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Author Topic: Mycelium Bitcoin Wallet  (Read 586097 times)
sidhujag
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January 15, 2014, 12:18:40 AM
 #321

This wallet has a centralized API that goes against what bitcoin stands for. If a million people were doing some serious business with the wallet and someone wanted tos crew them over they coudl attack the server(s) and poof your wallet doesn't work.

Hence your wallet's fate is always in the hands of a centralized person(s)... and you will always get this what happened in this post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=293472.msg4473315#msg4473315

Mycelium backs up private keys in BIP38 encrypted format. They can be importen into any other wallet, so if the server is screwed, you can switch to something else. I am sure if this ever becomes a legitimate concern, they could set up a few extra servers in different places with a few extra security features.

The claim here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=293472.msg3160266#msg3160266 as to why SPV store's are not good because you can't import arbritraty private keys without redownloading the entire blockchain from the genesis block node is a mute point and doesn't defeat the notion of SPV store being better than this proprietary private API. When someone wants to use the android wallet they simply transfer coins over to it without importing your QT wallet private key. Infact it is dangerous to even dump your private key so to encourage this behaviour is bad anyways.

(moot point)  For my Mycelium usage, I generate a couple of addresses using bitaddress.org, print out a few copies, store them in safes, and them import the private keys with Mycelium. I feel much more confident knowing my private keys are safe on paper, and can be restored into any wallet I use, than just having an encrypted file backed up somewhere where it could possible be stolen and bruteforced. Plus I don't think you can import backups from most other wallets into different wallets. Having access to your private key is, ahem, key.

Agreed that storing in BIP38 format is good because you can transfer your priv key out, however having to do this is a serious flaw in the first place because of the centralized model. I think this is on equal terms with bitcoinj because bitcoinj can be hacked your right just like anything else, there is no exporting keys because it is hidden from the user, and the wallets are non transferable.

So im sure bitcoinj can do the same but thats besides the point which I said before that it is closed source and centralized through an API that we know nothing of.

Still not enough to say that the SPV store is not the correct way to do it, because you don't have to download from genesis block. You would download from last checkpoint, or somethign smarter in the future by maybe the last block of the first transaction of the wallet which MUST be after the earliest original checkpoint.

Infact if I chose open source I would implement SPV and allow private key import/export just liket his one, and then add the feature I just talked about so that the user only has to download as much as the block chain to satisfy the transactions in their wallet. If you do a use-case analysis you would see that most of the users would never have to worry about the larger downloads... most will only do it once and only have to deal with a small blockchain download of a few weeks.

Instead SPV was ignored and a closed source API was implemented which totally went against decentralization.

Today's last comment and then I am off to bed.
If you import a private key and you wish to know its transaction history then you need to somehow scan the blockchain from the first point in time where it participated in a transaction that hit the block chain. If the private key has no timestamp associated with it (as with cold storage spending) you need to scan it all. If you have a timestamp (you could have that in a backup along with your private key) and you KNOW that it has not been used before that time you can safely only scan from that point in time. However, if that was a year ago then it is not insignificant.


So that is a single use-case, use cold storage spending, backup your wallet, delete the program, install program and import your wallet, scan blockchain.

If you use cold storage this can just be a disclaimer as a drawback to using cold storage as well as other drawbacks like double spending attacks. Most people who use the wallet would download it once and use it with timestamped transactions. If you ever uninstall and installa  new program then you should know that you will have to resync the blockchain from the earliest checkpoint. There is actually nothign wrong with that, I'd take that over relying on a central API keeping track of that for me.

We can make it a bit fancier by introducing a base checkpoint file which is attached to the program on creation, and then package updated checkpoints every few months for new users who start with a fresh wallet. If you are a returning user you would be allowed to revert back to the base checkpoints by saying no I want to rescan entire blockchain. This feature is actually already implemented, but the second checkpoint file is not. THis would allow any user at any time to only have to download a few weeks of blockchain data to sync up.
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Jan (OP)
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January 15, 2014, 12:31:40 AM
 #322

...
Today's last comment and then I am off to bed.
If you import a private key and you wish to know its transaction history then you need to somehow scan the blockchain from the first point in time where it participated in a transaction that hit the block chain. If the private key has no timestamp associated with it (as with cold storage spending) you need to scan it all. If you have a timestamp (you could have that in a backup along with your private key) and you KNOW that it has not been used before that time you can safely only scan from that point in time. However, if that was a year ago then it is not insignificant.


So that is a single use-case, use cold storage spending, backup your wallet, delete the program, install program and import your wallet, scan blockchain.

If you use cold storage this can just be a disclaimer as a drawback to using cold storage as well as other drawbacks like double spending attacks. Most people who use the wallet would download it once and use it with timestamped transactions. If you ever uninstall and installa  new program then you should know that you will have to resync the blockchain from the earliest checkpoint. There is actually nothign wrong with that, I'd take that over relying on a central API keeping track of that for me.

