WTF Avalon? Ship the Chips!

[mgio]

Please DON'T ship the chips. I want my 3-months-late Avalon batch 2 to actually be worth something!

[iikun]

I'm not trolling or arguing with you but I'm sorry when you send BTC the number one concern should be will you get what you are paying for and if anyone it's hero members who should remind others about that.  If Avalon folds up will you be covering anyones loses since you state you are doing so well?  Probably not, so Avalon took a free ride on the back of your good reputation.  I see plenty of advantages in bitcoin but this deal is not an "investment" it's just buying mining gear much like people were buying video cards before.  I wish everyone luck but I think anyone who is talking about this like it's some sort of "investment" is way off.  Even you say "might win" and winning is for lotteries not investments.  ASICminer USB has been reduced in price by 75% already.  True fiat costs of these ASIC chips is very low and eventually the sales price for them must reach that low point where electricity will be 75%-90% of your bitcoin production costs because as long as electricity isn't higher they will be profitable to make sell and run.  That's a very long road ahead and there will be lots and lots of companies running with the BTC until the market gets there.  Be careful when "investing".

I think a lot of what you are arguing may well boil down to lost in translation. Seb is German "winning" - "profit" all the same.  Anyway, I believe what he is doing is commendable.  Everyone in his group buys realize the risk involved, BTC as a whole is risky. But, if it wasn't for people trying to strengthen the BTC network then BTC would be worthless.  He's helping the community by spending tons of his time helping others purchase something that they want, avalon chips/miners. 

Even if electricity costs are 90% of your operational cost a 10% gain is a winning investment.  The problem, is that Avalon is blowing all their timelines and promises, which has nothing to do with Seb and the service he is providing.  But, as a result that 10% return is slowly dwindling to nothing.

This forum isn't for throwing hate at another user and I don't think anyone appreciates it.

+1
Although hero users should know more than noobs there is no guarantee that they are investment minded. The only reason I chose which buy to take part in was down to timing and who I could trust as far as getting the BTC to Avalon. I knew I was taking a risk & I accept (but not happy with) any resulting lost profits or loss. Reputation on this forum is a poor substitute for due diligence, although I do believe that at this point group buy organizers should be taking the lead in attempting to get more info from Avalon.

[SebastianJu]

I'm not trolling or arguing with you but I'm sorry when you send BTC the number one concern should be will you get what you are paying for and if anyone it's hero members who should remind others about that.  If Avalon folds up will you be covering anyones loses since you state you are doing so well?  Probably not, so Avalon took a free ride on the back of your good reputation.  I see plenty of advantages in bitcoin but this deal is not an "investment" it's just buying mining gear much like people were buying video cards before.  I wish everyone luck but I think anyone who is talking about this like it's some sort of "investment" is way off.  Even you say "might win" and winning is for lotteries not investments.  ASICminer USB has been reduced in price by 75% already.  True fiat costs of these ASIC chips is very low and eventually the sales price for them must reach that low point where electricity will be 75%-90% of your bitcoin production costs because as long as electricity isn't higher they will be profitable to make sell and run.  That's a very long road ahead and there will be lots and lots of companies running with the BTC until the market gets there.  Be careful when "investing".

Of course i thought about the possibility that avalon is going scammy, but there was zero sign that this will happen. Scammy is a hard word anyway. I really doubt Yifu is scamming at the moment. He most probably only has a view of justice that leads to chip buyers having to wait for the batch 3 miners to deliver. Its his decision and he has to live with the results, which will be harm to his reputation and the risk that customers will think twice before investing anything. Most wont do anymore.

But at the moment when the chips were sold it looked like a sure thing. Im not sure if you were here at that time but i tell you its the case. And of course i warned the buyers to make a risk analysis before. But im not in the USA where you have to tell everyone that coffee can be hot. If you dont tell you can be sued. Normally everyone who invests should think about this carefully too. But like i said, i warned too even though everyone has to do this on its own.

I think its an investment. If you put money into something and await a profit at the end i take it as an investment. And an investment has the risk involved to lose money too. At the moment Yifu "only" eats up our additional return, hopefully not more and he stops this soon.

[SebastianJu]

... although I do believe that at this point group buy organizers should be taking the lead in attempting to get more info from Avalon.

Then you have an idea how to do this? Like i wrote several times i tried to call Yifu for days 2-4 times each hour. He wont answer. He is waiting until the voice recorder answers or click you away. When writing tickets or mails he checks the header and... looks away again.

I dont know how i could contact him. If you know a way let me know.

[Chefnet]

some life in there can we get a visit?

[ionstorm]

How many millions of dollars is in play?  I wonder how long it'll take for the media to see this story....

[Minor Miner]

... although I do believe that at this point group buy organizers should be taking the lead in attempting to get more info from Avalon.

Then you have an idea how to do this? Like i wrote several times i tried to call Yifu for days 2-4 times each hour. He wont answer. He is waiting until the voice recorder answers or click you away. When writing tickets or mails he checks the header and... looks away again.

I dont know how i could contact him. If you know a way let me know.

