HashFast launches sales of the Baby Jet

[gateway]

I'd like to write today about a small piece of why we are confident our product is better than KnCs.

So today's topic: Our silicon design is superior.

Both are 28nm designs, but HashFast's is far more powerful and energy-efficient.

Let's look at KnC's 28nm ASIC, and some basic details as we can pull from their documentation. https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-25

First let's calculate the hash rate per square millimeter of silicon. This is a measure of the efficiency of the design.

Honestly, we don't need much to estimate this. The lid size for their chip is enough to make some good estimates.
 
KnC's diagram shows their chip has a 41.2mm lid, and implies that the silicon under that lid may be between 30mm x 30mm, and 36mm x 36mm. (The additional space is needed for decoupling capacitors and such.)
    Let's use those two numbers as bounds for the size of the silicon under the lid. If the die(s) take up just 30x30mm of the space under the lid, then:
     30x30mm = 900mm^2
     100 GHash / 900 mm^2 = 0.11 GHash/mm^2

    Or if the die takes up a bit more of the space under the lid,
      36x36mm = 1296mm^2
      100 GHash / 1296mm^2 = 0.077 GHash/mm^2

HashFast's Golden Nonce chip: I don't have to estimate the size because I work at HashFast.
   One 18x18mm die is able to do 400 GHash (nominal - more overclocked**)
   Hashing per square mm:
      18x18mm = 324mm^2
      400 GHash / 324mm^2 = 1.23 GHash/mm^2
   
Let's compare those numbers, for the high and low values for KnC's chip:

      1.23 / 0.11 = 11.2
      1.23 / 0.077 = 16

So HashFast's chip is between 11 and 16 times more efficient, in hashing per square mm, than KnC's chip.

This has an impact on how fast we can deliver units to customers. One wafer of HashFast's chips has the same capacity as 11 to 16 wafers of KNCs. For each silicon wafer delivered by the foundry, KNC will be able to satisfy 11 to 16 times fewer customers than HashFast will be able to. You'll get your units faster once production starts from us.

In addition, the HashFast chip operates much more efficiently. You get four times the hash rate for the same amount of power (250W). (Based on 250W for 100 GHash from KnC, and 250W for 400 GHash from HashFast.)

Calculations such as this are a small part of why we are confident that we are delivering a quality product to our customers.

We figure it's time to start sharing.

Amy Woodward

VP Engineering
HashFast

** P.S. Simon made me put in the line about overclocking. But as per the 'warranty' thread, no one would ever do that to our beautiful chips, right?

Nice Info Amy!

[AussieHash]

Your superior chip has not yet taped out, needs water cooling and comes only with a 10day warranty.

Not trolling, I have orders with both companies.

[SirWizz]

What a bunch of BS . Your chip might be more efficient but it is late. That's a way bigger sin that not being as efficient in this business. It is also more expensive than the Nov price for the KNC units (5,600 vs 5,000), not to mention that you charge what amounts to extortion prices for shipping (KNC's price is 4-5 times lower!).

KNC have stated numerous times that they don't ship in batches, and they can accommodate hundreds of orders daily. But yes, please tell us more about how we can get it from you for more money in November . More for the base unit, and way more for shipping. I highly doubt that the efficiency will matter much in the end, a 400 GH/s chip is a 400 GH/s chip, it will take a long time for someone to recoup the price difference between the two systems based on energy savings alone.

Oh, and just to put the cherry on top, you still don't offer any CC/PayPal options. That says lots about your confidence in delivering this product on time (and not good things I am afraid).

So let's sum it up. Higher pricing for hashing unit and shipping. BTC only (no protection for buyer). Claim you can get it faster (that's just a claim without any substance, you have no idea how many chips have been ordered by KNC).

Color me unimpressed Miss/Mrs Amy Woodward.

[RChevalier]

@Amy

Not sure why you felt compelled to write all that in the first place.  Unless they publicly put your product down first, and you are posting a reply with proof against it.  If your chips are that much better just state their specs as they are and we can figure out for ourselves what suits our needs best.  This type of "this is why we are better than so and so" seems a bit petty and unprofessional.  In addition, claiming your chips are 11 to 16 more efficient implies it either hashes 11 to 16 times more per same wattage or draws 11 to 16 times less power to hash the same amount.  Without the final products to take actual readings against each other, statements like this is misleading at best.  Lastly, how many times more efficient your chips are compared to something else doesn't matter when you take into account the time factor.  No one will argue with you in that your chips are vastly more efficient than batch 1 Avalons.  Yet no one can argue the result that owning a batch 1 Avalon had back in the days, over owning a Baby Jet in late October 2013.  KnC is presumably a month ahead in schedule and while that's yet to be proven, neither is your delivery estimates.  A month of difficulty changes everything these days.  Please keep it Professional.

