Time to sue ButterflyLabs - Big Single-SC owner let's league for class action

[augustocroppo]

When is the Jalapeno getting FCC approval?

I'm surprised that BFL didn't get better efficiency than they did. Just going from 90nm to 65nm should double efficiency, right? Then where's the additional advantage of using the full custom approach? I'm comparing with the current power estimate of the bASIC.

If you think the 54 GH/s ASIC is going to pull only 100w, I have a bridge to sell in Brooklyn as well.  The 27 GH/s units might be around 100w, though.

That bridge is still available for sale?



http://bitcoinmagazine.com/2686/bfl-confirms-65nm-process-for-sc-lineup/

BFL Confirms 65nm Process for SC Lineup
by JUSTIN PORTER on NOVEMBER 6, 2012

Aiming for longevity and efficiency of their products, Butterfly Labs (BFL) has confirmed their new SC chips will be using a 65nm process, the same transistor size as was used for Intel’s wildly successful Core 2 Duo and Core 2 Quad processors. As BFL’s main competitors, Avalon and bASIC, are reportedly built on 110nm and 90nm processes respectively, BFL should be able to hold the position of market leader in mining efficiency for some time to come.

BFL’s soon-to-be-released SC product lineup includes the Jalapeno ($149 for 4.5GH/s), the Little Single SC ($649 for 30GH/s), the Single SC ($1,299 for 60GH/s), and the Mini Rig SC ($29,999 for 1,500GH/s). All of these products will utilize BFL’s full custom ASIC 65nm chips, expected to run at 1 watt per GH.

Josh Zerlan, a BFL representative, expects to have chips in hand by the end of November and begin initial shipments shortly after. The number of units to be shipped in the first batch has not yet been determined. Josh also released new photos of the heat sinks for our viewing pleasure.

[1715577210]

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[1715577210]

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[Phinnaeus Gage]

Said the guy that I just proved to, showing that Josh/BFL lies.

Oh?  Care to provide a single shred of proof that I've lied?  There's not a single person here that's been able to back up this claim, yet I've demonstrated it through your own posts multiple times that you're a liar.

Here's just one single shred of proof, you lyin' cocksucker!

Josh Zerlan, a BFL representative, expects to have chips in hand by the end of November and begin initial shipments shortly after.

Ergo, it was utterly impossible for you to make the following claim, let alone that to this day the FCC has no record of BF Labs Inc.'s existence.

When is the Jalapeno getting FCC approval?

Maybe two weeks? We are waiting for the test lab to issue the test report.

With the bump in power requirements on the MR and the new screen, we had to make changes, although the new screen is already certified.  We are doing all the devices at once, since they all share the same board.

Please note the date of this post by Josh Zerlan, COO, of Butterfly Labs--Nov. 3, 2012. He is clearly implying that at least some devices were submitted in October, 2012. But the FCC is not going to test ANY piece of equipment that's not complete because it would be impossible to get ANY results if the circuit is not complete, in this case there would have been no chips in place.

Now, Joshy Boy, would you be so kind as to point out why this shred of evidence doesn't satisfy your request to prove you've lied?

[ajk]

Its really only going to be a matter of time before Josh Zerlan ends up being another Trendon Shavers,

I dont get how these people think but its obvious that they think they arent going to jail at some point. Fact of the matter is that if your stealing (which is pretty obvious that you are) your going to jail especially on this grand of scale whether it be today, tomorrow or 5 years from now, you work for a known criminal and yet you still back him/the company up,

you should do yourself a favor and quit before its to late and you end up behind bars where you will be really thinking "Why the fuck did I do this".

also no one is going to feel bad when this day comes along other than your mom and dad, everyone else is going to be extremely happy that someone deserving to be behind bars finally is.

[bcp19]

There were 97 Avalon chip batches of 10,000 chips each that was posted in a spreadsheet. That is roughly 300TH. The official story is:
While we have send out some chip orders, there is currently ~200k chips stuck in custom right at this moment for about 2 weeks now, this matter is very painful for us and our customers.
That is only 22% of their chip orderbook. They were still shipping out chip orders as of 8/19. Orders destined for addresses inside China would not require customs, so those chips have had 1.5 months to get onto boards and into the hash rate.

