Do we want to continue to allow various vendor hate in here?

[ordy]

The forum is overrun with the hate of the day with various "hardware"(/vaporware) vendors, it has become hard to discuss anything else. Many of the participants are behaving like animals.

I'm sensitive to the risk of suppressing complaints. There have been many scam hardware "vendors" of various degrees. People should be able to communicate about the risks, seek recourse, etc.   At the same time, these complaints have reached an intensity where they are self defeating.  If you tell me vendor X is a scam I don't know if its because they are or because you're crazy, because you're a shill for another vendor, because you're a shill for them trying to make the complainers look crazy, if you're a miner trying to scare people out of mining, etc.  As a warning this information is no longer very helpful.

I have multiple people I know (and have met in person and know not to be socks) begging me to do something about the sad state of this subforum.  But I'm at a loss... how do we defeat troll culture when it's taking the form of "concern troll" about concerns we should be careful to preserve? And how can we do it without making me and miningbuddy censors who have to vet every single post?

Does anyone have any great ideas?

so long as vendors' words and actions continue to incite, there will be justifiable 'hate' relayed in this sub-forum.  one option i see is 3 sections - one for vendors that are delivering at or close to advertised expectations, those that are delivering product but poorly, and those that are still purely vaporware.  at least then there will be 1 section without the 'hate'.  but i suppose the downside is that BFL will tarnish 2 of them since they would have 1 product line in the 'poor' category and 1 in 'vaporware'. so be it i guess......

[frankenmint]

Actually the real problem is that people turn many threads into a pointless wastes of time ... and then keep posting the same thing over and over for months ... like some mind numbingly stupid belief that no one knows or understands that a certain company is completely unable to deliver hardware on time Only they can see this and thus they must post this same information a hundred times in each thread ... and make themselves look like some sort of psychotic stalker ... and then start posting falsehoods since they themselves have realised there's no point posting the same thing over and over again ... so why not make something up ...

Bottom line, I see no real problem with posting negative stuff about companies, however, there are a small number of accounts on bitcointalk that if they were deleted, that would get rid of most of the "OMG I gotta post it again today coz no body knows what I know and I must educate all these fools who read this forum ... who didn't read it yesterday" crap these threads are full of.

wow I couldn't agree more with this one

[PuertoLibre]

Actually the real problem is that people turn many threads into a pointless wastes of time ... and then keep posting the same thing over and over for months ... like some mind numbingly stupid belief that no one knows or understands that a certain company is completely unable to deliver hardware on time Only they can see this and thus they must post this same information a hundred times in each thread ... and make themselves look like some sort of psychotic stalker ... and then start posting falsehoods since they themselves have realised there's no point posting the same thing over and over again ... so why not make something up ...

Bottom line, I see no real problem with posting negative stuff about companies, however, there are a small number of accounts on bitcointalk that if they were deleted, that would get rid of most of the "OMG I gotta post it again today coz no body knows what I know and I must educate all these fools who read this forum ... who didn't read it yesterday" crap these threads are full of.

wow I couldn't agree more with this one

This is proven by the fact that there are noobs (plenty of them) who don't know any better and pop into the forum wondering "what is going on here?!"

In effect, disproving Kano's vision of reality. (Go to BFL forums for a perfect example; they tend to import alot of BitCoinTalk talking points over there...slow but steady.)

[Yogafan00000]

Moderate nothing.  Let the ignore button do it's job.

Make a new sub-forum for each of the major manufacturers and 1 more for any new entrants to the bitcoin mining marketspace.  They can be promoted to their own new sub-forum if they make it bigger and appear not to be a scam.

[creativex]

Moderate nothing.  Let the ignore button do it's job.

Make a new sub-forum for each of the major manufacturers and 1 more for any new entrants to the bitcoin mining marketspace.  They can be promoted to their own new sub-forum if they make it bigger and appear not to be a scam.

+1.

The vast majority of really angry posts I see are directed at one company in particular and are totally justifiable IMO. Forum administration has continued to accept advertising revenue from this particular company despite the painfully obvious fraud being committed. Simply stifling the understandably angry dissenters is akin to engaging in the fraud yourselves. I'd urge bitcointalk.org admins to either continue to maintain a very light handed approach to post moderation, but if you insist on stifling free speech, then, at the very least discontinue accepting ad revenue from companies that are plainly engaging in fraudulent activities.

[k9quaint]

Actually the real problem is that people turn many threads into a pointless wastes of time ... and then keep posting the same thing over and over for months ... like some mind numbingly stupid belief that no one knows or understands that a certain company is completely unable to deliver hardware on time Only they can see this and thus they must post this same information a hundred times in each thread ... and make themselves look like some sort of psychotic stalker ... and then start posting falsehoods since they themselves have realised there's no point posting the same thing over and over again ... so why not make something up ...