[klee]

It will all end to Silicon Valley vs Orsoc - place your bets and forget ROI. I bet HF has the backing of funds for selling at a loss for at least the 1 month difference AT BEST regarding to KnC.
Can't anyone notice the bull in the shop? wtf

[HashFast]

We've posted a new update on our blog:
https://hashfast.com/countdown-to-tapeout/

-John

[crumbs]

We've posted a new update on our blog:
https://hashfast.com/countdown-to-tapeout/

-John

That's way awesome, John! Now go post in another thread that you just posted here!1!1!!

[ur0pl]

Hashfast's website says that the Babyjet is "designed" to be overclocked up to 500 gh/s, but they cannot guarantee that it could reach 500 gh/s could they? I simply cannot buy one unless it is for sure that it can reach that speed. If it does not, then it doesn't have a good ROI for me.

Now, I emailed them, and they told me they cannot release information about the potential overclock speed. I call that a crock because it is 5.7k usa cash and I want to know what I am buying if I buy it. They may say they do not need my business, but I represent all these other buyers when I say I want to know the overclock speed.

Now, I also find 100+ gh/s more overclock speed as pretty high amount. If it were 25-50, then it might be more believable to me.

Again, I represent others when I say I want to know the overclock speed

[jspielberg]

My guess is that they won't commit to an OC speed until they have the actually chip in hand and characterized.  I bet their simulations show that 500GH/s is very doable, but simulations and reality are not the same... Just ask bitfury.  He was expecting his chip to run 5GH with 10GH overclock.  Instead he got 2GH with 3GH overclock.

[zedicus]

My guess is that they won't commit to an OC speed until they have the actually chip in hand and characterized.  I bet their simulations show that 500GH/s is very doable, but simulations and reality are not the same... Just ask bitfury.  He was expecting his chip to run 5GH with 10GH overclock.  Instead he got 2GH with 3GH overclock.

Sims show 540!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=262052.msg2976695#msg2976695


& this post


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=262052.msg2976622#msg2976622

[timmmers]

"The results of our mock tapeout are due back any minute now and so far it all looks good." ?

So why not wait an hour, get the results and publish them?

[crumbs]

"The results of our mock tapeout are due back any minute now and so far it all looks good." ?

So why not wait an hour, get the results and publish them?

If you reread the quote, you'll learn that the "results of [the] mock tapeout are due back any minute..."  Mock tapeouts are noteworthy if you're planning to build mock ASICs.  Unlike Mock Turtle Soup, mock ASICs are neither cheap nor real

[HashFast]

HashFast’s Golden Nonce GN ASIC successfully taped-out yesterday, Wednesday the 28th, and has been released for 28nm fabrication to a well-known, leading-edge foundry. https://hashfast.com/tapeout/

More details will follow in next week’s joint press release.

-The HashFast Team

[smoothie]

HashFast’s Golden Nonce GN ASIC successfully taped-out yesterday, Wednesday the 28th, and has been released for 28nm fabrication to a well-known, leading-edge foundry. https://hashfast.com/tapeout/

More details will follow in next week’s joint press release.

-The HashFast Team

Yesterday was Saturday Aug 31st.

[bobsag3]

HashFast’s Golden Nonce GN ASIC successfully taped-out yesterday, Wednesday the 28th, and has been released for 28nm fabrication to a well-known, leading-edge foundry. https://hashfast.com/tapeout/

More details will follow in next week’s joint press release.

-The HashFast Team

Yesterday was Saturday Aug 31st.

Yeah... These are why people have doubts. If you cant even get the post date on a forum correct...

[lumpycustard]

It was clearly copy-pasted from the link, which was posted on the 29th 

[Bogart]

What are the die size, package type, core voltage, transistor count, operating frequency, and projected TDP of the chip?  

[-Redacted-]

And while you're at it, how about telling us the underwear and shoe sizes of each of the corporate officers...

[jspielberg]

What are the die size, package type, core voltage, transistor count, operating frequency, and projected TDP of the chip?  

Hey Bogie -

Looks like Amy from HF answered a couple of these questions:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=270384.msg2975145#msg2975145

Die Size: 18x18mm
TDP: 250W

I don't think the other pieces have been revealed but I imagine they will be required for the independent board program, which also doesn't have a firm date. 

Still not sure how to feel about the independent board program.  It means that they are planning on selling raw chips at some point after they have produced their own miners in unknown quantities.  It starts to remind me of my Avalon experience which isn't one I want to be reminded of or repeated.  Hopefully the MPP whether legal or not will be a benefit to the HF purchasers.

[tacotime]

Looking forward to seeing how quickly the GN chips go through spins.  To give everyone else here a sense of time, Intel's 45 nm Penryn 5500s did their first tape-out and wafer generation in the beginning of January 2007.  The initial chips were able to boot Windows (almost unheard of luck for a first tapeout), but the Q9550 chips had many spins and revisions and were not released until November 2007.  However, TSMC has been making solid progress on 28 nm yield for the past while, and I'd expect it'd be through spins in less than a year since it's no longer a bleeding edge process.