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Author Topic: HashFast launches sales of the Baby Jet  (Read 118946 times)
plasmoske
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August 10, 2013, 01:47:58 AM
 #161

Has anybody asked about escrow for a pre-order?

No escrow. No refunds. No credit cards/paypal. Bitcoin only.
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August 10, 2013, 01:54:05 AM
 #162

Has anybody asked about escrow for a pre-order?

No escrow. No refunds. No credit cards/paypal. Bitcoin only.

there will be full refunds available if they fail to deliver by Dec 31.
plasmoske
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August 10, 2013, 01:54:33 AM
 #163

just realizing this whole thing really is buyer beware!

And that's exactly what it is. You "invest" too much and they don't deliver or have delays? You're a goner.

If you do want to preorder a miner, do your own research first (don't listen to bullshit shills and all that) and if you have the money (and it won't be a big deal if it's gone), then I say go for it.
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August 10, 2013, 01:55:17 AM
 #164

there will be full refunds available if they fail to deliver by Dec 31.

They claim they will refund your money if they don't deliver by Dec 31.  However, they haven't explained how exactly they'll be able to afford to do that.

plasmoske
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August 10, 2013, 01:59:37 AM
 #165

Yeah it's just their word and it's up to you if anyone wants to trust what they say.

We send them $100 > they use some of it to fund boards/chips/salary. Let's just say $30 is left.

Let's just say the chips did not turn out to be functional or even working. Jan 1st 2014 comes and they got nothing to show.

People start wanting refunds. Now how are they going to do a full refund only when they have $30 in their pockets?
BitCsByBit
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August 10, 2013, 02:01:59 AM
 #166

If they ship on the 30th Dec, they don't have to refund.

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plasmoske
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August 10, 2013, 02:03:09 AM
 #167

People don't question anything around here. They just see product. Names behind said product. Shills endorsing product. And immediately just starting throw money at them.

No-one even knows what connectivity this miner has or why the photo shows 6 chips instead of 1. How are they going to do a full refund.

How many miners are they planning to build/ship daily from the starting date?

People need to start asking the hard questions. $5K ain't some small money for some.
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August 10, 2013, 02:09:27 AM
 #168

Yeah it's just their word and it's up to you if anyone wants to trust what they say.

We send them $100 > they use some of it to fund boards/chips/salary. Let's just say $30 is left.

Let's just say the chips did not turn out to be functional or even working. Jan 1st 2014 comes and they got nothing to show.

People start wanting refunds. Now how are they going to do a full refund only when they have $30 in their pockets?

Do you guys not realize this is how EVERY ASIC development has been so far? Someone has to foot the bill. BFL did it, Avalon did it, ASICMINER did it, Bitfury did it, ... every other company is trying to do it, (except for maybe labcoin and one or two others- which are not accepting pre-orders minus labcoin.)

What would BFL/Avalon/ASICMINER/Bitfury have done if they failed? They would be screwed in the same way, only having pennies to the dollar left over. The key is assembling or partnering with an experienced team that can get it done.

I don't see what the big deal is. They have an experienced team with expertise to make a product, and we have money to fund their project- without it the project may never get off the ground. In making a pre-order, you are investing in the company you made that pre-order with. Whether they rise to the occasion or fail is unknown as it's in the future. It's up to you whether you want to take that risk. If not, then move on, why do you have to congest the thread for people that might actually be interested.

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August 10, 2013, 02:12:15 AM
 #169

People don't question anything around here. They just see product. Names behind said product. Shills endorsing product. And immediately just starting throw money at them.

No-one even knows what connectivity this miner has or why the photo shows 6 chips instead of 1. How are they going to do a full refund.

How many miners are they planning to build/ship daily from the starting date?

People need to start asking the hard questions. $5K ain't some small money for some.

GOOD POINTS!  Considering 550 units this is more like - 2.75 MILLION dollar deal - hopefully these questions can get answered.  Seriously - $5k is real money...

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August 10, 2013, 02:13:35 AM
 #170

What would BFL/Avalon/ASICMINER/Bitfury have done if they failed? They would be screwed in the same way, only having pennies to the dollar left over.

So you're saying their "if no miner by Dec 31st 2013 = full refund" is bullshit?

The problem is here people being complacent and not demanding anything. Get some standards people.

Paying $5K and not even getting any answers or the complete specs/timeline/capacities is just bullshit.
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August 10, 2013, 02:14:51 AM
 #171

What would BFL/Avalon/ASICMINER/Bitfury have done if they failed? They would be screwed in the same way, only having pennies to the dollar left over.

So you're saying their "if no miner by Dec 31st 2013 = full refund" is bullshit?

Yes

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August 10, 2013, 02:16:19 AM
 #172

Yeah it's just their word and it's up to you if anyone wants to trust what they say.

We send them $100 > they use some of it to fund boards/chips/salary. Let's just say $30 is left.

Let's just say the chips did not turn out to be functional or even working. Jan 1st 2014 comes and they got nothing to show.

People start wanting refunds. Now how are they going to do a full refund only when they have $30 in their pockets?

Do you guys not realize this is how EVERY ASIC development has been so far? Someone has to foot the bill. BFL did it, Avalon did it, ASICMINER did it, Bitfury did it, ... every other company is trying to do it, (except for maybe labcoin and one or two others- which are not accepting pre-orders minus labcoin.)

What would BFL/Avalon/ASICMINER/Bitfury have done if they failed? They would be screwed in the same way, only having pennies to the dollar left over. The key is assembling or partnering with an experienced team that can get it done.

I don't see what the big deal is. They have an experienced team with expertise to make a product, and we have money to fund their project- without it the project may never get off the ground. In making a pre-order, you are investing in the company you made that pre-order with. Whether they rise to the occasion or fail is unknown as it's in the future. It's up to you whether you want to take that risk. If not, then move on, why do you have to congest the thread for people that might actually be interested.