All animosity aside, do you have a link to this spreadsheet?  I've not been able to find it from my searches.

[erschiessen]

Of the 4 mini-rigs to ship, how many have screens?
How come the only thing with FCC approval on BFL gear is a sub-assembly, off the shelf gadget that supposedly is being used as an interface with the rest of the device!?!?!

[Jaymax]

This I will not stand for!

MADNESS!

... AND I WILL give effect to my lack of standingforness by using 70 point red text, with an exclamation mark no less, and in bold, because I can do that from my keyboard, where I am very much totally not STANDING...

[Jaymax]

Josh makes mistakes. When he gets angry or has to post a lot, he makes mistakes. That is why most of his posts contain little more than insults. If they contained actual content then it might contradict something he said earlier.

Josh is trolling, and y'all can't see it 'cos y'all noobs. 

... and bury any actual information about the lawsuit.

actual information about an actual lawsuit - in this thread - you so funny!

[Jaymax]

I just thought of something, K9. That motherfuckin' Josh was awfly quiet prior to BFL started taking orders for their Monarch. But, as soon as BFL's coffer was once again filled with $7M+ USD, he returns here worse than he was before.

Or, perhaps they didn't sell that many, but got lots of late-single-orderers switching over - so maybe not so much new revenue?

It wouldn't surprise me the least if somebody truly does try to stick a broomstick up his ass.

But it would, for some bizarre reason perhaps you could explain, be utterly incredible if someone tries to stick a lawyer up his arse. 

[bcp19]

Who wants me to post BCP19's isp address and information?

He has taken it upon himself to post libelous accusations about me on BFL forums. I am silenced on the forum so I cannot defend myself and since BCP19 took it upon himself to be malicious, I took it upon myself to acquire said information since the thread that I am a pedophile is still on the forum.  

Feel Free

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=146678 <--- DrJoe Sock Puppet.

You are the smart guy that fell for it.

Again, thanks for the admission of guilt.

Again I completely admit it.

All I have to do is power down my modem, hold the reset button for like 30 seconds, power back up and poof, you got nothing.  Enjoy though!

If you said he is a pedophile it won't be a problem for the police to find you asking you isp ....

Go right ahead

Remove the post and all is well. Since Josh will not remove it.

First, quoted for proof of stalking AND blackmail.

Second:

Final warning
« Sent to: bcp19 on: Today at 10:01:59 PM »
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The next time you imply that I am a pedophile, I will be filing suit against you for Libel. I have collected all pertinent information of your malicious attacks and have contacted your ISP provider to release your Name as I already have a host of information already including your address. This might be some childish way for you to pass time but making accusations of this nature does not pass muster with me.

Regards.
 

Calling your bluff.  I have you on blackmail and you dislike how I described your actions.  YOU called me a child and then invited me to your house.  Suspicions actions, then you stalk me and get my information.  You are obviously a danger to me and society, and I will report this as soon as you take your 'action'.

Have a nice day.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

This I will not stand for!

MADNESS!

... AND I WILL give effect to my lack of standingforness by using 70 point red text, with an exclamation mark no less, and in bold, because I can do that from my keyboard, where I am very much totally not STANDING...

[YipYip]

PG, I knew you would lie and back out of your commit yet (again).  Once again, you've shown yourself to be a thief and a liar.  You asked for a link to the screen FCC documents, I sent you that.  That's what you asked for. 

Too bad we don't give scammer tags anymore.  You are worse than Matthew, as you've now verifably and without question commited twice to sending $200 if I provided information you requested.  I have now done that twice and you are refusing to pay up. 

Now you owe me $200 and you owe a charity of my choice $200.  Not that you'll ever honor your word and commitment, but what can you expect from someone who can't tell the truth and steals from charities?

Pathetic.

FCC cert
FTC refunds
Monarch was an outright FRAUD  2 months delay in 24 hours

[cryptograd]

Right on cue, in come the trolls to wreck a good thread!

Here's an indisputable fact that is going to turn your entire world-view upside down.

We're not the trolls in this thread.

You are.

+1

he trolled the fuck out of tens of thousands of Bitcoin enthusiasts and still continues to do so

[mah87]

PG, I knew you would lie and back out of your commit yet (again).  Once again, you've shown yourself to be a thief and a liar.  You asked for a link to the screen FCC documents, I sent you that.  That's what you asked for. 