Yifu is a complete piece of shit.  The sooner people accept this and start telling him this (especially in person at conferences) the better.   There is ample evidence that he STOLE batch II and mined the machines for his own gain and was going to send the dusty used machines to people until Vicus outed him on this.
He does not answer calls, not because he is too busy, but because he is a piece of shit, sorry excuse for a human being.
It does not take that long to answer the 200 tickets they had, yet they do not give a shit to do it.   People (especially those who have their order and will NEVER order from him again) should start calling a spade, a spade.   
There were corrupt, they stole from the people that trusted them and now it is VERY likely that they are delaying your chip purchases because THEY ARE STILL MINING the silver batch II units that they STOLE and by shipping chips, they will reduce the number of BTC they mine each day.

[jspielberg]

... although I do believe that at this point group buy organizers should be taking the lead in attempting to get more info from Avalon.

Then you have an idea how to do this? Like i wrote several times i tried to call Yifu for days 2-4 times each hour. He wont answer. He is waiting until the voice recorder answers or click you away. When writing tickets or mails he checks the header and... looks away again.

I dont know how i could contact him. If you know a way let me know.

Yifu is a complete piece of shit.  The sooner people accept this and start telling him this (especially in person at conferences) the better.   There is ample evidence that he STOLE batch II and mined the machines for his own gain and was going to send the dusty used machines to people until Vicus outed him on this.
He does not answer calls, not because he is too busy, but because he is a piece of shit, sorry excuse for a human being.
It does not take that long to answer the 200 tickets they had, yet they do not give a shit to do it.   People (especially those who have their order and will NEVER order from him again) should start calling a spade, a spade.   
There were corrupt, they stole from the people that trusted them and now it is VERY likely that they are delaying your chip purchases because THEY ARE STILL MINING the silver batch II units that they STOLE and by shipping chips, they will reduce the number of BTC they mine each day.

Did you ever consider that Yifu may not be in charge but just the face of the company?
He lives in NY., how much control could he have over the operations in China?

[zeraTunerse]

How many millions of dollars is in play?  I wonder how long it'll take for the media to see this story....

In media? Never. Does BFL delays got much media coverage?

[bitcoiner49er]

Did you ever consider that Yifu may not be in charge but just the face of the company?
He lives in NY., how much control could he have over the operations in China?

From his own mouth (keyboard): http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/10vmxa/avalon_asic_ama/

[–]jimgolian 2 points 10 months ago

How are you now head of operations? I thought nzhang was in charge and he had some professor who was uber smart helping him along with a Chinese team.

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[–]yifuguo 0 points 10 months ago

What you said is correct.

he is in charge of all the technical development, I suppose I shouldn't have used such misleading title as we don't have really have a corporate structure in this project. but if you want to look at it, he is CTO and I'm more of a CFO/COO person.

So either he doesn't know what a COO or a CFO does, or he's giving everyone the finger as he trolls through life.

A Chief Operating Officer (or Chief Operations Officer; COO) or Director of Operations (or Operations Director) can be one of the highest-ranking executives in an organization and comprises part of the "C-Suite". The COO is responsible for the daily operation of the company, and routinely reports to the highest ranking executive, usually the Chief Executive Officer (CEO). The COO may also carry the title of President which makes him or her a clear second in command at the firm, especially if the highest ranking executive is the Chairman and CEO.

[RoadStress]

... although I do believe that at this point group buy organizers should be taking the lead in attempting to get more info from Avalon.

Then you have an idea how to do this? Like i wrote several times i tried to call Yifu for days 2-4 times each hour. He wont answer. He is waiting until the voice recorder answers or click you away. When writing tickets or mails he checks the header and... looks away again.

I dont know how i could contact him. If you know a way let me know.

Yifu is a complete piece of shit.  The sooner people accept this and start telling him this (especially in person at conferences) the better.   There is ample evidence that he STOLE batch II and mined the machines for his own gain and was going to send the dusty used machines to people until Vicus outed him on this.
He does not answer calls, not because he is too busy, but because he is a piece of shit, sorry excuse for a human being.
It does not take that long to answer the 200 tickets they had, yet they do not give a shit to do it.   People (especially those who have their order and will NEVER order from him again) should start calling a spade, a spade.   
There were corrupt, they stole from the people that trusted them and now it is VERY likely that they are delaying your chip purchases because THEY ARE STILL MINING the silver batch II units that they STOLE and by shipping chips, they will reduce the number of BTC they mine each day.

Did you ever consider that Yifu may not be in charge but just the face of the company?
He lives in NY., how much control could he have over the operations in China?

Then how hard is for him to come forward and tell us something? There is simply no excuse for not keeping us updated.

[Minor Miner]

... although I do believe that at this point group buy organizers should be taking the lead in attempting to get more info from Avalon.

Then you have an idea how to do this? Like i wrote several times i tried to call Yifu for days 2-4 times each hour. He wont answer. He is waiting until the voice recorder answers or click you away. When writing tickets or mails he checks the header and... looks away again.
I dont know how i could contact him. If you know a way let me know.

