KNC, 100% of their hashing is currently going into their own pocket.

[KS]

if a troll is in the forest, under a bridge, and no one pays him a toll - has the troll done its job by preventing others passage?
lets change around some semantics:
If a global moderator feels compelled to nitpick a company for using an address on their 1st prototyped completed unit and yet turns around and accepted bfl money for years...does that make him a global Troll???  JOHN K??

It's a bit trolly to pick on KNC with only .5 TH online— which is why I made the "I guess I feel left out of the trolling" comment. But I really don't understand why people tolerate manufacturers competing with them. Battered wife syndrome perhaps.

Its nothing as I see avalon testing some terahashes in eligius in months and keep customers to wait and waste of ROI.

It's funny, before avalon had products in existence they made a nice strongly worded comment about how competent testing doesn't involve mining on the network (a position I agree with). As far as I know they didn't mine at scale on the mainnet to test batch 1 units... but the later stuff?  Yea. That also falls into my bin of "why the heck are people tolerating this??".

Seriously???

I've been telling ppl they're full of it for 600+ pages.

What will it take for everyone to get in on the program?

[xhomerx10]

if a troll is in the forest, under a bridge, and no one pays him a toll - has the troll done its job by preventing others passage?
lets change around some semantics:
If a global moderator feels compelled to nitpick a company for using an address on their 1st prototyped completed unit and yet turns around and accepted bfl money for years...does that make him a global Troll???  JOHN K??

It's a bit trolly to pick on KNC with only .5 TH online— which is why I made the "I guess I feel left out of the trolling" comment. But I really don't understand why people tolerate manufacturers competing with them. Battered wife syndrome perhaps.

Its nothing as I see avalon testing some terahashes in eligius in months and keep customers to wait and waste of ROI.

It's funny, before avalon had products in existence they made a nice strongly worded comment about how competent testing doesn't involve mining on the network (a position I agree with). As far as I know they didn't mine at scale on the mainnet to test batch 1 units... but the later stuff?  Yea. That also falls into my bin of "why the heck are people tolerating this??".

Seriously???

I've been telling ppl they're full of it for 600+ pages.

What will it take for everyone to get in on the program?

 They haven't made a heck of a lot - http://blockexplorer.com/address/17Czc8RVL3FU5T2MLx2zLbRnpfBNgH9vFo Anyway, they've been working all weekend so maybe they need some beer money - or Champagne money - and they deserve it!  Finally a company that is a class act and still we aren't happy...
 Kudos to KnC!!!

Take care

 

[Sitarow]

if a troll is in the forest, under a bridge, and no one pays him a toll - has the troll done its job by preventing others passage?
lets change around some semantics:
If a global moderator feels compelled to nitpick a company for using an address on their 1st prototyped completed unit and yet turns around and accepted bfl money for years...does that make him a global Troll???  JOHN K??

It's a bit trolly to pick on KNC with only .5 TH online— which is why I made the "I guess I feel left out of the trolling" comment. But I really don't understand why people tolerate manufacturers competing with them. Battered wife syndrome perhaps.

Its nothing as I see avalon testing some terahashes in eligius in months and keep customers to wait and waste of ROI.

It's funny, before avalon had products in existence they made a nice strongly worded comment about how competent testing doesn't involve mining on the network (a position I agree with). As far as I know they didn't mine at scale on the mainnet to test batch 1 units... but the later stuff?  Yea. That also falls into my bin of "why the heck are people tolerating this??".

Seriously???

I've been telling ppl they're full of it for 600+ pages.

What will it take for everyone to get in on the program?

 They haven't made a heck of a lot - http://blockexplorer.com/address/17Czc8RVL3FU5T2MLx2zLbRnpfBNgH9vFo Anyway, they've been working all weekend so maybe they need some beer money - or Champagne money - and they deserve it!  Finally a company that is a class act and still we aren't happy...
 Kudos to KnC!!!

Take care

 

https://blockchain.info/address/17Czc8RVL3FU5T2MLx2zLbRnpfBNgH9vFo

[rizzman]

I guess I feel a bit left out of all the trolling—

KNC is now mining on their hardware, while customers wait for it to ship:

http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/17Czc8RVL3FU5T2MLx2zLbRnpfBNgH9vFo

This is, as far as I know, 100% of the KNC hashrate in existence. Pedantically speaking, it means that KNC is violating their 5% commitment.

Testing doesn't involve using the production network. Production mining is unlikely to test finding blocks— whereas testnet, or replays of past found blocks are more complete tests.  Mining on the mainnet increases the difficulty and takes income from customers who are waiting on units that will be late.  Every bit of earlier mining is worth large amounts of future mining due to expected growth.

I do not understand why miners keep funding mining hardware companies that mine in competition with their own customers.

