CoinTerra announces its first ASIC - Hash-Rate greater than 500 GH/s

[aerobatic]

Well 0.6 J/GH at the chip isn't <0.5 J/GH at the wall.  I honestly could give two craps about the at chip efficiency unless the company selling them is willing to a) pay for all the non-chip power use or b) I was designing my own miner and buying raw chips by the reel.

The 'at the wall' power includes not only the chips'  power consumption...  but also the Controller's power (which isn't going to change much between now and next 6 months)... and includes power supply & dc/dc converter inefficiencies... which isn't going to change at all and hasn't changed for years... so even if the chips consume HALF the power of their previous generation... the rest of the system is still going to be a drag to halving the 'at the wall' power.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Well your points (which I agree) indicate it won't be much of a drag.  The losses at PSU and DC regulator are perfectly linear, if efficiency is doubled then at the chip then (excluding controller and cooling) is going to be doubled at the wall as well. Also 55nm has 1/4 not 1/2 the transistor density of 28nm (55/28)^2 ~= 4.   While a 400% improvement in efficiency is unlikely 200% maybe 250% wouldn't be that unusual.  0.9/2.5 = 0.36 J/GH.   The controller is negligible (5W maybe 10W) so A lot will depend on what wattage is needed for cooling.  Still lets look at a Cointerra rig you are looking at two 8W pumps and six likely 6W fans plus maybe 10W for the host so that is ~62W which is only a 4% overhead.  So yeah that 60W or so isn't going to be reduced but it is a minor drag.

Of course who knows if Bitfury can pull it off, or be able to take the time needed given the more competitive environment, to do a hand placed 28nm chip.  Still it does make me lower my own upper bound on what efficiency I think is plausible for 28nm.   I think 0.4 J/GH (at the wall) might be possible compared to ~0.8 J/GH for all existing specs and rigs.

[iCEBREAKER]

Icebreaker.. you keep trying to throw shit at cointerra without looking closer to home.   both hashfast AND cointerra raised private investment at around the same time.  Any accusation you can level at cointerra you have exactly the same situation with hashfast.  the shit you're trying to pull doesn't work because it applies equally to your strange bedfellow.

And as for the IceDrill deal, that wasn't an investment... that was a bulk purchase.  they're customers of hashfast, like the rest of us.  Do you think they're happy customers... why not ask them?

theres no nonsense going on... and theres no tears.   both hashfast AND cointerra are doing pretty well.   Not as well as KnC or BFL, but still all of those guys are doing pretty well.  Ironically the one who isn't, right now, is AsicMiner, who had a brilliant start and has failed to follow through.

And don't start saying that $1.5m isn't a large investment.  it was enough... and it was more than some and less than others.   Do you know, by any chance, how much your team raised?   I'm curious to hear your view.

"Around the same time?"  Didn't I just tell you I saw, and participated, in the market for the entire duration of that time?

Listen Brave Sir Jez, your attempt to gloss over ("exactly the same...applies equally") the crucial distinctions I've drawn isn't going to fly.

IceDrill's first two IPO rounds completely drained what little leftover capital was available after months of ASICminer, Avalon, BitFury, KnC, and ACTM pre-orders/group-buys/stock bubbles.

IceDrill's third round never sold a single share, just as CryptX's initial round was a colossal failure.

Since you insist on being thick, allow me to succinctly pierce your shell of ignorance:

IceDrill (helped pay HashFast NRE as early bulk investo-omer): TWO successful IPO rounds, raising over TWO million dollars

CryptX (attempted to help pay Cointerra NRE as early bulk investo-mer): ZERO successful IPO rounds, raising about ZERO million dollars

Clear enough?

In the exorbitantly costly 28nm ASIC sector, $1.5 million is a medium-sized investment.  Large-ish begins at $2M.

If Cointerra hadn't botched their first attempted tape-out, it might have been enough.  But they blew it, and wasted that $1.5 million fixing their unforced error.

"Botched tape-out" is the last thing one may truthfully accuse HashFast of.

HashFast has several large investors thanks to their timeliness, while Cointerra has far fewer because of their tardiness.