We can make it a bit fancier by introducing a base checkpoint file which is attached to the program on creation, and then package updated checkpoints every few months for new users who start with a fresh wallet. If you are a returning user you would be allowed to revert back to the base checkpoints by saying no I want to rescan entire blockchain. This feature is actually already implemented, but the second checkpoint file is not. THis would allow any user at any time to only have to download a few weeks of blockchain data to sync up.
Eh? I didn't get it. I think you are better off developing your own wallet.

Mycelium let's you hold your private keys private.
sidhujag
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January 15, 2014, 02:50:37 AM
 #323

...
Today's last comment and then I am off to bed.
If you import a private key and you wish to know its transaction history then you need to somehow scan the blockchain from the first point in time where it participated in a transaction that hit the block chain. If the private key has no timestamp associated with it (as with cold storage spending) you need to scan it all. If you have a timestamp (you could have that in a backup along with your private key) and you KNOW that it has not been used before that time you can safely only scan from that point in time. However, if that was a year ago then it is not insignificant.


So that is a single use-case, use cold storage spending, backup your wallet, delete the program, install program and import your wallet, scan blockchain.

If you use cold storage this can just be a disclaimer as a drawback to using cold storage as well as other drawbacks like double spending attacks. Most people who use the wallet would download it once and use it with timestamped transactions. If you ever uninstall and installa  new program then you should know that you will have to resync the blockchain from the earliest checkpoint. There is actually nothign wrong with that, I'd take that over relying on a central API keeping track of that for me.

We can make it a bit fancier by introducing a base checkpoint file which is attached to the program on creation, and then package updated checkpoints every few months for new users who start with a fresh wallet. If you are a returning user you would be allowed to revert back to the base checkpoints by saying no I want to rescan entire blockchain. This feature is actually already implemented, but the second checkpoint file is not. THis would allow any user at any time to only have to download a few weeks of blockchain data to sync up.
Eh? I didn't get it. I think you are better off developing your own wallet.

Bitcoinj uses checkpoints to avoid downloading the entire chain.. since noone can possibly use the wallet today we can set the earliest checkpoint to today. So that solves the problem of having to download large amounts of data especially if the checkpoints are updated as time goes on.

Oh I already did that last few weeks been learning how to dev for android and catching up on java but I have my initial implementation of devcoin android wallet here: https://github.com/sidhujag/devcoin-android

I am just saying that the private API is not really something the community here will welcome.. its nothing like using an exhcange api to access rate data.
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January 15, 2014, 03:50:43 AM
 #324

This wallet has a centralized API that goes against what bitcoin stands for. If a million people were doing some serious business with the wallet and someone wanted tos crew them over they coudl attack the server(s) and poof your wallet doesn't work.

Hence your wallet's fate is always in the hands of a centralized person(s)... and you will always get this what happened in this post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=293472.msg4473315#msg4473315

Mycelium backs up private keys in BIP38 encrypted format.

Last I saw, it was another encrypted format? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=293472.0;all text search "bip"

Sorry, yes, you're right. Damn. There go my chances of getting hired  Grin
Rassah
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January 15, 2014, 04:49:14 AM
 #325

Bitcoinj uses checkpoints to avoid downloading the entire chain.. since noone can possibly use the wallet today we can set the earliest checkpoint to today. So that solves the problem of having to download large amounts of data especially if the checkpoints are updated as time goes on.

I am just saying that the private API is not really something the community here will welcome.. its nothing like using an exhcange api to access rate data.

Like Electrum v.s. Armory, it's just a question of convenience v.s. security. Personally, I prefer convenience of Mycelium for spending cash (especially with its advanced key management), but don't like Electrum for the same reasons you mention, and prefer Armory for security. The thing that caught my interest for Mycelium was when Jan came up to our table, whipped out a folded business card out of his wallet, opened it to reveal a private key QR code, used Mycelium to scan it into the phone's memory, spent a few coins without having to wait for it to sync up, and then had Mycelium wipe the private key from the memory again. Having your private key in an unhackable paper cold storage form in your wallet was pretty cool!

As for the community, the Bitcoin community is very high on reputation and trust. The Mycelium guys aren't lacking in that at all. Plus there is nothing in the API that can allow them to do anything bad with your money, other than just keep you from spending it through their servers. Not a very big concern, I don't think.
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January 15, 2014, 05:49:17 AM
 #326

Hello

I have a problem importing my celium address to blockchain. Is mycelium import not supported with blockchain?
Jan (OP)
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January 15, 2014, 06:57:39 AM
 #327

Hello

I have a problem importing my celium address to blockchain. Is mycelium import not supported with blockchain?
If you want to import the private key from Mycelium to blockchain.info you have to use the single key export mechanism. Swipe to the Keys tab, select your address, and click export. From there you can get it as text or a QR-code.

