HashFast launches sales of the Baby Jet

[hashcashcow]

damn straight if i had a easy way to make 5 mill off people and get away with it i would do it. you all think karma will pay them back if they screw u. go live in fairytale land. they are the ones laughing thier asses off to the bank while u all sit quietly and shake ur heads.

[Wesly]

well thats worse...if u believe they wont ship and just stole all our money lol. that would suck being that i have one of the top quantity orders.

damn straight if i had a easy way to make 5 mill off people and get away with it i would do it. you all think karma will pay them back if they screw u. go live in fairytale land. they are the ones laughing thier asses off to the bank while u all sit quietly and shake ur heads.

And you wonder why you are in the predicament you got yourself in now.  GREED!  Now that's karma!  Haha  I am the one who is laughing my ass off your oblivious display of greed and stupidity  

If you have such a great and amazing foresight to see any ASIC company will mine with the customer's machines for months thus delaying delivery, then why are you so dumb to make "top quantity orders"?  And don't give me the BS about how they would have ship at $50/bitcoin exchange rate, because it is just as foolish to buy bitcoin mining machine if you predict Bitcoin is going down in value.  

You are probably too dumb to appreciate the irony of proving karma do exist (on you) while you are trying to write off karma as some fairytale.  haha, thank you for the laugh  

[hashcashcow]

  im glad i made u laugh.
soon you will see exactly what happens and you will join everyone else and cry.
you will attempt lawsuits and fail.
your money will be gone.
and you will at best get a machine that will never pay off.

[hashcashcow]

picture of hashfast warehouse. look at all those machines! yay!

http://glasstire.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/empty-warehouse.jpg


the owner of hashfast caught fleeing the country with all your money.
http://slimminc.webs.com/black-guy-lots-of-money-stacks-bills.jpg

[tacotime]

im glad i made u laugh.
soon you will see exactly what happens and you will join everyone else and cry.
you will attempt lawsuits and fail.
your money will be gone.
and you will at best get a machine that will never pay off.

I bought during the sale, so if it comes at pretty much any time before Dec 1st I'll still ROI. *shrug*

I think HashFast's goal is to get everything out before then so they have no liabilities with the MPP, and get to keep the piles of money that everyone gave them for it (at which point maybe people will start complaining about that).  They sound pretty confident about the "Before Dec 31" for batch one.

[hashcashcow]

you wont roi if you get it by end of year. even if you got it today you might not even roi. we had 1 chance of roi and thats why we bought it. shipping said late october. most the money would be coming in from then till now. and difficulty rate rising  tremendously makes it even less likly to roi.

[tacotime]

you wont roi if you get it by end of year. even if you got it today you might not even roi. we had 1 chance of roi and thats why we bought it. shipping said late october. most the money would be coming in from then till now. and difficulty rate rising  tremendously makes it even less likly to roi.

If I got it today I would definitely ROI, in fact I would hit about a 60% ROI according to http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/

December is iffier and it depends on what kind of rate increases we see and how sustained they are.  The current network growth is not sustainable though (keep in mind we've gone from a 110 nm process to a 28 nm process in 10 months time, and the rise in hash rate reflects this).  The next stopgap half-node is 20 nm, and I don't think any fab is there yet for large scale, high yield production.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/other/display/20131022230815_TSMC_Shares_More_Details_Regarding_16nm_FinFET_and_20nm_Progress.html

Since HashFast is already working with TSMC, I would guess they'll be one of the first companies to produce on 20 nm as die shrinks (if the company survives that long, things are getting cutthroat).

[crumbs]

you wont roi if you get it by end of year. even if you got it today you might not even roi. we had 1 chance of roi and thats why we bought it. shipping said late october. most the money would be coming in from then till now. and difficulty rate rising  tremendously makes it even less likly to roi.

If I got it today I would definitely ROI, in fact I would hit about a 60% ROI according to http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/...

You mean this http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/89f1855c7e 

Shows you losing money.  What did you order & @ what cost?

[DeathAndTaxes]

Since HashFast is already working with TSMC, I would guess they'll be one of the first companies to produce on 20 nm as die shrinks (if the company survives that long, things are getting cutthroat).

There will be no 20nm miner by any vendor for quite a while.   20nm being available =/= 20nm cheaper than 28nm.   20nm will probably be available in volume next year (at 50% to 150% higher prices).  It generally takes 2-3 years before a new process node becomes cheaper than the prior one.  Maybe in late 2016 but 2017 seems more likely.

[Paladin69]

...and I don't think any fab is there yet for large scale, high yield production.

I thought I read that Samsung was getting involved to do just that...