[aerobatic]

Well your points (which I agree) indicate it won't be much of a drag.  The losses at PSU and DC regulator are perfectly linear, if efficiency is doubled then at the wall (excluding controller and cooling) is going to be doubled as well.  Also 55nm has 1/4 not 1/2 the transistor density of 28nm (55/28)^2 ~= 4.   While a 400% improvement in efficiency is unlikely 200% maybe 250% wouldn't be that unusual.  0.9/2.5 = 0.36 J/GH.   The controller is negligible (5W maybe 10W).  A lot will depend on what wattage is needed for cooling but even if you take Cointerra rig you are looking at two 8W pumps and six likely 6W fans plus maybe 10W for the host so that is ~62W which is only a 4% overhead. 

Of course who knows if Bitfury can pull off (or be able to take the time) to do a hand placed 28nm chip but it does make the lower the limit of what efficiency is possible at 28nm.  I think 0.4 J/GH might be possible compared to 0.8 J/GH for all existing specs and rigs.  

this will always be a dilemma...  no one seems to want ultra low power designs right now.

people want max performance..   so if you DID design a lower power asic, people would end up over clocking it more, and making it less efficient.. just so it would run faster.

the irony is that absolutely any of the 28nm asics could also be 0.4 W/GH/s, if they were undervolted, but no one actually wants that (in the short term).  they prefer to over-volt them and run them faster!

[aerobatic]

"Around the same time?"  Didn't I just tell you I saw, and participated, in the market for the entire duration of that time?

Listen Brave Sir Jez, your attempt to gloss over ("exactly the same...applies equally") the crucial distinctions I've drawn isn't going to fly.

IceDrill's first two IPO rounds completely drained what little leftover capital was available after months of ASICminer, Avalon, BitFury, KnC, and ACTM pre-orders/group-buys/stock bubbles.

IceDrill's third round never sold a single share, just as CryptX's initial round was a colossal failure.

Since you insist on being thick, allow me to succinctly pierce your shell of ignorance:

IceDrill (helped pay HashFast NRE as early bulk investo-omer): TWO successful IPO rounds, raising over TWO million dollars

CryptX (attempted to help pay Cointerra NRE as early bulk investo-mer): ZERO successful IPO rounds, raising about ZERO million dollars

Clear enough?

In the exorbitantly costly 28nm ASIC sector, $1.5 million is a medium-sized investment.  Large-ish begins at $2M.

If Cointerra hadn't botched their first attempted tape-out, it might have been enough.  But they blew it, and wasted that $1.5 million fixing their unforced error.

"Botched tape-out" is the last thing one may truthfully accuse HashFast of.

HashFast has several large investors thanks to their timeliness, while Cointerra has far fewer because of their tardiness.

you have a very active imagination.  most of what you say is not close to the reality and/or complete fabrication.

I'm trying not to knock any particular team because i prefer to stay pragmatic as much as possible.  your warped one-sided view has completely distorted your ability to comprehend the reality, and your trolling doesn't work here.

btw, cryptx were i believe the first investors in cointerra... and I'm not aware if they ever tried to do an iceDrill style group buy with them.. and i understand cointerra has raised private investment in more than one round and has been stepping up the valuation at each round.  I'm sure they've continued to raise private investment and are well north of $1.5m by now.

And what makes you think that delaying their tapeout by 4 weeks had a $1.5m cost to them?  why would that have any direct cost to them (beyond paying expedite fees, which are thousands not millions!)

Also, you mistakenly think the IceDrill ipo was a huge success.  It went ok.  no one's complaining... but in reality i think all parties thought it was going to be more popular and raise a lot more cash than it did.. and the order was scaled back accordingly.   i think had it been an investment in the company, rather than a group buy, it might've done better (and be more similar to AsicMiner in concept)

[iCEBREAKER]

btw, cryptx were i believe the first investors in cointerra... and I'm not aware if they ever tried to do an iceDrill style group buy with them

My dear White Knight, the world is not limited to what you happen to be "aware" (or in this case, unaware) of.

I can't educate you if you don't pay attention and assimilate all the relevant facts:

-CryptX's principals were indeed seed investors in CT, hence their desire to double-dip by gathering public funds for their private pockets

-CryptX tried to copy Icedrill with their Petamine project

-Petamine failed to sell even 5% of its initial shares, then unilaterally changed the terms of their IPO (no voting rights, funny numbers, etc.) like typical scammers

-Icedrill sold out their first two rounds of funding but the market was too exhausted for the third round (much less CryptX's Petamine shenanigans)

https://btct.co/security/PETA-MINE

CryptX will offer this opportunity by creating a PETA-MINE with 1,000 TH/s of hashing power. The core hardware for the mine will be a 28nm chip from Cointerra.

