Which USB hub to use with Block Erupters | NanoFury NF1 | BPMC Red Fury | Ant U1

[xstr8guy]

I had 3 failing old style Anker (Orico, etc) 10 port hubs.  I replaced the power supply with this.  It is 6a instead of 4a which is a nice upgrade from the standard unit. And now 2 of them are again working 100%.  The other hub still has issues and I just can't populate every slot.  It just won't supply power to 3 of the slots.  So I suspect that it's just a dud.

Btw, if there's a referral code in the URL, it's not mine.

I can't tell with the power supply above, but you have to make sure it is a regulated power supply.

If it's not a regulated power supply, the voltage will decrease as the load increases.  

I don't know much about power supplies so I'm not sure what you mean.  Would you please explain what could happen?  Should I stay awake all night with a fire extinguisher nearby?  Lol.  And how can I tell if it is regulated?

[1714872068]

1714872068

[merv77]

if you're BE's are failing/dropping off at or near full load, then you probably don't have a regulated power supply.

best way to check is with multi-meter or as aurel57 has with one of those LED volt meters.

I found also when checking your voltage at the power supply your voltage may be constant, but if you were to check the voltage at the last USB port (furthest away from the power input) there will be a voltage drop.  If using an unregulated power supply then the voltage drop will be greater than a regulated power supply.

You can get a better understanding of the difference between regulated and unregulated power supplies from the link below.
http://www.apogeekits.com/power_adapter_selection.htm

hth,
merv.

[xstr8guy]

if you're BE's are failing/dropping off at or near full load, then you probably don't have a regulated power supply.

best way to check is with multi-meter or as aurel57 has with one of those LED volt meters.

I found also when checking your voltage at the power supply your voltage may be constant, but if you were to check the voltage at the last USB port (furthest away from the power input) there will be a voltage drop.  If using an unregulated power supply then the voltage drop will be greater than a regulated power supply.

You can get a better understanding of the difference between regulated and unregulated power supplies from the link below.
http://www.apogeekits.com/power_adapter_selection.htm

hth,
merv.

These are just the plain ol' Anker-style 10 port hubs that nearly everyone has been using.  The power supplies that ships with them seem to fade out and then die after running the BEs for awhile.

I replaced the standard 12v 4a supply with a generic 12v 6a supply from Amazon.  Certainly that can be no worse than the original power supply, right?

I refuse to mess with rigging up and wiring my own power supplies for USB sticks.  I hated doing that with my Blades.  It just seems so archaic to me to do things that way.  Plug & play or I'm not interested!  Lol.

[merv77]

Simple test to check if your power supply is regulated/switched or unregulated/nonregulated.

Regulated supplies, without any load should measure very close to the target voltage (5 volts in this case).
Unregulated power supplies will generally have a no-load voltage anywhere from a couple of volts to several volts higher.
If the unregulated power supply measures 5 volts without any load, then it would have no headroom to take care of the voltage drop with a load.

[SamHa1n]

I have several lightly used 10A 5VDC DIN mount power supplies I would like to get rid if.

The price i'm asking is .15BTC + shipping anywhere in US.

I can also supply a limited # of modified 10 port hubs like those that I use in my own setup. Those I will sell for .10 + shipping, they will handle 5A easily and are tested for such.

I will also sell entire mining setups that include a minimum of 10amp PSU, 1 configured raspberryPI, SD card, 1 fan, 2 modified 10 port USB hubs, and 19 usb eruptors. Make private offer.

I'm on freenode irc if you have questions, I may not see PM on forum for a day or so.

Freenode is a big place... where you at?

Sorry, idling on #eruptorhub, waiting to peddle my wares...heh

[xstr8guy]

Simple test to check if your power supply is regulated/switched or unregulated/nonregulated.

Regulated supplies, without any load should measure very close to the target voltage (5 volts in this case).
Unregulated power supplies will generally have a no-load voltage anywhere from a couple of volts to several volts higher.
If the unregulated power supply measures 5 volts without any load, then it would have no headroom to take care of the voltage drop with a load.

Thanks for the tip.