[Syke]

If I got it today I would definitely ROI, in fact I would hit about a 60% ROI according to http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/...

You mean this http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/89f1855c7e 

That's if the miner is already delivered, which it isn't. This is what it looks like next month.

http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/9388e2430d

[RoadStress]

you wont roi if you get it by end of year. even if you got it today you might not even roi. we had 1 chance of roi and thats why we bought it. shipping said late october. most the money would be coming in from then till now. and difficulty rate rising  tremendously makes it even less likly to roi.

If I got it today I would definitely ROI, in fact I would hit about a 60% ROI according to http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/

December is iffier and it depends on what kind of rate increases we see and how sustained they are.  The current network growth is not sustainable though (keep in mind we've gone from a 110 nm process to a 28 nm process in 10 months time, and the rise in hash rate reflects this).  The next stopgap half-node is 20 nm, and I don't think any fab is there yet for large scale, high yield production.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/other/display/20131022230815_TSMC_Shares_More_Details_Regarding_16nm_FinFET_and_20nm_Progress.html

Since HashFast is already working with TSMC, I would guess they'll be one of the first companies to produce on 20 nm as die shrinks (if the company survives that long, things are getting cutthroat).

Please cut the propaganda. Nobody will have access to lower than 28nm technology before 2015-2016 even and it will be damn hell expensive. Also there are many other companies that are already working with TSMC (Avalon, ASICMINER, KnC etc) so i don't understand why you praise HF so much. If they can get it then everyone will get it.

[tacotime]

you wont roi if you get it by end of year. even if you got it today you might not even roi. we had 1 chance of roi and thats why we bought it. shipping said late october. most the money would be coming in from then till now. and difficulty rate rising  tremendously makes it even less likly to roi.

If I got it today I would definitely ROI, in fact I would hit about a 60% ROI according to http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/...

You mean this http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/89f1855c7e 

Shows you losing money.  What did you order & @ what cost?

Babyjets on sale for $2200-ish with no MPP

[DeathAndTaxes]

...and I don't think any fab is there yet for large scale, high yield production.

I thought I read that Samsung was getting involved to do just that...

Getting involved and already cranking out millions of wafers a year are two different things.  In time everything (even cheap garbage like USB controllers) will be 20nm but it is going to be a while.  The first mass production customers will be customers that value power usage over cost.   For example a cellphone CPU might be $15.  Paying $22 or $30 (on a $400 device) and getting 30% lower power consumption is worth it.

Nobody is going to buy an 20nm ASIC which costs 50% to 100% more than a 28nm ASIC.  It generally takes 3 years before a process nodes acheives cost parity with the prior node.   Those expecting 20nm tomorrow are in for a lllllllllllllllllllloooooooooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggg ggggggg wait.

Note the image is from NVidia conference.  NVidia who does runs in the hundreds of thousands of wafers (millions of units) hasn't commited to 20nm/22nm in 2014 because of cost concerns.  It is highly likely both AMD & NVidia will extend 28nm for yet another product cycle to bridge the gap to at least 2015.



http://www.extremetech.com/computing/123529-nvidia-deeply-unhappy-with-tsmc-claims-22nm-essentially-worthless

[tacotime]

you wont roi if you get it by end of year. even if you got it today you might not even roi. we had 1 chance of roi and thats why we bought it. shipping said late october. most the money would be coming in from then till now. and difficulty rate rising  tremendously makes it even less likly to roi.

If I got it today I would definitely ROI, in fact I would hit about a 60% ROI according to http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/

December is iffier and it depends on what kind of rate increases we see and how sustained they are.  The current network growth is not sustainable though (keep in mind we've gone from a 110 nm process to a 28 nm process in 10 months time, and the rise in hash rate reflects this).  The next stopgap half-node is 20 nm, and I don't think any fab is there yet for large scale, high yield production.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/other/display/20131022230815_TSMC_Shares_More_Details_Regarding_16nm_FinFET_and_20nm_Progress.html

Since HashFast is already working with TSMC, I would guess they'll be one of the first companies to produce on 20 nm as die shrinks (if the company survives that long, things are getting cutthroat).

Please cut the propaganda. Nobody will have access to lower than 28nm technology before 2015-2016 even and it will be damn hell expensive. Also there are many other companies that are already working with TSMC (Avalon, ASICMINER, KnC etc) so i don't understand why you praise HF so much. If they can get it then everyone will get it.

Okay

Next year TSMC will make over thirty designs using 20nm process technology, which it calls CLN20SOC with HKMG. Moreover, since there will be multiple fabs producing chips using 20nm fabrication process at TSMC, the ramp curve of every design as well as revenue share of 20nm technology will be faster compared to those of 28nm process.

