CoinTerra announces its first ASIC - Hash-Rate greater than 500 GH/s

[DeathAndTaxes]

I don't think "American" has anything to do with it.   Hashfast made a big deal when they completed their tapeout.   It is the last NRE step and it usually requires the producer to also prepay for at least one batch (20 wafers) of silicon.  From a customer perspective it is a pretty big deal (chips may still be delayed but production has begun) so any company is going to report it.   It can't hurt to report it and it certainly can help increase future sales.

The simplest explanation for a lack of tapeout announcement is .... they haven't taped out.  Why?  I have no idea.  Hopefully it will happen soon.

[regular]

They updated their website so we know they're not dead.  http://cointerra.com/cointerra-unveils-terraminer-case-design-beast/

Looks like a fancier Avalon case design.

[RoadStress]

They updated their website so we know they're not dead.  http://cointerra.com/cointerra-unveils-terraminer-case-design-beast/

Looks like a fancier Avalon case design.

I really don't understand what is happening. The only time we saw pretty 3d renders before this was xCrowd and that was a big fail. Now Cointerra shows this, but no tape-out, while HashFast did tape-out but we can't see anything, but we get big announcements and partnerships and a more appealing MPP. No matter how both companies turn out i'm sure it will be interesting.

[aerobatic]

CoinTerra does state in the release that: "CoinTerra® is on schedule for December 2013 delivery date for the first batch of TerraMiner™, with mock tape-out already performed and tape-out soon to follow. ". So with mock tape-out done tape out should not be far behind, as a mock tape-out is a very close-in-time preparation for actual tape out.

i quite like the renders.. its nice to see whats inside.   even xcrowd, with their (very) pretty renders, didnt show what the insides looked like (presumably because they didnt get close to designing them ;-)

fwiw, hashfast had this to say on mock tape-out...

https://hashfast.com/countdown-to-tapeout/

[iCEBREAKER]

I don't think "American" has anything to do with it.   Hashfast made a big deal when they completed their tapeout.   It is the last NRE step and it usually requires the producer to also prepay for at least one batch (20 wafers) of silicon.  From a customer perspective it is a pretty big deal (chips may still be delayed but production has begun) so any company is going to report it.   It can't hurt to report it and it certainly can help increase future sales.

The simplest explanation for a lack of tapeout announcement is .... they haven't taped out.  Why?  I have no idea.  Hopefully it will happen soon.

Cointerra hasn't taped out because

1) they were not able to raise the ~$5,000,000 for the NRE.

2) they have zero experience doing original designs from scratch, and can't write good RTL quickly

3) they announced physical spec (GH/W/sec) before doing physical emulation, and can't achieve it

4) they are primarily a marketing, not engineering, driven company so their mouth (sales team) makes promises ("tape-out first week of Oct") their ass (engineers) can't back up.


Yes, their web page is very slick.  I was fooled too, until I started digging around for due diligence reasons.

[cypherdoc]

CoinTerra does state in the release that: "CoinTerra® is on schedule for December 2013 delivery date for the first batch of TerraMiner™, with mock tape-out already performed and tape-out soon to follow. ". So with mock tape-out done tape out should not be far behind, as a mock tape-out is a very close-in-time preparation for actual tape out.

i quite like the renders.. its nice to see whats inside.   even xcrowd, with their (very) pretty renders, didnt show what the insides looked like (presumably because they didnt get close to designing them ;-)

fwiw, hashfast had this to say on mock tape-out...

https://hashfast.com/countdown-to-tapeout/

HF is currently working on producing 3D renders.

[aerobatic]

They updated their website so we know they're not dead.  http://cointerra.com/cointerra-unveils-terraminer-case-design-beast/

Looks like a fancier Avalon case design.

I really don't understand what is happening. The only time we saw pretty 3d renders before this was xCrowd and that was a big fail. Now Cointerra shows this, but no tape-out, while HashFast did tape-out but we can't see anything, but we get big announcements and partnerships and a more appealing MPP. No matter how both companies turn out i'm sure it will be interesting.

RoadStress -

you've seen most asic companies do renders...  its what they do when they dont yet have their chips back from the fab...   Granted, none were as pretty as xCrowd!

here's ButterFlyLabs...

https://products.butterflylabs.com/homepage-new-products/300-gh-bitcoin-mining-card.html

Here's HashFast...

https://hashfast.com/shop/sierra-third-batch/

Here's Bitmine/Coincraft...

https://bitmine.ch/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/first-look-3.jpg

[iCEBREAKER]

I seriously doubt any foundry in the world would allow a company to do a mock tape-out without tape-out funds on hand, contracts signed and a very close to tape out date booked. 28nm ASIC tape-out isn't exactly something that a foundry will get involved with without the proper financials and documents signed.

Cointerra is using a mock foundry for their mock tape-out.



They paid ActiveMining $5000 worth of logo design for the mock NRE.   

[RoadStress]

CoinTerra does state in the release that: "CoinTerra® is on schedule for December 2013 delivery date for the first batch of TerraMiner™, with mock tape-out already performed and tape-out soon to follow. ". So with mock tape-out done tape out should not be far behind, as a mock tape-out is a very close-in-time preparation for actual tape out.

i quite like the renders.. its nice to see whats inside.   even xcrowd, with their (very) pretty renders, didnt show what the insides looked like (presumably because they didnt get close to designing them ;-)

fwiw, hashfast had this to say on mock tape-out...

https://hashfast.com/countdown-to-tapeout/

HF is currently working on producing 3D renders.

Of what's already real stock?