But instead I'll just keep checking the hubs to see if the blue lights are still on.  Seems a lot easier than going out to buy some kind of meter I don't know how to use and will never use again.   

[Benny1985]

FYI, SiPort (the people that make the large 20-port hub) have a 10-port available from some wholesalers and factories. Wholesale price should suggest you can get a 12v/4a 10-port hub for about $40-45 USD, depending on supplier.

On my next buy from the factory, I may get some. Apparently, some of the SiPort 20-port hubs (or its knock-offs, at least) WILL run all 20 BE's. I gave one to a friend to test, and he's effectively run 20 on one hub, but requires 2 individual USB cables to connect to the PC.

If anyone would want to try the 10-port SiPort hub, let me know, and I'll order a few from the factory in a few weeks.

[vs3]

Just my 2 cents -

the NanoFury NF1 uses 3 separate voltage regulators (3.3V, 1.8V and 0.8V) and either of them will be perfectly happy with any voltage within the 3.8-5.5V. So even if your 5V supply is not perfectly stable it will most likely work just fine. Of course no words can be a substitute for first hand testing.

This will make it a bit easier for the non-regulated supplies as when they're under no load the voltage may go above 5v, and when under heavy load may drop below 5V. Just be careful under no circumstances to provide more than 5.5V (as this has a chance to fry the regulators), and it shouldn't drop below 3.8V (as this would affect the 3.3V regulator and you'll lose USB connectivity - the USB interface requires 3.3V).

[Nemo1024]

I've posted a new topic on how to clean-up in device manager on Windows, if you shuffled hubs and BEs around a lot lately: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=300638

[elasticband]

found this hub - http://www.conrad.nl/ce/nl/product/976055/Conrad-13-poorts-USB-20-hub-schakelbaar?queryFromSuggest=true


the documentaion says 5v 6.5a = 32.5w = 13 erupters, that is if the port spacing allows for them. 14e for 13 ports makes it extrememly cost effective......... But of course there is a catch......

Power supply included    No

any advice on where to find usable power supplies that will provide the full 5v 6.5a?

peace

[Nemo1024]

It's mentioned in the OP under "Replacement AC adapters". You can also splice into your PSU's 5V line. I've done the latter.

A couple of promised pictures:

First the cables, spliced on Molex splitters (drawing a little over 7A total per splitter). Note that I also used one short 20-pin ATX motherboard extender cable and spliced 5V from it, in addition to having it (instead of the PSU) "paperclipped":



And here is an image of a bunch of D-Links + an ST-Lab with all ports loaded and lit up (fans later went in to the 2 free ports in the case):

[Rishodi]

Just found this on Amazon: Orico usb 3.0 10 ports hub with 12V2.5A power adapter- Piano Black

At 12V, 2.5A, it looks like it should be able to support 10 BEs @ $3.50/port.

[Photon939]

I just grabbed one of these hubs to see how it would work - http://www.ebay.com/itm/251342525547?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

I like the layout of the ports, you could easily fill it with block erupters.

Note that this hub requires some modifications for mining use

1) bypass the power switch or rewire it with heavier wire, the original wire will cause significant voltage drop and heating at 3+ amps
2) desolder the tiny barrel jack and just wire your power supply directly, it will probably melt at 3+ amps
3) desolder the red usb wire coming from the host pc to the pcb, this will stop any voltage from flowing backwards into the pc, there are no protection diodes on the pcb
4) solder a 47uF capacitor across the VCC and GND points that are now free on the PCB, the hub "crashes" and stops working if you don't do this step (it worked fine with a usb keyboard but plugging the miners in caused it to stop functioning until power was cycled to the hub)

So if you feel like tinkering, 5 minutes with a soldering iron can net you a hub at $1/port shipped from USA
I have only tried it with five BF1s so far, full load test to come when I get some more time

[lano1106]

It's mentioned in the OP under "Replacement AC adapters". You can also splice into your PSU's 5V line. I've done the latter.

A couple of promised pictures:

First the cables, spliced on Molex splitters (drawing a little over 7A total per splitter). Note that I also used one short 20-pin ATX motherboard extender cable and spliced 5V from it, in addition to having it (instead of the PSU) "paperclipped":
...

