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Author Topic: bitHopper: Python Pool Hopper Proxy  (Read 333047 times)
Sukrim
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July 14, 2011, 02:06:41 PM
 #201

You guys walk in and raid little pools of existing users and "steal" part of their profits.
Uhm no...

Whoever is stupid enough to mine 24/7 in a proportional pool deserves it. AND whoever sets up a proportional pool also deserves being hopped. There are at least 2 guaranteed safe hopping proof payout methods out there with 0 risk for the operator and other miners and the same or similar variance for miners.

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July 14, 2011, 02:17:07 PM
 #202

You guys walk in and raid little pools of existing users and "steal" part of their profits.
Uhm no...

Whoever is stupid enough to mine 24/7 in a proportional pool deserves it. AND whoever sets up a proportional pool also deserves being hopped. There are at least 2 guaranteed safe hopping proof payout methods out there with 0 risk for the operator and other miners and the same or similar variance for miners.

+1. Bithopper was set up in order to help these proportional pools wise up to the fact and switch over to fairer methods. Before proxy's like Bithopper were publicly available hopping still occurred, just the people who were doing it weren't telling you.

We're actually helping the bitcoin community over here... Hopping is helping shall we say!  Grin

Grin
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July 14, 2011, 02:31:35 PM
 #203

You guys walk in and raid little pools of existing users and "steal" part of their profits.
Uhm no...

Whoever is stupid enough to mine 24/7 in a proportional pool deserves it. AND whoever sets up a proportional pool also deserves being hopped. There are at least 2 guaranteed safe hopping proof payout methods out there with 0 risk for the operator and other miners and the same or similar variance for miners.

Look! There are people out in the streets without any guns. They are stupid to run around 24/7 without protection, they deserve to be robbed.  Cheesy

You guys walk in and raid little pools of existing users and "steal" part of their profits.
Uhm no...

Whoever is stupid enough to mine 24/7 in a proportional pool deserves it. AND whoever sets up a proportional pool also deserves being hopped. There are at least 2 guaranteed safe hopping proof payout methods out there with 0 risk for the operator and other miners and the same or similar variance for miners.

+1. Bithopper was set up in order to help these proportional pools wise up to the fact and switch over to fairer methods. Before proxy's like Bithopper were publicly available hopping still occurred, just the people who were doing it weren't telling you.

We're actually helping the bitcoin community over here... Hopping is helping shall we say!  Grin

It is quite different to have a few smart people figure out ways to gain the system compared to a publicly available refined tool which enables a large part of the community to "help pools switch over to fairer methods".
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July 14, 2011, 02:41:49 PM
 #204

Uh oh when in trouble just phone D.W ... DARKWING DUCK.

...In the land of the stale, the man with one share is king... >> Clipse

We pay miners at 130% PPS | Signup here : Bonus PPS Pool (Please read OP to understand the current process)
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July 14, 2011, 02:43:23 PM
 #205

It is quite different to have a few smart people figure out ways to gain the system compared to a publicly available refined tool which enables a large part of the community to "help pools switch over to fairer methods".
There was very noticeable amount of hopping miners for pretty long time now, they were clearly seen on eligus graph weeks ago.
And i wouldn't call this tool "refined" in any sense except maybe it doesn't crash.
Sukrim
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July 14, 2011, 03:03:01 PM
 #206

Look! There are people out in the streets without any guns. They are stupid to run around 24/7 without protection, they deserve to be robbed.  Cheesy
If you think a gun protects you, you might also mine proportionally! Tongue

The publicly available refined tool which enables a large part of the community to "help pools switch over to fairer methods" already exists in the form of hopping-proof payout algorithms. For about half a year now. If (new!) pools like triplemining choose to still proportional payouts, this is knowing that it's users can and will be exploited (some even write this on their main page).

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joulesbeef
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July 14, 2011, 03:04:57 PM
 #207

Quote
Look! There are people out in the streets without any guns. They are stupid to run around 24/7 without protection, they deserve to be robbed.


Um not even the same. Look what if I took Us dollars and traded them for various currencies around the world and then back into dollars and got a proffit. You held onto your dollars 24/7 and are pissed I made money off mine.