Too bad we don't give scammer tags anymore.  You are worse than Matthew, as you've now verifably and without question commited twice to sending $200 if I provided information you requested.  I have now done that twice and you are refusing to pay up. 

Now you owe me $200 and you owe a charity of my choice $200.  Not that you'll ever honor your word and commitment, but what can you expect from someone who can't tell the truth and steals from charities?

Pathetic.

FCC cert
FTC refunds
Monarch was an outright FRAUD  2 months delay in 24 hours

An it's just the beginning...

[PuertoLibre]

Who wants me to post BCP19's isp address and information?

He has taken it upon himself to post libelous accusations about me on BFL forums. I am silenced on the forum so I cannot defend myself and since BCP19 took it upon himself to be malicious, I took it upon myself to acquire said information since the thread that I am a pedophile is still on the forum.  

Feel Free

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=146678 <--- DrJoe Sock Puppet.

You are the smart guy that fell for it.

Again, thanks for the admission of guilt.

Again I completely admit it.

All I have to do is power down my modem, hold the reset button for like 30 seconds, power back up and poof, you got nothing.  Enjoy though!

If you said he is a pedophile it won't be a problem for the police to find you asking you isp ....

Go right ahead

Remove the post and all is well. Since Josh will not remove it.

First, quoted for proof of stalking AND blackmail.

Second:

Final warning
« Sent to: bcp19 on: Today at 10:01:59 PM »
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The next time you imply that I am a pedophile, I will be filing suit against you for Libel. I have collected all pertinent information of your malicious attacks and have contacted your ISP provider to release your Name as I already have a host of information already including your address. This might be some childish way for you to pass time but making accusations of this nature does not pass muster with me.

Regards.
 

Calling your bluff.  I have you on blackmail and you dislike how I described your actions.  YOU called me a child and then invited me to your house.  Suspicions actions, then you stalk me and get my information.  You are obviously a danger to me and society, and I will report this as soon as you take your 'action'.

Have a nice day.

Watch out, you really can have an ISP pull the plug on your account.

[Buffer Overflow]

Its really only going to be a matter of time before Josh Zerlan ends up being another Trendon Shavers.

Funny, I was just thinking exactly the same thing. 

[lucasjkr]

This thread is seriously amusing.

Everyone's up in arms about FCC certs? Is that because every other accusation they've come up with has fallen by the wayside? OK so the things aren't certified. Are ASICMiner's USB Block Erupters? Or their blades? Avalons?

No one can prove damages, because if they got their order 6 or 9 months ago, then the spike that we've seen in network difficulty in the last two months would have just occured back then instead. And then, no one can establish what the price would have been back then with the difficulty being that high. Probably would have disuaded a LOT of people from joining into the fray when the cost of entry wasn't a few hundred for a graphics card but instead several thousand for an ASIC setup that will be a doorstop or paperweight in a few months time...

No lawyer will represent a class action lawsuit for this, because the class is so small, the money spent is tiny (in terms of class actions), and BFL's cash reserves aren't equal to what they took in (they did pay for production after all... and salaries... rents... utilities...).

To ask an attorney "well, there's 200 of us, we spent $5,000 each on average, the company took in $10mm in total sales, probably spent $9.5mm of that on sales, production and overhead, so there's a $500,000 pot at the end of the rainbow, which will rapidly be diminished if they go to court, oh, and we can't pay you anything out of our pockets, so you have to do this on contingency."

Probably won't get many people too eager to chomp on that. Ok, take away the contingency. Everyone can pay up front. Do you really think it's worth spending thousands and thousands of dollars, being tied up in courts for possibly a year or three, all to chase down a fraction of what you put in? We're all in this game for the money, after all. Wouldn't the more prudent use of those funds be in investing them in additional mining equipment instead of making lawyers rich?

OK, we get passed all that. The lawyer agrees and then starts asking questions.

To which the attorney might ask "so, when did you order? October? And they were offering refunds no questions asked up until May or June? And despite all their missed targets, you never once requested a refund during the first 8 months that your order was outstanding? Only started demanding one after they had given notice that they wouldn't be providing refunds any longer? And at any point during these proceedings you'll likely have received your device, at which point it makes it even more difficult to attempt to prove damages?"