Mycelium let's you hold your private keys private.
sidhujag
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January 15, 2014, 07:21:19 AM
 #328

Bitcoinj uses checkpoints to avoid downloading the entire chain.. since noone can possibly use the wallet today we can set the earliest checkpoint to today. So that solves the problem of having to download large amounts of data especially if the checkpoints are updated as time goes on.

I am just saying that the private API is not really something the community here will welcome.. its nothing like using an exhcange api to access rate data.

Like Electrum v.s. Armory, it's just a question of convenience v.s. security. Personally, I prefer convenience of Mycelium for spending cash (especially with its advanced key management), but don't like Electrum for the same reasons you mention, and prefer Armory for security. The thing that caught my interest for Mycelium was when Jan came up to our table, whipped out a folded business card out of his wallet, opened it to reveal a private key QR code, used Mycelium to scan it into the phone's memory, spent a few coins without having to wait for it to sync up, and then had Mycelium wipe the private key from the memory again. Having your private key in an unhackable paper cold storage form in your wallet was pretty cool!

As for the community, the Bitcoin community is very high on reputation and trust. The Mycelium guys aren't lacking in that at all. Plus there is nothing in the API that can allow them to do anything bad with your money, other than just keep you from spending it through their servers. Not a very big concern, I don't think.

Did he spend it in another phone for the demo? bluetooth or nfc? My issue was is if there is no hidden agenda why not open up the api to the public? If I had access to it i would package it up with devcoin qt so that every user would run its own node like any other nodes...


Yes that demo is pretty cool so the added feature is the ability to scan in pvt keys and fund your wallet?
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January 15, 2014, 08:55:02 AM
 #329

Is there a chance to see a Litecoin version?

"Es ist kein Zeichen geistiger Gesundheit, gut angepasst an eine kranke Gesellschaft zu sein."
Jan (OP)
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January 15, 2014, 12:36:17 PM
 #330

...

Like Electrum v.s. Armory, it's just a question of convenience v.s. security. Personally, I prefer convenience of Mycelium for spending cash (especially with its advanced key management), but don't like Electrum for the same reasons you mention, and prefer Armory for security. The thing that caught my interest for Mycelium was when Jan came up to our table, whipped out a folded business card out of his wallet, opened it to reveal a private key QR code, used Mycelium to scan it into the phone's memory, spent a few coins without having to wait for it to sync up, and then had Mycelium wipe the private key from the memory again. Having your private key in an unhackable paper cold storage form in your wallet was pretty cool!

As for the community, the Bitcoin community is very high on reputation and trust. The Mycelium guys aren't lacking in that at all. Plus there is nothing in the API that can allow them to do anything bad with your money, other than just keep you from spending it through their servers. Not a very big concern, I don't think.

Did he spend it in another phone for the demo? bluetooth or nfc? My issue was is if there is no hidden agenda why not open up the api to the public? If I had access to it i would package it up with devcoin qt so that every user would run its own node like any other nodes...


Yes that demo is pretty cool so the added feature is the ability to scan in pvt keys and fund your wallet?
There is no hidden agenda. It is very simple really. We are trying hard to make the best mobile wallet, and are going to add optional payable features. All users can use Mycelium as a fast and secure mobile wallet for free, and we hope that some users will use some of the payable features (right now there are none)
The server side represents a significant investment of time and money, which started two and a half years ago with BitcoinSpinner. We are not interested in giving that away for free. We are a responsible company that pays our employees a salary.

Bitsofproof is another company that has made a similar backend solution, and as far as I remember the sources are open. Check it out, maybe it is better for your needs: http://bitsofproof.com/

Mycelium let's you hold your private keys private.
Jan (OP)
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January 15, 2014, 12:39:41 PM
 #331

Is there a chance to see a Litecoin version?
We are right now focused on Bitcoin, and there are still a lot of improvements that we want to do. Adding Litecoin now would increase the complexity, and we really want to get one thing right first. However, Litecoin is a good candidate for a second currency going forward.

Mycelium let's you hold your private keys private.
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January 16, 2014, 04:02:05 AM
 #332

Hi

Need help please

I just flashed my phone and installing mycelium. I have the private key but unfortunately I lost my pass protected private key.
Is there any way to have access again to this address?
The problem is I just funded this address and need to pay something using this address.
Any help is appreciated


Best Regards
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January 16, 2014, 05:05:58 AM
 #333

Hi

Need help please

I just flashed my phone and installing mycelium. I have the private key but unfortunately I lost my pass protected private key.
Is there any way to have access again to this address?
The problem is I just funded this address and need to pay something using this address.
Any help is appreciated


Best Regards

Do you mean you just have the public key?