...

Nemo,

I'm just trying to connect the dots concerning the Molex splitters. You have a modular PSU. The cables that are on your picture are plugged in the PSU with the Molex connector and the other end of the cables that we do not see have the roll barrel connectors used to power the hubs. Is that correct?

What is the capacity of your PSU?
How much current do you estimate pulling from your PSU 5V?

I bought 2 huge CoolerMaster 1500W PSUs for when I was planning to build huge GPU rigs that pretty much just have regular load right now.
The specs of these says 30A for the 5V.

[fractalbc]

I just grabbed one of these hubs to see how it would work - http://www.ebay.com/itm/251342525547?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

I like the layout of the ports, you could easily fill it with block erupters.

Note that this hub requires some modifications for mining use

1) bypass the power switch or rewire it with heavier wire, the original wire will cause significant voltage drop and heating at 3+ amps
2) desolder the tiny barrel jack and just wire your power supply directly, it will probably melt at 3+ amps
3) desolder the red usb wire coming from the host pc to the pcb, this will stop any voltage from flowing backwards into the pc, there are no protection diodes on the pcb
4) solder a 47uF capacitor across the VCC and GND points that are now free on the PCB, the hub "crashes" and stops working if you don't do this step (it worked fine with a usb keyboard but plugging the miners in caused it to stop functioning until power was cycled to the hub)

So if you feel like tinkering, 5 minutes with a soldering iron can net you a hub at $1/port shipped from USA
I have only tried it with five BF1s so far, full load test to come when I get some more time

Good report.  I have one of the same hubs.  My initial impression matches yours.  I tossed mine in the "oh well, it might have been good" pile when I saw the power plug.  I would emphasis that this hub REQUIRES modification to be useful for mining.  It is cheap and not only that but unlike most 10 port hubs it is constructed internally as a 4 port hub plus a 7 port hub, unlike most which have a 4 port hub feeding two other 4 port hubs.  It is one of the few hubs I have seen that uses the 7 port chip.

p.s.  gotta love that picture.  A vacuum tube sitting next to a computer keyboard is righteous.  Even I don't keep that many generations of technology living on my desk..

[lano1106]

It is cheap and not only that but unlike most 10 port hubs it is constructed internally as a 4 port hub plus a 7 port hub, unlike most which have a 4 port hub feeding two other 4 port hubs.  It is one of the few hubs I have seen that uses the 7 port chip.

Does this peculiar topology have any advantages over the more common one?

[Nemo1024]

@Rishodi: Added your find to the OP table.

@Photon939: Added your hub to the "Beware" table with an explanation and a link to your instructions.

I'm just trying to connect the dots concerning the Molex splitters. You have a modular PSU. The cables that are on your picture are plugged in the PSU with the Molex connector and the other end of the cables that we do not see have the roll barrel connectors used to power the hubs. Is that correct?

What is the capacity of your PSU?
How much current do you estimate pulling from your PSU 5V?

I bought 2 huge CoolerMaster 1500W PSUs for when I was planning to build huge GPU rigs that pretty much just have regular load right now.
The specs of these says 30A for the 5V.

Yes, that is correct.
I actually use 3 PSUs: one AT from an early Pentium (5V @ 18A), and 2 AXT from Pentium III (5V @ 30A) and Core 2 (5V @ 25A) machines that I once had. Was going to throw away those PSUs, but something stopped me each time: what if I would need them one day. And now that "one day" has come.

The splitters are powering D-Links, which with their 7 BEs should draw around 3.5A-4A. So each connector would draw 8A. A Molex contact is rated to handle 11A, so I am within limits.
ST-Lab, with its 10 BEs should draw around 5A-6A, and I spliced it onto the motherboard ATX connector as the sole cable.

I plug only 1 splitter per Molex string:

18A AT has one Molex splitter connected and draws ~8A
25A ATX has 2 Molex splitters connected, one per sting and draws ~16A
30A ATx has 2 Molex splitter + main plug connected and draws ~22A

I can add one more D-Link hub to the 30A ATX once I get the Blue Furies.