Quote
It is quite different to have a few smart people figure out ways to gain the system compared to a publicly available refined tool which enables a large part of the community to "help pools switch over to fairer methods".


not really, you are just upset at scale. If you consider it cheating than it is cheating weather one does it or 20. It doesnt matter if only a few smart people do it, it is still cheating.  Pool operators dont give a shit, it doesnt hurt them. So nothing will change unless you actually let people understand this is going on.

Plus I find it hard to think of it as cheating when their isnt even the slightest of obstacles to get around. Not even a user agreement that says I cant do this. Kinda hard to claim I am breaking the rules when you cant even point to the rule I broke.

What If i found a way to edit the miner software and add say 3% of speed.. none of you have that speed increase.. would that be cheating? Shouldnt we all be forced to use the same mining software?


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July 14, 2011, 03:29:52 PM
 #208

Plus I find it hard to think of it as cheating when their isnt even the slightest of obstacles to get around. Not even a user agreement that says I cant do this. Kinda hard to claim I am breaking the rules when you cant even point to the rule I broke.

What If i found a way to edit the miner software and add say 3% of speed.. none of you have that speed increase.. would that be cheating? Shouldnt we all be forced to use the same mining software?

+1

Also joulesbeef: Greatest Avatar Ever +1111111
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July 14, 2011, 03:32:42 PM
 #209

Im getting pretty high rejected rates using bithopper, is this normal?

between 8-15% rejected.

Also another issue it seems to jump to silly pools while still below the 40-50% market of a new block on another pool.

Example: I am on btcguild block thats still new around 100k shares , it then jumps to bitpit which is over 1.5mil shares.

Am I missing something ? Smiley

...In the land of the stale, the man with one share is king... >> Clipse

We pay miners at 130% PPS | Signup here : Bonus PPS Pool (Please read OP to understand the current process)
koopa
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July 14, 2011, 03:33:49 PM
 #210

It is quite different to have a few smart people figure out ways to gain the system compared to a publicly available refined tool which enables a large part of the community to "help pools switch over to fairer methods".

Well think about this then...

One "smart" person has 500+ GH/s at their disposal and uses their own coded pool hopper. Then 500 1GH/s "average Joe's" turn up and start pool hopping using Bithopper.

IMO that one "smart" person is doing more damage. At least with Bithopper the pools know it is happening > their users know it is happening > users get angry at pools for letting it happen > pools take appropriate measures to stop it from happening.

Hopping is helping Grin

Grin
koopa
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July 14, 2011, 03:36:12 PM
 #211

Im getting pretty high rejected rates using bithopper, is this normal?

between 8-15% rejected.

Yes, I was also getting around 10% rejected today. I think there is a problem with LP support in the recent bithopper build.

I have reverted to the previous version for now, I'm sure c00w will resolve this later.

Grin
kbsbtc
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July 14, 2011, 03:39:53 PM
 #212

Does anyone know why im getting these API errors for bitclockers/bitpit ?


Code:
Error in user api for bitp
"[Failure instance: Traceback: <type 'exceptions.ZeroDivisionError'>: float division by zero\n/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/twisted/internet/defer.py:1076:gotResult\n/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/twisted/internet/defer.py:1063:_inlineCallbacks\n/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/twisted/internet/defer.py:361:callback\n/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/twisted/internet/defer.py:455:_startRunCallbacks\n--- <exception caught here> ---\n/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/twisted/internet/defer.py:542:_runCallbacks\n/home/miner1/bitHopper/stats.py:65:selectsharesResponse\n/home/miner1/bitHopper/stats.py:55:parse_bitp\n]"

Code:
"[Failure instance: Traceback: <type 'exceptions.ZeroDivisionError'>: float division by zero\n/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/twisted/internet/defer.py:1076:gotResult\n/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/twisted/internet/defer.py:1063:_inlineCallbacks\n/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/twisted/internet/defer.py:361:callback\n/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/twisted/internet/defer.py:455:_startRunCallbacks\n--- <exception caught here> ---\n/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/twisted/internet/defer.py:542:_runCallbacks\n/home/miner1/bitHopper/stats.py:65:selectsharesResponse\n/home/miner1/bitHopper/stats.py:39:parse_bitclockers\n]"

I'm getting the same thing....
Clipse
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July 14, 2011, 03:44:46 PM
 #213

Well the log with floating error seems to be fixed with issue posted by ryo on the issues page.