“Specifically on 20nm we have received five product tape-outs and scheduled more than 30 tape-outs in this year and next year from mobile computing, CPU and PLD [programmable logic device] segments. And all those tape-outs represent big volumes. Design ecosystem on 20nm has been validated in real products and is ready to support customers. Yield learning is in line or better than the 28nm path. We expect a fast ramp of 20nm next year, with revenue from 20nm in 2014 bigger than that of 28nm in 2012. You see 20nm will be starting next year whereas 28nm actually started in the fourth quarter – third, fourth quarter of 2011. So the corresponding point for 28nm was 2012. But our ramp in 20nm in 2014 is going to be faster than the ramp for 28nm in 2012. While our 28nm ramp was a record for TSMC, 20nm ramp will be even faster by about 30%,” said Mr. Chang.

DnT claims much longer, which is good because it means your products will be profitable for longer, wherever they came from.

[Puppet]

There will be no 20nm miner by any vendor for quite a while.   20nm being available =/= 20nm cheaper than 28nm.   20nm will probably be available in volume next year (at 50% to 150% higher prices).  It generally takes 2-3 years before a new process node becomes cheaper than the prior one.  Maybe in late 2016 but 2017 seems more likely.

And by 2016/2017 the mining market will be saturated and with razor thin margins, so it would be very hard for any vendor to recover the NRE. Unless they could achieve a rather dramatic improvement in GH/W, it doesnt make sense to even start. I dont think we will ever see 20nm bitcoin asics. Maybe 14nm at some point in the very far future.

[Syke]

Babyjets on sale for $2200-ish with no MPP

Second batch baby jets? Yeah, you're not going to see that delivered any time soon. Say goodbye to ROI.

[Syke]

There will be no 20nm miner by any vendor for quite a while.   20nm being available =/= 20nm cheaper than 28nm.   20nm will probably be available in volume next year (at 50% to 150% higher prices).  It generally takes 2-3 years before a new process node becomes cheaper than the prior one.  Maybe in late 2016 but 2017 seems more likely.

And by 2016/2017 the mining market will be saturated and with razor thin margins, so it would be very hard for any vendor to recover the NRE. Unless they could achieve a rather dramatic improvement in GH/W, it doesnt make sense to even start. I dont think we will ever see 20nm bitcoin asics. Maybe 14nm at some point in the very far future.

Feature size is starting to get muddy. 20nm and 14nm miners might not have the speed and power improvements we've come to expect from node improvements.

http://spectrum.ieee.org/semiconductors/devices/the-status-of-moores-law-its-complicated

Well designed 28nm chips are going to be the best available for a very long time.

[DeathAndTaxes]

There will be no 20nm miner by any vendor for quite a while.   20nm being available =/= 20nm cheaper than 28nm.   20nm will probably be available in volume next year (at 50% to 150% higher prices).  It generally takes 2-3 years before a new process node becomes cheaper than the prior one.  Maybe in late 2016 but 2017 seems more likely.

And by 2016/2017 the mining market will be saturated and with razor thin margins, so it would be very hard for any vendor to recover the NRE. Unless they could achieve a rather dramatic improvement in GH/W, it doesnt make sense to even start. I dont think we will ever see 20nm bitcoin asics. Maybe 14nm at some point in the very far future.

It is unlikely a process node will be skipped.  Fast forward ahead 3,4, x years 20nm will now be mainstream production with reasonable costs and 14nm will be the cutting edge insane NRE and ultra high wafer costs.  Essentially the roles 28nm and 20nm are now.  Still I agree even 2016 is dubiously optimistic and those thinking it will happen next year are just delusional. 

It is getting harder and harder for foundries to maintain Moores law.  Each generation the fabs cost most, there are more delays, the cost benefits get smaller, and it takes longer to just reach cost parity with the prior generation.   It is all symptoms of silicon lithography running out of steam.   

[RoadStress]

It is unlikely a process node will be skipped.  Fast forward ahead 3,4, x years 20nm will now be mainstream production with reasonable costs and 14nm will be the cutting edge insane NRE and ultra high wafer costs.  Essentially the roles 28nm and 20nm are now.  Still I agree even 2016 is dubiously optimistic and those thinking it will happen next year are just delusional. 

It is getting harder and harder for foundries to maintain Moores law.  Each generation the fabs cost most, there are more delays, the cost benefits get smaller, and it takes longer to just reach cost parity with the prior generation.   It is all symptoms of silicon lithography running out of steam.   

Where are we heading after silicon? Graphene?