Bottom line, I see no real problem with posting negative stuff about companies, however, there are a small number of accounts on bitcointalk that if they were deleted, that would get rid of most of the "OMG I gotta post it again today coz no body knows what I know and I must educate all these fools who read this forum ... who didn't read it yesterday" crap these threads are full of.

wow I couldn't agree more with this one

This is proven by the fact that there are noobs (plenty of them) who don't know any better and pop into the forum wondering "what is going on here?!"

In effect, disproving Kano's vision of reality. (Go to BFL forums for a perfect example; they tend to import alot of BitCoinTalk talking points over there...slow but steady.)

I am sure affiliates of certain companies would rather the noobs be informed by the ads displayed, rather than by people who have been through mybitcoin.com, pirateat40, mooncoin, Zhou Tong, and others. Every day, somebody posts on the forums "I ordered, but I can't get a refund". This is untrue, but there is a convoluted process for obtaining one. The same questions being asked over and over can be addressed by sticky threads.

Making a specific forum for vaporware product announcements (no working prototype verified by a trusted third party) would cut out 90% of the nonsense. Or just put all those threads in Mining Speculation. Also, for people who complain about content from a "small group of users" should be introduced to the IGNORE button. Press it 5 times and the forums are magically cleaned up! 

[ordy]

Moderate nothing.  Let the ignore button do it's job.

Make a new sub-forum for each of the major manufacturers and 1 more for any new entrants to the bitcoin mining marketspace.  They can be promoted to their own new sub-forum if they make it bigger and appear not to be a scam.

+1.

The vast majority of really angry posts I see are directed at one company in particular and are totally justifiable IMO. Forum administration has continued to accept advertising revenue from this particular company despite the painfully obvious fraud being committed. Simply stifling the understandably angry dissenters is akin to engaging in the fraud yourselves. I'd urge bitcointalk.org admins to either continue to maintain a very light handed approach to post moderation, but if you insist on stifling free speech, then, at the very least discontinue accepting ad revenue from companies that are plainly engaging in fraudulent activities.

+2

[ProfMac]

Moderate nothing.  Let the ignore button do it's job.

Make a new sub-forum for each of the major manufacturers and 1 more for any new entrants to the bitcoin mining marketspace.  They can be promoted to their own new sub-forum if they make it bigger and appear not to be a scam.

+1.

The vast majority of really angry posts I see are directed at one company in particular and are totally justifiable IMO. Forum administration has continued to accept advertising revenue from this particular company despite the painfully obvious fraud being committed. Simply stifling the understandably angry dissenters is akin to engaging in the fraud yourselves. I'd urge bitcointalk.org admins to either continue to maintain a very light handed approach to post moderation, but if you insist on stifling free speech, then, at the very least discontinue accepting ad revenue from companies that are plainly engaging in fraudulent activities.

I think the issue is not posts about delay or fraud.  The issue is about posts that have crossed the line, especially when they are spammed, or involve threats, or grossly (sexually) insulting.
Spam includes those  people who believe that sending the same message 50 or 100 times will somehow improve life for anyone, anywhere.

[Rival]

I think just a basic minimal amount of moderation would solve 99% of the problems.

#1) Posting anyone anywhere's contact information = ACCOUNT BAN

#2) Accusing anyone anywhere of criminal activity = ACCOUNT BAN

#3) Threatening anyone anywhere with violence = ACCOUNT BAN

#4) Multiple accounts = ACCOUNT BAN

I mean, lets be serious. These are basic forum rules pretty much anywhere. How hard can it be? If you can't abide some basic rules of civilization you can always start a blog somewhere and say whatever you like. Some people actually come here for useful information, not endless repeated diatribes of half-truths and accusations that really help no one. We get it. You are upset. But this forum was not designed for therapy, at least I don't think it was.

[cedivad]

Does anyone have any great ideas?

People lost tons of money in favor of the few chip makers and you blame us for complaining, instead of doing something to make people not to lose money when they first appreciate the bitcoin mining idea?

Please, review your stand.

[Rival]

Does anyone have any great ideas?

People lost tons of money in favor of the few chip makers and you blame us for complaining, instead of doing something to make people not to lose money when they first appreciate the bitcoin mining idea?

Please, review your stand.

Maybe you should complain somewhere else.

I don't recall the sub forum being called "Complaints about asic companies and feel free to shout down anyone else who is not complaining", although it might be a good idea to create one so we can build a fence around the complainers.

[PuertoLibre]

Does anyone have any great ideas?

People lost tons of money in favor of the few chip makers and you blame us for complaining, instead of doing something to make people not to lose money when they first appreciate the bitcoin mining idea?

Please, review your stand.

Maybe you should complain somewhere else.

I don't recall the sub forum being called "Complaints about asic companies and feel free to shout down anyone else who is not complaining", although it might be a good idea to create one so we can build a fence around the complainers.