Im mainly concerned with the other issues listed:

1. high stales/rejected.
2. randomly connecting to high share rounds on pools it shouldnt connect to.

...In the land of the stale, the man with one share is king... >> Clipse

We pay miners at 130% PPS | Signup here : Bonus PPS Pool (Please read OP to understand the current process)
callmeivan
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July 14, 2011, 03:50:36 PM
 #214

Look! There are people out in the streets without any guns. They are stupid to run around 24/7 without protection, they deserve to be robbed.  Cheesy
If you think a gun protects you, you might also mine proportionally! Tongue

The publicly available refined tool which enables a large part of the community to "help pools switch over to fairer methods" already exists in the form of hopping-proof payout algorithms. For about half a year now. If (new!) pools like triplemining choose to still proportional payouts, this is knowing that it's users can and will be exploited (some even write this on their main page).

People dont seem to be able to grasp the hopping-proof payout structure - new pools are forced to offer the traditional system. Large enough pools can switch but might as well lose user.


Quote
Look! There are people out in the streets without any guns. They are stupid to run around 24/7 without protection, they deserve to be robbed.


Um not even the same. Look what if I took Us dollars and traded them for various currencies around the world and then back into dollars and got a proffit. You held onto your dollars 24/7 and are pissed I made money off mine.

Quote
It is quite different to have a few smart people figure out ways to gain the system compared to a publicly available refined tool which enables a large part of the community to "help pools switch over to fairer methods".


not really, you are just upset at scale. If you consider it cheating than it is cheating weather one does it or 20. It doesnt matter if only a few smart people do it, it is still cheating.  Pool operators dont give a shit, it doesnt hurt them. So nothing will change unless you actually let people understand this is going on.

Plus I find it hard to think of it as cheating when their isnt even the slightest of obstacles to get around. Not even a user agreement that says I cant do this. Kinda hard to claim I am breaking the rules when you cant even point to the rule I broke.

What If i found a way to edit the miner software and add say 3% of speed.. none of you have that speed increase.. would that be cheating? Shouldnt we all be forced to use the same mining software?

If you trade your dollars you also take a risk, i am fine with that.

I am upset about the fact that i am forced to either gain the system like you guys or switch to another pool with hopping measures in place.

If you find a way to increase the speed you could use it yourself and have little impact at all, sell it (again, little impact) or release it for free which wouldnt hurt anybody - word spreads fast and people would upgrade to your miner.

It is quite different to have a few smart people figure out ways to gain the system compared to a publicly available refined tool which enables a large part of the community to "help pools switch over to fairer methods".

Well think about this then...

One "smart" person has 500+ GH/s at their disposal and uses their own coded pool hopper. Then 500 1GH/s "average Joe's" turn up and start pool hopping using Bithopper.

IMO that one "smart" person is doing more damage. At least with Bithopper the pools know it is happening > their users know it is happening > users get angry at pools for letting it happen > pools take appropriate measures to stop it from happening.

Hopping is helping Grin

There is nobody with 500+ GH/s at their disposal. Most of the userbase consist of little hashing power/user.
Sukrim
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July 14, 2011, 03:52:03 PM
 #215

1. Can be also because of poor pool performance. If you try to manually connect to that pool and not through bitHopper, do your stales get less?

2. Is something I never experienced yet. Currently I'm mining away at ozco.in with:
[17:46:51] mining.mainframe.nl :3664244
[17:46:51] mineco :474659
[17:46:51] bitcoin.lc :5291446
[17:46:51] mtred :1915681
[17:46:51] triplemining :1046166
[17:46:51] bitclockers efficiency: xxx
[17:46:51] bitclockers :1404907
[17:46:51] bitp.it efficiency: xxx
[17:46:51] pool.bitp.it :1206567
[17:46:51] btcguild :600806
[17:46:52] btcguild efficiency: xxx
[17:46:52] eclipsemc :3799559
[17:46:52] ozcoin :358315

and it doesn't seem to have jumped anywhere. Do you use the latest version from github?

If you trade your dollars you also take a risk, i am fine with that.

I am upset about the fact that i am forced to either gain the system like you guys or switch to another pool with hopping measures in place.

If you find a way to increase the speed you could use it yourself and have little impact at all, sell it (again, little impact) or release it for free which wouldnt hurt anybody - word spreads fast and people would upgrade to your miner.
You would (if all other adopt this) increase the hash rate worldwide by 3%, thus you'd earn less than if you kept the tweak to yourself.