If you have the private key it should load into your wallet normally, and you can then spend. If all you have is the public key then stop funding it. You cannot recover the private key from the public key.
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January 16, 2014, 05:40:58 AM
 #334

Do you mean you just have the public key?

If you have the private key it should load into your wallet normally, and you can then spend. If all you have is the public key then stop funding it. You cannot recover the private key from the public key.


Hmmm, I have the private key in skydrive (I backed it up a week ago) but after scanning the private key, it needs 16 digits password. This password seems lost.
Actually, I found the back up password but I doubt it was generated in which back up. I tried it, it's successfully verified but I'm still unable to send BTC.
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January 16, 2014, 06:26:19 AM
 #335

Hi

Need help please

I just flashed my phone and installing mycelium. I have the private key but unfortunately I lost my pass protected private key.
Is there any way to have access again to this address?
The problem is I just funded this address and need to pay something using this address.
Any help is appreciated


Best Regards

Do you mean you just have the public key?

If you have the private key it should load into your wallet normally, and you can then spend. If all you have is the public key then stop funding it. You cannot recover the private key from the public key.

It is a bit unclear what is meant.
You say that you have the private key, and that you lost your password protected private key.
Do you have your private key, and is it encrypted with a password that you do not know?
Or, have you enabled the PIN in the wallet and forgot the PIN?
Please elaborate.

Mycelium let's you hold your private keys private.
Jan (OP)
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January 16, 2014, 06:35:01 AM
 #336

Do you mean you just have the public key?

If you have the private key it should load into your wallet normally, and you can then spend. If all you have is the public key then stop funding it. You cannot recover the private key from the public key.


Hmmm, I have the private key in skydrive (I backed it up a week ago) but after scanning the private key, it needs 16 digits password. This password seems lost.
Actually, I found the back up password but I doubt it was generated in which back up. I tried it, it's successfully verified but I'm still unable to send BTC.
OK. So I guess that you made an encrypted PDF backup. The "Backup Missing" indication doesn't go away until you have verified your backup using the randomly generated password, so if you have done this you would probably have written down the password somewhere as it is impossible to remember.

The backup contains two QR codes for each private key in the backup. One is the bitcoin address, the other is the encrypted private key.
If you import the bitcoin address you will get a read-only address that you cannot spend from.
If you import the encrypted private key you will have to enter the password.

Could it be that you imported the address instead of the encrypted private key?

Try this:
Go to the Keys tab, click the + button and scan the QR code of the encrypted private key in your backup and your pasword. Tell me what happens.


Mycelium let's you hold your private keys private.
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January 16, 2014, 06:36:50 AM
 #337

It is a bit unclear what is meant.
You say that you have the private key, and that you lost your password protected private key.
Do you have your private key, and is it encrypted with a password that you do not know?
Or, have you enabled the PIN in the wallet and forgot the PIN?
Please elaborate.

Sorry for confusing
Yes I do have private key in my skydrive but the encryption password seems lost.
Jan (OP)
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January 16, 2014, 06:46:25 AM
 #338

It is a bit unclear what is meant.
You say that you have the private key, and that you lost your password protected private key.
Do you have your private key, and is it encrypted with a password that you do not know?
Or, have you enabled the PIN in the wallet and forgot the PIN?
Please elaborate.

Sorry for confusing
Yes I do have private key in my skydrive but the encryption password seems lost.
If you have lost the encryption password there is nothing I can do.

Did the app show "Backup Missing" on the main screen before you flashed it?

"Backup Missing" only goes away if you have verified your backup, which requires you to scan the backup and type in the password. If you have done this you may have the password on a piece of paper somewhere. I would look around for it.

Mycelium let's you hold your private keys private.
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January 16, 2014, 06:50:02 AM
 #339

OK. So I guess that you made an encrypted PDF backup. The "Backup Missing" indication doesn't go away until you have verified your backup using the randomly generated password, so if you have done this you would probably have written down the password somewhere as it is impossible to remember.

The backup contains two QR codes for each private key in the backup. One is the bitcoin address, the other is the encrypted private key.
If you import the bitcoin address you will get a read-only address that you cannot spend from.
If you import the encrypted private key you will have to enter the password.

Could it be that you imported the address instead of the encrypted private key?

Try this:
Go to the Keys tab, click the + button and scan the QR code of the encrypted private key in your backup and your pasword. Tell me what happens.

Thank you Jan
Problem solved
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January 16, 2014, 10:03:34 PM
 #340

Thank you Jan
Problem solved

Solved, as in your private key worked? Tell us you got your money back, and make all of us happier. There are too many stories out there of people losing their keys or passwords, and it all ending in nothing but tears.
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