Mining.  I see that there was the mention of prototype machines, engineering costs, etc etc. But most all investors were under the impression once NREs funding was met there would be no more walls. So thats two reasons: x million shares that need to be all out so the transition from old AMC to ActM could transfer smoothly and unexpected costs coupled with a decreased BTC/USD exchange rate. So even if there still were X Million shares that needed to be issued to the market by the end of the month there should have been a logical next step plan for how those were going to be issued. Perhaps not deciding to issue them in a snap decision that would completely jilt the market.

I think even if there is no board formed right now that Ken should seriously consider running his bright ideas (like weekend ask walls or afternoon post NRE funding ask walls) by a group of trusted tight lipped forum members ( like streets2.0, ffsixtynine, lewicki, etc. ) or even friends IRL before just blurting them out to an incredibly jumpy untrusting market. Now, granted, that might create some insider trading type accusations but I'd rather a few guys with the ability to trade a few shares ahead of the curve be able to sharpen Ken's strategy and PR before bungles of this magnitude happen in the future. "Hey Streets 2.0, I think I'm running a little short on capital and I really want to push this NRE deal through with eASIC. I was thinking I would announce another ask wall of 500,000 shares. Sound good?" "Oooh, man, that would be a bad idea. See, here's a way you could do it...."

I mean we had an ask wall crushed with a million shares eaten overnight and then a full NRE funding announcement and shares are still trading flat to where they were 24 hours ago. In this market with the amount of early adopter bitcoins sloshing around that's a spectacular bungle. I mean lets look at the market we're sitting in: Frickin' Cognitive announces another little Avalon coming on board and sees a 20% intraday gain. Hell, Sandstorm wants to speculate with 100 bitcoins and saw a post IPO 20 fold gain in share price. And here we have a company with a million cash from share sales and $500k in pre- order money with deals on the books with chip manufacturers that make this potentially the next ASICminer and we're trading flat???

Seriously.

I think your idea of passing big decisions through a trusted group for feedback is a good one, spur of the moment decisions can definitely hurt shareholder confidence. Id add lolstate and Vbs to the group as well, those two have been very helpful and insightful since I invested.

[soundhead]

Perhaps some shareholder proxy vote setup would be useful - i.e. shareholders can assign their votes to one of the aforementioned trusted forum members when it comes to major decisions?

EDIT: I do realise that shares in these markets do not carry traditional voting rights, but the silent investors should maybe have some say in decisions?

[ChefBorjan]

I'm another longer term supporter of AM (who's been positive in most of my comments thus far) who is also troubled by the recent goings on. There were a few IPO issues much earlier, but I don't understand why these occurred yet again.

The way things are being communicated are quite poor, its very illogical. I'm usually quite good at seeing things from other people's perspectives, but I can't get my head around how Ken is deciding to go about things.

I'm also in the opinion that a board needs to be put together now. VBS and streets are the obvious first choices good. No to lolstate though, he is not coming across as having the maturity that such a position requires. Possibly one or two of the more rational minded critics as well, its good to have a balance.