Pool hopping also has a risk of earning less in the short run (on long rounds you loose), pools switching payout systems, pool operators plainly stealing from you (which is REALLY easy by the way, look it up in the pools forum) etc.

If users are too stupid to be able to get a system like PPLNS (which is 100% like proportional, only that the definition of "round" doesn't start when a new block is found) or SMPPS (which is in the longer run just like PPS) then they also shouldn't complain if someone is smart enough to not mine full time in their pool if it pays off less and less over time.

https://bitfinex.com <-- leveraged trading of BTCUSD, LTCUSD and LTCBTC (long and short) - 10% discount on fees for the first 30 days with this refcode: x5K9YtL3Zb
Mail me at Bitmessage: BM-BbiHiVv5qh858ULsyRDtpRrG9WjXN3xf
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July 14, 2011, 04:11:16 PM
 #216

1. Can be also because of poor pool performance. If you try to manually connect to that pool and not through bitHopper, do your stales get less?

2. Is something I never experienced yet. Currently I'm mining away at ozco.in with:
[17:46:51] mining.mainframe.nl :3664244
[17:46:51] mineco :474659
[17:46:51] bitcoin.lc :5291446
[17:46:51] mtred :1915681
[17:46:51] triplemining :1046166
[17:46:51] bitclockers efficiency: xxx
[17:46:51] bitclockers :1404907
[17:46:51] bitp.it efficiency: xxx
[17:46:51] pool.bitp.it :1206567
[17:46:51] btcguild :600806
[17:46:52] btcguild efficiency: xxx
[17:46:52] eclipsemc :3799559
[17:46:52] ozcoin :358315

and it doesn't seem to have jumped anywhere. Do you use the latest version from github?

If you trade your dollars you also take a risk, i am fine with that.

I am upset about the fact that i am forced to either gain the system like you guys or switch to another pool with hopping measures in place.

If you find a way to increase the speed you could use it yourself and have little impact at all, sell it (again, little impact) or release it for free which wouldnt hurt anybody - word spreads fast and people would upgrade to your miner.
You would (if all other adopt this) increase the hash rate worldwide by 3%, thus you'd earn less than if you kept the tweak to yourself.

Pool hopping also has a risk of earning less in the short run (on long rounds you loose), pools switching payout systems, pool operators plainly stealing from you (which is REALLY easy by the way, look it up in the pools forum) etc.

If users are too stupid to be able to get a system like PPLNS (which is 100% like proportional, only that the definition of "round" doesn't start when a new block is found) or SMPPS (which is in the longer run just like PPS) then they also shouldn't complain if someone is smart enough to not mine full time in their pool if it pays off less and less over time.

1. Yep without bithopper Im getting ~0.5% stales on btcguild, with bithopper it average out at 8% stales.

2. Im using the latest version , the hopping happens quite often then resets to proper lowest shares pool after ~2mins

...In the land of the stale, the man with one share is king... >> Clipse

We pay miners at 130% PPS | Signup here : Bonus PPS Pool (Please read OP to understand the current process)
kbsbtc
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July 14, 2011, 04:37:13 PM
 #217

There seems to be an edit on github a few minutes ago on the LP.py maybe c00w fixed it?
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July 14, 2011, 05:07:22 PM
 #218

Using phoenix and -u localhost:8337 I just get:


Unknown protocol:
kbsbtc
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July 14, 2011, 05:11:52 PM
 #219

Using phoenix and -u localhost:8337 I just get:


Unknown protocol:


Try throwing any credentials at it and see if it works
Sukrim
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July 14, 2011, 05:26:00 PM
 #220

Weird... ozco.in reports 446976 shares but I seem to mine at eligius sometimes.

Also nothing was yet written to my stats file, maybe try to flush the writes every once in a while - or maybe I did something wrong...
Edit: no, just kill it with Ctrl+c and the stats magically appear. Seems like the writes don't get flushed to me.

https://bitfinex.com <-- leveraged trading of BTCUSD, LTCUSD and LTCBTC (long and short) - 10% discount on fees for the first 30 days with this refcode: x5K9YtL3Zb
Mail me at Bitmessage: BM-BbiHiVv5qh858ULsyRDtpRrG9WjXN3xf
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