@aerobatic I'm sorry but BFL's seems more like a copycat LOL while bitmine's just a case.

[San1ty]

Jummy!

http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/714ca786ef

[aerobatic]

Jummy!
http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/714ca786ef

just out of interest... do you think 117% monthly net difficulty rise is sustainable (and/or likely) for the entire year?

and have you tried running any and every miner through the same forecast assumptions?  (answer: using those assumptions, there is no miner available that you can buy today, that will do any better)

so the only question is, are those the right assumptions?

[Puppet]

just out of interest... do you think 117% monthly net difficulty rise is sustainable (and/or likely) for the entire year?

Nope, but its certainly sustainable for the next months which are the ones that truly matter. KnC alone has the production and assembly capacity for ~4 PH per month, and they are looking to expand that. During the next few months, we will see the race joined by Hashfast, Activeminer, Bitmine.ch, Cointerra, possibly even BFL (monarch) and maybe some dark horses (asicminer, avalon, bitfury, .. ?). 117% monthly may well turn out to be a too conservative estimate for the next 4-5 months. Sometime next year it will inevitably slow down but by that time, no one who placed his order today will really care anymore.

[San1ty]

just out of interest... do you think 117% monthly net difficulty rise is sustainable (and/or likely) for the entire year?

Nope, but its certainly sustainable for the next months which are the ones that truly matter. KnC alone has the production and assembly capacity for ~4 PH per month, and they are looking to expand that. During the next few months, we will see the race joined by Hashfast, Activeminer, Bitmine.ch, Cointerra, possibly even BFL (monarch) and maybe some dark horses (asicminer, avalon, bitfury, .. ?). 117% monthly may well turn out to be a too conservative estimate for the next 4-5 months. Sometime next year it will inevitably slow down but by that time, no one who placed his order today will really care anymore.

Thanks for answering in my place! I couldn't have said it better myself.

And indeed none of the miners out there are profitable, my statement was more regarding mining in general and not specifically targeted to Cointerra.

[aerobatic]

Nope, but its certainly sustainable for the next months which are the ones that truly matter. KnC alone has the production and assembly capacity for ~4 PH per month, and they are looking to expand that. During the next few months, we will see the race joined by Hashfast, Activeminer, Bitmine.ch, Cointerra, possibly even BFL (monarch) and maybe some dark horses (asicminer, avalon, bitfury, .. ?). 117% monthly may well turn out to be a too conservative estimate for the next 4-5 months. Sometime next year it will inevitably slow down but by that time, no one who placed his order today will really care anymore.

any asic company could order any amount, including knc.  thats not the issue.  theyre not rationally going to order that amount unless there are orders, and customers for that amount.  And at the price knc is charging, i dont think they can sell 4 PH a month.  Probably at most 1 PH a month.  now, the other guys, hashfast and cointerra are offering lower prices... so maybe their volumes could be higher, but theyre delivering later..  and yet again, they need actual customers to be able to manufacture seriously high PH's...  none of these guys have enough finance nor would want to risk buying huge amounts of PH's without customers attached

[Puppet]

any asic company could order any amount, including knc.  thats not the issue.  theyre not rationally going to order that amount unless there are orders, and customers for that amount. 

For the foreseeable future (which is only a few months in the bitcoin world I guess), whatever these 28nm vendors can produce, they will be able to sell. Not for the current prices, but certainly profitably. I dont think you realize the gross profit margins on these products. NRE was very high,  but unit production cost is only a tiny fraction of current list prices. These chips themselves cost next to nothing. If margins on mining rigs become too slim, they will just start selling chips instead and leave it to others to produce the boards and rigs. For the record, BFL is still selling old 65nm chips for $75. these cant possibly cost more than $7.5 to produce.  We got quite some way to go down in price and up in hashrate.

[MidwestMiner]

I would argue that difficulty most certainly will continue to rise for the next 2-5 months. The question isn't really how fast diff rises in my opinion but rather what product to buy based on power efficiency since with the current 'best tech' is 28nm and will be for the foreseeable future, there really isn't any way that diff will rise beyond what is profitable for latest gen tech to mine.

What we will see is an extrapolated version of CPU/GPU and GPU/Gen1 ASIC curve. Diff will rise until a point where the only profitable mining instruments are low watt consumption 28nm ASIC and it will then plateau until the next Gen ASIC starts trickling out prob around early 2015 at the earliest.

[ImI]

Is there any information regarding shipping options and price? UPS? DHL?

[crazy_rabbit]

I would argue that difficulty most certainly will continue to rise for the next 2-5 months. The question isn't really how fast diff rises in my opinion but rather what product to buy based on power efficiency since with the current 'best tech' is 28nm and will be for the foreseeable future, there really isn't any way that diff will rise beyond what is profitable for latest gen tech to mine.

What we will see is an extrapolated version of CPU/GPU and GPU/Gen1 ASIC curve. Diff will rise until a point where the only profitable mining instruments are low watt consumption 28nm ASIC and it will then plateau until the next Gen ASIC starts trickling out prob around early 2015 at the earliest.

I think that in the end, cost of power won't come into factor for awhile considering that to keep ahead of the difficutly you will need to just stock pile more and more hashpower. While power will come into account at some point, in the meantime I think we will just continue to see a massive runup in hashrate, which will be the bulk of most people concerns.

[fractal02]

Cointerra is still on track or what ?

Tape out or not ?

Pretty quiet...

[cointerra]

We are indeed on track for our delivery times. Mock tape-out was performed and our tape out is very near. The community can expect more information soon as we get closer to production.