As you can see, the 5V rail has not been ramped up since tose olden days when 5V was more important than 12V, so the old ~280W PSUs have the same 5V capability as you 1500W one. 

The barrel plugs are actually part of the supplies which followed with the hubs. I just cut the cables off (leaving a bit of a cable on the AC adapter side intact in case I need to re-attach to those later).
3 PSUs is an improvement over 11 AC adapters, which were barely squeezable into 2 power strips, and were running very hot, resulting in one burnt out AC adapter an me finally splicing all the cables.

[Gomeler]

Before I dive down a potentially deep rabbit hole, has anyone considered building their own USB hubs? I spent an hour last night reading up on USB.org's design guides for USB2.0 design and looking into TI's 7-port USB chip schematics and it all looks very simple. From what I can tell, it sounds like most of the USB hubs are integrating overcurrent protection ganged across all the ports, rather than a per-port OCP.

I'm thinking to start using TI's 7-port USB2.0 hub chip, provide 500ma OCP per port, and have a Molex 8981 header to power the hub + ports. I'm doing this mostly as I just received some BEs and want to immersion cool them in mineral oil after I replace their oscillators. My only concern is current consumption of modded BEs and whether 500ma is sufficient or if I should step up to 1a and configure the hub for charging downstream ports.

edit: Screw it, going with 1.5 amp per port as per the charging downstream port requirements.

[Photon939]

Good report.  I have one of the same hubs.  My initial impression matches yours.  I tossed mine in the "oh well, it might have been good" pile when I saw the power plug.  I would emphasis that this hub REQUIRES modification to be useful for mining.  It is cheap and not only that but unlike most 10 port hubs it is constructed internally as a 4 port hub plus a 7 port hub, unlike most which have a 4 port hub feeding two other 4 port hubs.  It is one of the few hubs I have seen that uses the 7 port chip.

p.s.  gotta love that picture.  A vacuum tube sitting next to a computer keyboard is righteous.  Even I don't keep that many generations of technology living on my desk..

Maybe you got a slightly different version? Mine had 3 separate 4 port chips and 3 separate crystals for said chips. It had a few itty bitty bypass capacitors on the hub chips but that obviously wasn't enough for a device that has significant inrush current.

Before I dive down a potentially deep rabbit hole, has anyone considered building their own USB hubs? I spent an hour last night reading up on USB.org's design guides for USB2.0 design and looking into TI's 7-port USB chip schematics and it all looks very simple. From what I can tell, it sounds like most of the USB hubs are integrating overcurrent protection ganged across all the ports, rather than a per-port OCP.

I'm thinking to start using TI's 7-port USB2.0 hub chip, provide 500ma OCP per port, and have a Molex 8981 header to power the hub + ports. I'm doing this mostly as I just received some BEs and want to immersion cool them in mineral oil after I replace their oscillators. My only concern is current consumption of modded BEs and whether 500ma is sufficient or if I should step up to 1a and configure the hub for charging downstream ports.

edit: Screw it, going with 1.5 amp per port as per the charging downstream port requirements.

You will definitely need the higher current capacity if you plan on overclocking them, they push the USB spec envelope a bit at the stock frequency and when overclocked can consume 1A or more.

The hubs I've seen so far haven't bothered with individual port OCP, or any OCP at all. The Rosewill 7 and 10 port hubs had spots on the PCB for picofuses on each port but they were all soldered with 0 ohm resistors. The 7 port however did have backfeed protection via four 1A schottky diodes. The 10 port Rosewill did not have any host power passthrough at all) The cheapo $10 10 port china hub I just got had wimpy wiring, cheap board design, no electrolytic capacitors, questionable soldering quality and the host PC USB +5v rail was tied directly to the barrel jack for power input.

Making your own hub could be rewarding but hardly cost effective. The amount of time spent designing and having board designs sent off for fabricating would cost quite a bit when the $25 rosewill hubs are built quite well otherwise.

[Nemo1024]

@Gomeler: If you decide to go for it, this post might be of interest: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=253749.msg2863038#msg2863038

@Photon939: Thanks for the additional info on Rosewill. Do you know if D-Link 7-port has backfeed protection? It appears it does not from my empiric experience, but I have not opened it.