[Syke]

Only started demanding one after they had given notice that they wouldn't be providing refunds any longer?

Can you quote such a notice or are you just imagining them sending such a notice?

[DeathAndTaxes]

To which the attorney might ask "so, when did you order? October? And they were offering refunds no questions asked up until May or June? And despite all their missed targets, you never once requested a refund during the first 8 months that your order was outstanding? Only started demanding one after they had given notice that they wouldn't be providing refunds any longer?

None of that is relevant and no competent attorney would even allow that line of questioning to happen.  No sale has occurred because BFL has not delivered.  By the UCC they have no legal standing to refuse a refund on a contract they have failed to fulfill.   All "sales are final" is certainly legal but it requires a sale.

A "sale" consists in the passing of title from the seller to the buyer for a price (Section 2-401).

http://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/2/2-106

For all orders which haven't shipped not sale has occurred.  It doesn't even really matter if BFL is in breach although their numerous false statements would make it likely the court would find them so.  It doesn't matter if BFL made those statements in good faith.  One can act in good faith and still be in breech of a contract.  Still the entire issue of a breach is moot as it relates to a refund as there is no "sale" only a "sale contract" and a sale contract can be ended by either party by termination even in the absence of a breech.  

The fact that it would have been smart for customers to cancel before BFL violated contract law and prohibited that isn't really a defense.  It is stupid.  BFL has no defense but that doesn't mean a lawsuit is a smart idea.  In fact a lawsuit is a pretty stupid idea.  It will be expensive, time consuming and at best the plaintiffs could hope is to financially hurt BFL while not losing too much MORE money ("it will cost you more than it will cost me").  BFL could certainly (using the plaintiffs own money) drag it out so long that it won't see the inside of courtroom until late 2014.

Still there won't be a lawsuit.  Anyone who hasn't already contacted the FTC or Attorney General isn't going to file a lawsuit.  Filing a complaint with FTC or Attorney General costs exactly $0.00 and takes a few minutes.  If someone hasn't done that they aren't going to spends tens of thousands of dollars and take months for a lawsuit regardless of what they say on a forum.

[lucasjkr]

Your attorney would certainly ask you those questions by way of gathering background and knowing what issues to steer away from. And their defense would certainly raise those points.

For damaged, people would be claiming their list funds as damages. So that's easy to solve prior to appearing in court, but after the plaintiffs attorney had already collected some fees. Or people could take the more aggressive route and try to claim their perceived "lost" coins as damages, at which point there would be argument after argument as to what the state of bitcoin prices might have been had they shipped their units sooner. Which ultimately would only go to lining the lawyers pockets.

But yes, ultimately I'd be shocked if anyone from this thread actually filed a suit. It's still been an amusing read, though...

[Trupik]

Your attorney would certainly ask you those questions by way of gathering background and knowing what issues to steer away from. And their defense would certainly raise those points.

For damaged, people would be claiming their list funds as damages. So that's easy to solve prior to appearing in court, but after the plaintiffs attorney had already collected some fees. Or people could take the more aggressive route and try to claim their perceived "lost" coins as damages, at which point there would be argument after argument as to what the state of bitcoin prices might have been had they shipped their units sooner. Which ultimately would only go to lining the lawyers pockets.

But yes, ultimately I'd be shocked if anyone from this thread actually filed a suit. It's still been an amusing read, though...

I've found dozens of lawyers and law firms in Kansas City alone. Fellow users on this forum has already PM'd me with contacts for their lawyers with proven track record. Currently I'm formulating the initial query to selected few of them. I want to keep my case simple and straightforward, so I will sue only for the refund and for the costs of my legal defense. No lost mining revenue questionable stuff. Stick to the facts:

1. your honor, here is an pre-order (insert date and proof here)
2. here is a payment (insert date and proof here)
3. months passed by, there is no shipment
4. here is a refund request (insert date and proof here)
5. here is a reply denying the refund request (insert date and proof here)
6. here is this law, that requires seller to issue a refund on request (insert the reference here)
7. here is the costs of legal defense (final amount will be provided after the trial has ended)
8. GIVE ME MY MONEY BACK BFL
9. here is the Power of Attorney from this Trupik gentleman from Europe (insert document here)