Are you serious? Cant tell if trolling the trolls or just retarded.

You know, the old books did always say the only way to get rid of a troll is by the proper application of fire 

[Dagger75]

https://ghash.io/

Bitfury has been mining over 100TH/s for about 6 weeks...Now they're at 220TH/s.

I sure don't agree with Hardware companies Selling us Millions of $$ of mining hardware while they're mining 10%-40% of the whole damn network!~!  While We wait for our gear to get delivered

[gmaxwell]

yeeah , on a testnet !?
And everybody will troll they fixed the tests, like that wil work.....

No they wont— it's not possible to "fix" testnet mining any more than mainnet mining, hashing is it's own proof....  at least not anymore than you have on the mainnet:  How do you know thats KNC hardware hashing and not just a bitfury device or a couple avalons/bfls?

Business men everywhere are all the same.  What they do is limited by the laws of where they operate?
If you think otherwise, you are very naive.

And the contracts they form with their investors and customers. I wonder why so many people here give money to companies that use it to turn around and compete with them?

It's proof it's hashing. They will stop, just shut up for a day.

No, it's not proof— after all, it could just as easily be some other hardware. They won't stop either— perhaps temporarily, but you can go find pictures of their build-out in the thread.

I find is strange that Moderators like gmaxwell are taking this path. I thought this forum was neutral to everything and let user decide for themselves.

So, my ability to just use the forum like anyone else vanishes when I say something you don't like? I see.

What do you have to win here by doing this?

Nothing. I was idling in Eligius' IRC channel and Bargraphics linked to the announcement. I thought it was ridiculous that KNC was mining on mainnet, competing with their own customers, while they are waiting on now late equipment. Thus the post.

If a mod can troll the reputation of a wannabe legit ASIC manufacturer, whyfore can the mod NOT receive such damage to his rep?

"troll the reputation"— uh, pointing something out, and saying that I'd be furious about it if I were a customer...  If their reputation is going to be dinged by some disapproval, then perhaps they ought not do things that are so easily disapproved of.   If you don't think this is a reason someone should be unhappy, then please feel free to ignore it.

[Carlton Banks]

The typical swarm of locusts descends to fight to the cannibalistic death over the latest mining drama 

The only solution to this mess is the ROI-pocalypse. Post-ASIC mining cannot get to a stable short-term outcome scenario too soon. I fear it will take anything up to 6 months, though.

[erschiessen]

I gave you a negative trust rating because of this horseshit FUD.
Worst faggy waste of forum resources that I have seen today.
From a frikkin moderator in this very subforum, no less.

That has nothing to do with the rating system. This is an abuse of the rating system.

Feel free to give me a negative rating, then. I don't give a shit, because I don't need to pretend to show impartiality, like you two SHOULD.
Spreading bullshit about a company because it is in your financial interests to see them fail (or insert whatever reason here) please tell me how that is NOT an issue of trust -OR (I should say) - a violation of trust.

Or, is this place one where trolls have taken over, and should not be called out as such?
If he cared about his reputation, he shouldn't be such a dumbass, right?
The Trust Rating System was rolled out well after I became a member, as such, I signed no TOS regarding it.
It was called for (well, some system of rating others, not this one) in part because of the LACK of impartiality shown by bitcointalk mods and staff. Favoritism shown to some, vitriol toward others.

If a mod can troll the reputation of a wannabe legit ASIC manufacturer, whyfore can the mod NOT receive such damage to his rep?

[RoadStress]

yeeah , on a testnet !?
And everybody will troll they fixed the tests, like that wil work.....

No they wont— it's not possible to "fix" testnet mining any more than mainnet mining, hashing is it's own proof....  at least not anymore than you have on the mainnet:  How do you know thats KNC hardware hashing and not just a bitfury device or a couple avalons/bfls?

Business men everywhere are all the same.  What they do is limited by the laws of where they operate?
If you think otherwise, you are very naive.

And the contracts they form with their investors and customers. I wonder why so many people here give money to companies that use it to turn around and compete with them?

It's proof it's hashing. They will stop, just shut up for a day.

No, it's not proof— after all, it could just as easily be some other hardware. They won't stop either— perhaps temporarily, but you can go find pictures of their build-out in the thread.

I find is strange that Moderators like gmaxwell are taking this path. I thought this forum was neutral to everything and let user decide for themselves.

So, my ability to just use the forum like anyone else vanishes when I say something you don't like? I see.

What do you have to win here by doing this?

Nothing. I was idling in Eligius' IRC channel and Bargraphics linked to the announcement. I thought it was ridiculous that KNC was mining on mainnet, competing with their own customers, while they are waiting on now late equipment. Thus the post.

So what's the point of this thread exactly?

Edit: But they already said they will mine with their own farm. So? At least they had the decency to let customers know...