The IPO will prove successful with the sale of at least 30,000 shares. If fewer than 30,000 shares sell within 30 days, CryptX will refund the entire IPO to shareholders.

[RoadStress]

How's the power consumption?

At the moment, I don't have anything to measure it, I will come back to you.
But it can't be much, the whole setup doesn't even get lukewarm

I did not watch the red LED frequency with mine stacks, but what prevented them from reaching 400GHps turned out to be insufficient power. With 850W PSUs I was not able to reach more than 360 (and also had USB errors, btw.), now with a 1200W PSU everything works smooth and each board is at 50GHps on average (1080mV, 275MHz). At wall I measure around 750W draw, but there might be spikes that a PSU operated at its edge can't handle.

What you can try to double check is to operate only 4 boards at a time and check they reach 200GHps (terminate CAN bus correctly + unplug ribbon cable from inactive ones). If so, you need a stronger PSU.

So i knew something...

[Micky25]

So i knew something...

Zefir is talking about the boards from burnin, mine are the c-scape/bitfury/bfsb. Burnin clocks the chips higher.

[DeathAndTaxes]

So i knew something...

Zefir is talking about the boards from burnin, mine are the c-scape/bitfury/bfsb. Burnin clocks the chips higher.

Exactly.  The burnin boards are 50 GH/s the "standard" H-boards are ~33 GH/s.  Higher clock, higher voltage, higher power consumption. 

[RoadStress]

So i knew something...

Zefir is talking about the boards from burnin, mine are the c-scape/bitfury/bfsb. Burnin clocks the chips higher.

I know. Earlier on this thread i stated that i saw somewhere that bitfury chips run at 2W/GH, but i couldn't remember where. Now i just posted proof that i wasn't talking out of my ass like most people here on the forum.

[Micky25]

my bad, didn't read the whole thing 

[fractal02]

CoinTerra is dead or what ?

No news...

[aerobatic]

CoinTerra is dead or what ?

No news...

What news were you hoping for?

they taped out 10 days or so ago... we wont expect much news now til they get chips back in december... unless they want to send us photos of the chips being made in the fab at the halfway point or something.   or maybe photos of some of the parts arriving before manufacture (i imagine that too will be in december).

i imagine theyre snowed in with orders at this point... every time the price of btc goes up, i think more people order mining equipment.

[fractal02]

February batch is sold out !

[aerobatic]

February batch is sold out !

wow... either they're selling very well or their batch size is small.  I'm betting the former... with the price of bitcoin going through the roof, it makes cointerra's pricing look like a bargain ($3/GH)

[HugPuddle]

What do people think, is CoinTerra legit?
We are looking to buy an asic soon - need some advice!

[btc_uzr]

What do people think, is CoinTerra legit?
We are looking to buy an asic soon - need some advice!

I'd say better do your research dude, instead of asking some strangers in the internet, otherwise you will regret it...
and keep in mind what looks like the dream today might become your tomorrow's nightmare

mining is in first place for enthusiasts, the greedy buy and hold coins as it offers more profit

[aerobatic]

What do people think, is CoinTerra legit?
We are looking to buy an asic soon - need some advice!

Yes, Cointerra is legit, as are several other companies (including hashfast, kncminer, bitmine).

if you tell us more about why you are asking we can be more helpful...

-- Jez

[VJLoops]

Anyone had any luck recently with contacting Cointerra by email/forum/PM/telephone?  I've made several attempts and had no luck.  It also appears they are moderating their forum posts on http://forum.cointerra.com/ which is totally fine by me but at least dedicate a person to moderate them.  It's not like they are dealing with thousands of posts.  Being legit in my book means hiring some extra staff to respond to legitimate customer requests during normal working hours.  

[sharpspoon]

Anyone had any luck recently with contacting Cointerra by email/forum/PM/telephone?  I've made several attempts and had no luck.  It also appears they are moderating their forum posts on http://forum.cointerra.com/ which is totally fine by me but at least dedicate a person to moderate them.  It's not like they are dealing with thousands of posts.  Being legit in my book means hiring some extra staff to respond to legitimate customer requests during normal working hours.  

they have ignored several emails from me for two weeks now.  prior to my purchase they answered within an hour on several occasions.