I'm very interested - I'd just like to know a few more answers before sending another asic company another serious amount of money!  I was ready to buy today until I started reading some of the questions...

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August 10, 2013, 02:17:40 AM
 #173

Stay Away because they don't have guarantee delivery time and don't have credit card payments option.
plasmoske
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August 10, 2013, 02:19:49 AM
 #174

I don't really have a problem with that "pre-order" method anyway. The biggest problem I have with most of these startup ASIC company is that they're not transparent enough or don't fully give out the whole picture.

You might notice over the last 6 pages there were some questions but they haven't been answered still. Pretty shitty sales service don't you think?

And this is when they're trying their best to suck you in to fund their project. Imagine what happens when they already have the money. Why the fuck they need to keep you up to date on their project. There's no more need to suck up to you.

It's like Avalon. Please guys this product is the best. Please fund us. People send monies. Months later. Minimal products/minimal replies.
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August 10, 2013, 02:27:37 AM
 #175

Yeah it's just their word and it's up to you if anyone wants to trust what they say.

We send them $100 > they use some of it to fund boards/chips/salary. Let's just say $30 is left.

Let's just say the chips did not turn out to be functional or even working. Jan 1st 2014 comes and they got nothing to show.

People start wanting refunds. Now how are they going to do a full refund only when they have $30 in their pockets?

Do you guys not realize this is how EVERY ASIC development has been so far? Someone has to foot the bill. BFL did it, Avalon did it, ASICMINER did it, Bitfury did it, ... every other company is trying to do it, (except for maybe labcoin and one or two others- which are not accepting pre-orders minus labcoin.)

Yes, and how well has it worked out for customers of BFL? not to mention later Avalon customers?  I think (Although I'm not sure) that Bitfury had sample chips available before they took orders.  

And I also don't remember ASICminer taking pre-orders.  They did an IPO, like ActiveMining, Labcoin and BTCGarden are doing now.

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What would BFL/Avalon/ASICMINER/Bitfury have done if they failed? They would be screwed in the same way, only having pennies to the dollar left over. The key is assembling or partnering with an experienced team that can get it done.

Exactly, except they're claiming they'll refund people's money if they fail, and they need to explain how they'll be able to afford to do that if they do.

Quote
I don't see what the big deal is. They have an experienced team with expertise to make a product, and we have money to fund their project- without it the project may never get off the ground. In making a pre-order, you are investing in the company you made that pre-order with. Whether they rise to the occasion or fail is unknown as it's in the future. It's up to you whether you want to take that risk. If not, then move on, why do you have to congest the thread for people that might actually be interested.

The big deal is:
 
1) they're keeping all the relevant information to themselves.  We don't know how many chips they're planning to produce and sell.  The more they sell, the less profit there is for customers.  Avalon published the number of units they would sell in each batch.  BFL gave no indication at all, not how many units they'd ship or where you would even be in the queue.   Who got a better deal in the end, Avalon B1/B2 customers, or BFL customers?

2) We don't know how well they'll do at actually manufacturing these devices. Avalon was only a little late with it's first batch, a couple months late with it's second, and it's third batch is 3 months late. Users may never see an ROI.  HashFast is pushing most of that risk onto their customers, by refusing to take credit cards and giving themselves an extra 2.25 months that they can be late before they hit the date that they're even supposed to promise to pay customers back.

4) What about other difficulty increases from other competitors?  That's a risk as well.

HashFast is pushing all their risk onto their customers. And yet, if they succeed in raising enough money to go into production, they'll be able to ship their first orders and then immediately start cranking out unlimited numbers of chips that they can either self-mine with or sell at far lower costs in order to reap the vast majority of the profits.

It's all about balance.  Balancing risk and profit between the ASIC makers and the customers.   If they were to lower the price, it would mean reducing the risk for customers while keeping the reward mostly constant. Or, they could accept credit card and reduce risk that way. Or they could take partial payment up front and require the rest when they're ready to ship.

So the basic problem is that in this case it seems like the risk/reward balance is tilted in the direction of the manufacture, making it a bad deal.

Especially with KnC's announcement that devices for November delivery will cost less then $5k.  That would be a much better deal.

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August 10, 2013, 02:57:14 AM
 #176

"if no miner shipped by Dec 31st 2013 they will refund" .Are u out of  ur mind ,it gona be too late for a decent ROI and could be a high risky .If HashFast promise they will ship by the end of 1st of Nov .then that will make sense for buyers.
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August 10, 2013, 03:03:32 AM
 #177

there will be full refunds available if they fail to deliver by Dec 31.

No, there will be no refund.
Check the ToS, it's obvious.

And it is why they don't answer to my 3rd QUESTION.

Edit : As a side note, they haven't replied to the first one, either.  Embarrassed

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plasmoske
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August 10, 2013, 03:13:20 AM
 #178

Do not listen to cypherdoc. He is a shill.

If you want any answers? You'd want to hear it straight the hashfast guys.
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August 10, 2013, 05:18:15 AM
 #179

Now since the only payment option is in BTC Will I get the same ammount of BTC back should you fail to deliver by December 31st?

Or are you going to pull BFL and give refunds at exchange equivalent to USD/BTC indexed to the current fiat price per unit?

Maybe I am too paranoid but I get a feeling this is another company that will take preorders hedging on BTC to rise by the deadline and gladly refund any customer while constantly pumping empty promises and fake news.


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August 10, 2013, 05:59:57 AM
 #180

Do not listen to cypherdoc. He is a shill.

If you want any answers? You'd want to hear it straight the hashfast guys.

He is definitely a shill
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