[gmaxwell]

Edit: But they already said they will mine with their own farm. So? At least they had the decency to let customers know...

Indeed, but "no more than 5%", after it was demanded by customers. It's currently 100% as far as I can tell. Pedantry, ... sure, a bit, but the most important mining is the earliest.

So what's the point of this thread exactly?

See the OP: "I do not understand why miners keep funding mining hardware companies that mine in competition with their own customers."

Besides, sometimes it's fun to watch the crazy partisans froth here and there.

[amer]

yeeah , on a testnet !?
And everybody will troll they fixed the tests, like that wil work.....

No they wont— it's not possible to "fix" testnet mining any more than mainnet mining, hashing is it's own proof....  at least not anymore than you have on the mainnet:  How do you know thats KNC hardware hashing and not just a bitfury device or a couple avalons/bfls?

Because matches the Eligius link.

Business men everywhere are all the same.  What they do is limited by the laws of where they operate?
If you think otherwise, you are very naive.

And the contracts they form with their investors and customers. I wonder why so many people here give money to companies that use it to turn around and compete with them?

Was there some contract where it was stated that they are not allowed to mine with their own equipment? I missed this. Wouldn't it just be prudent that if you're producing mining equipment that you also eat your own dog food?

It's proof it's hashing. They will stop, just shut up for a day.

No, it's not proof— after all, it could just as easily be some other hardware. They won't stop either— perhaps temporarily, but you can go find pictures of their build-out in the thread.

Again, the same unit on the laptop in the posted Youtube video is the one hashing.

I have no horse in this race ($0 in KnC gear), but I can't see that this "discovery" really makes a point. They are late on their promises, which is a problem by itself, but if they are mining with one of their own units, I don't think this is damning.

[DPoS]

Edit: But they already said they will mine with their own farm. So? At least they had the decency to let customers know...

Indeed, but "no more than 5%", after it was demanded by customers. It's currently 100% as far as I can tell. Pedantry, ... sure, a bit, but the most important mining is the earliest.

Hilarious desperation of trolling

[RoadStress]

Edit: But they already said they will mine with their own farm. So? At least they had the decency to let customers know...

Indeed, but "no more than 5%", after it was demanded by customers. It's currently 100% as far as I can tell. Pedantry, ... sure, a bit, but the most important mining is the earliest.

You are either drunk or high. Do you really think that 0.5Th/s is 100% of their total hashing amount? They got lots of units to ship and they can mine with a lot more, but they don't. They just need X minutes to assemble one more unit.

Actually your thread title is very correct and will remain correct no matter the terms, because 100% of THEIR hashing will always go into their own pocket

[gmaxwell]

Hilarious desperation of trolling

Goes well with the hilarious desperate defenses. ... If you don't think there is anything wrong with how some miner hardware companies compete with their own customers even while late on their delivers— then there is nothing to defend and nothing to see here.

[ASIC-K]

Hilarious desperation of trolling

Goes well with the hilarious desperate defenses. ... If you don't think there is anything wrong with how some miner hardware companies compete with their own customers even while late on their delivers— then there is nothing to defend and nothing to see here.

lol you're such a moron. this thread is so pointless.

[RoadStress]

Hilarious desperation of trolling

Goes well with the hilarious desperate defenses. ... If you don't think there is anything wrong with how some miner hardware companies compete with their own customers even while late on their delivers— then there is nothing to defend and nothing to see here.

What's actually wrong is the impartiality of the Mods. Why aren't you also blaming Avalon? There are numerous reports of units full of dusts and with pre-made settings.

[Dagger75]

Don't ANY of you see the larger picture here?  Mining Companies hashing on live Network after customers paid Millions for those devices.  As an Example, Bitfury was nearly 35% of the network when they first rolled out their gear.  https://ghash.io/

Instead of thinking a couple days or weeks down the line, look a few months down the line and how do you see the Bitcoin Network?  Are any hobby miners going to be able to survive when there are 10 Hardware companies making up 80% of the total (Now Centralized) Network.

KnC has done a great job in getting their gear out in record time so far but the point about mining remains imho.

[gmaxwell]

Why aren't you also blaming Avalon? There are numerous reports of units full of dusts and with pre-made settings.

Why would I be blaming Avalon? I'm not blaming KNC.  If anyone at all, I'm blaming their customers.  Avalon customers— well, post-batch-1 customers have already been punished enough to not get flak from me, dontcha think?

I'm generally pretty harsh on hashing power consolidations. They undermine the security assumptions of the Bitcoin system. Review my posts if you like.

[Paladin69]

Wait, what?  All I see is one Jupiter running?

[Carlton Banks]

However true, I would criticise the timing of the OP  . You have angered the natives, and it seems that as far as rational debate goes, you can choose between sacrificial heart eating and crucifixion.