While those outside the fence write love poems to the Asic manufacturers, I take it?

[Rival]

Does anyone have any great ideas?

People lost tons of money in favor of the few chip makers and you blame us for complaining, instead of doing something to make people not to lose money when they first appreciate the bitcoin mining idea?

Please, review your stand.

Maybe you should complain somewhere else.

I don't recall the sub forum being called "Complaints about asic companies and feel free to shout down anyone else who is not complaining", although it might be a good idea to create one so we can build a fence around the complainers.

While those outside the fence write love poems to the Asic manufacturers, I take it?

Occasionally there is good news worth discussing. Would be nice to be able to find it without sorting through cut-and-paste rants and hatred. Is this forum an example of how you want the curious to see the bitcoin community at large? Crying children purple in the face stomping their feet in defiant fits of rage? I would not walk away from bitcoin, I would run.

[cedivad]

Occasionally there is good news worth discussing. Would be nice to be able to find it without sorting through cut-and-paste rants and hatred.

Like the hashrate doubling each month without the customers being responsable for it?
Why don't you just subscribe to the bfl/bASIC/whatever newsletter?

[Rival]

Occasionally there is good news worth discussing. Would be nice to be able to find it without sorting through cut-and-paste rants and hatred.

Like the hashrate doubling each month without the customers being responsable for it?
Why don't you just subscribe to the bfl/bASIC/whatever newsletter?

So, in effect, you believe this forum should be dedicated to bashing companies and providing a venue for everyone to vent bile. Okay, you win. It's all yours now. Enjoy it.

[cedivad]

Occasionally there is good news worth discussing. Would be nice to be able to find it without sorting through cut-and-paste rants and hatred.

Like the hashrate doubling each month without the customers being responsable for it?
Why don't you just subscribe to the bfl/bASIC/whatever newsletter?

So, in effect, you believe this forum should be dedicated to bashing companies and providing a venue for everyone to vent bile. Okay, you win. It's all yours now. Enjoy it.

I'm here from longer than you and i know for sure that almost everyone lost money on mining except:
1) Chip makers
2) Josh
3) Avalon batch 1 (september)

This is why i can't stand to this anymore. Why do we need a forum to discuss how we get stolen, without discussion the people who stole us?

[KWH]

I think just a basic minimal amount of moderation would solve 99% of the problems.

#1) Posting anyone anywhere's contact information = ACCOUNT BAN

#2) Accusing anyone anywhere of criminal activity = ACCOUNT BAN

#3) Threatening anyone anywhere with violence = ACCOUNT BAN

#4) Multiple accounts = ACCOUNT BAN

I mean, lets be serious. These are basic forum rules pretty much anywhere. How hard can it be? If you can't abide some basic rules of civilization you can always start a blog somewhere and say whatever you like. Some people actually come here for useful information, not endless repeated diatribes of half-truths and accusations that really help no one. We get it. You are upset. But this forum was not designed for therapy, at least I don't think it was.

No. Scammers and would be scammers would eat this up like some yummy, sugary snack.

[k9quaint]

I think just a basic minimal amount of moderation would solve 99% of the problems.

#1) Posting anyone anywhere's contact information = ACCOUNT BAN

#2) Accusing anyone anywhere of criminal activity = ACCOUNT BAN

#3) Threatening anyone anywhere with violence = ACCOUNT BAN

#4) Multiple accounts = ACCOUNT BAN

I mean, lets be serious. These are basic forum rules pretty much anywhere. How hard can it be? If you can't abide some basic rules of civilization you can always start a blog somewhere and say whatever you like. Some people actually come here for useful information, not endless repeated diatribes of half-truths and accusations that really help no one. We get it. You are upset. But this forum was not designed for therapy, at least I don't think it was.

No. Scammers and would be scammers would eat this up like some yummy, sugary snack.

Not surprised that he wouldn't want anyone accused of criminal activity.

[erk]

I'm here from longer than you and i know for sure that almost everyone lost money on mining except:
1) Chip makers
2) Josh
3) Avalon batch 1 (september)

This is why i can't stand to this anymore. Why do we need a forum to discuss how we get stolen, without discussion the people who stole us?

I am not ready to say that I lost money. I paid about 56 BTC.  I was one of the last dozen or so in Batch #2 Avalon, and I only started mining on July 9.

What has your post got to do with the topic of this thread? Take it elsewhere please.

[-ck]

Moderate nothing.  Let the ignore button do it's job.

Make a new sub-forum for each of the major manufacturers and 1 more for any new entrants to the bitcoin mining marketspace.  They can be promoted to their own new sub-forum if they make it bigger and appear not to be a scam.

+1.

-1

It's not the forum mods' job to legitimise one manufacturer over another by giving them their own subforum.