Yifu is a complete piece of shit.  The sooner people accept this and start telling him this (especially in person at conferences) the better.   There is ample evidence that he STOLE batch II and mined the machines for his own gain and was going to send the dusty used machines to people until Vicus outed him on this.
He does not answer calls, not because he is too busy, but because he is a piece of shit, sorry excuse for a human being.
It does not take that long to answer the 200 tickets they had, yet they do not give a shit to do it.   People (especially those who have their order and will NEVER order from him again) should start calling a spade, a spade.   
There were corrupt, they stole from the people that trusted them and now it is VERY likely that they are delaying your chip purchases because THEY ARE STILL MINING the silver batch II units that they STOLE and by shipping chips, they will reduce the number of BTC they mine each day.

Did you ever consider that Yifu may not be in charge but just the face of the company?
He lives in NY., how much control could he have over the operations in China?

Not sure how your point (which I think is wrong btw) would change ANYTHING that I just wrote.   If Yifu is "just the guy that gets 1/2 the profits" and the evil zhang is controlling him like a puppet, then all my points STAND.   He is a POS that has stolen from people while telling you how "holy" he is.   If he has completely been "used" like you insinuate than why would this "honorable" man not warn all of us that we are being ripped off and he could not control it?   He would still be a useless piece of shit in your above example.

[-Redacted-]

Or maybe he's just decided to retire and live life as a multi-millionaire in China.

[Xian01]

[–]jimgolian 2 points 10 months ago

How are you now head of operations? I thought nzhang was in charge and he had some professor who was uber smart helping him along with a Chinese team.

[–]yifuguo 0 points 10 months ago

What you said is correct.

he is in charge of all the technical development, I suppose I shouldn't have used such misleading title as we don't have really have a corporate structure in this project. but if you want to look at it, he is CTO and I'm more of a CFO/COO person.

So either he doesn't know what a COO or a CFO does, or he's giving everyone the finger as he trolls through life.

 Well, I guess this makes two Bitcoin ASIC companies I'm never doing business with again...

 Very disappointing to see these scenarios play out.

 *mumbles something about money, power and corruption*

[jspielberg]

Did you ever consider that Yifu may not be in charge but just the face of the company?
He lives in NY., how much control could he have over the operations in China?

Not sure how your point (which I think is wrong btw) would change ANYTHING that I just wrote.   If Yifu is "just the guy that gets 1/2 the profits" and the evil zhang is controlling him like a puppet, then all my points STAND.   He is a POS that has stolen from people while telling you how "holy" he is.   If he has completely been "used" like you insinuate than why would this "honorable" man not warn all of us that we are being ripped off and he could not control it?   He would still be a useless piece of shit in your above example.

True... there are not many scenarios where Yifu comes off as the good guy.

The fact of the matter is... there may be good reasons why they aren't shipping chips, but we don't know them because he is unwilling to give out bad news.  Though no news is even worse when people's imaginations are left to run wild.

[Bitcoinorama]

Fact is once delays happen you should be given daily updates. Bitsyncom's team are just as responsible for the silence, but Yifu is especially responsible, distance being located in New York is no exception, less so, as it's out of free choice. If he cares he should be in China now, fully hands on, especially as there are delays. He may be young, but he is an adult and he is responsible for this company.

BFL and Avalon's responses, or lack of when things go awry are not common practice in real world business. This is amateur behaviour and Bitsyncom having the luxury if another company before them making all the wrong moves have less of an excuse to be behaving this way.

You need daily updates now, grace period is over, there is now no excuse for silence from Yifu or Zhang, or for that matter anyone involved in the design team, but it's ultimately Yifu and Zhangs responsibility, legally speaking.

[SebastianJu]

Sometimes i believe he has this problem: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workaholic

If true it would explain why he cant delegate work to others, for example the support. He seems to want to do everything on its own and maybe he doesnt realize at all that he cant handle it.

[Micky25]

Yifu Guo is Asian, these people don't like to talk about problems or admit mistakes. It's about "loosing face".

"Losing Face is much more intense than suffering embarrassment or shame. In extreme cases it can be like losing all the senses, or losing one's place in life. Complete loss of Face is like full exile - you become a non-person, even to family and close friends. You can't speak or be spoken to. You can't be heard or seen. You are just not present."

"Losing face is simply a Chinese not knowing how to deal with rejection or criticism. They are raised pampered, especially males, and showered with positive reinforcement for good and bad. They are set up from the very beginning to not know how to deal with losing, as their parents once were. They also were taught to ignore problems or issues if they don't affect them, to avoid trouble and confrontation. So since the entire nation grew up under these conditions for hundreds of years, it became culture. No one questions it as it's the norm. It's not right, but it now is a part of their life, and customs. Simple."

http://www.internationalman.com/78-global-perspectives/490-what-is-face-in-asian-culture-and-why-should-we-care

[bitcoiner49er]

I think this sums it up

[Boxman90]

So Yifu did an "I so shamed, i think im gon kil myself ni hao"