Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Order Batch 1 Now!

[anderl]

Also heard on Coin Desk  http://www.coindesk.com/private-china-meeting-bitcoin-mining-industry-leaders/

"The battle for share of the scrypt-coin networks is about to heat up too,
with at least four companies (Zeus, Gridseed, Innosilicon and Silverfish) apparently all ready to roll with existing inventory.
At stake is about 200 gigahashes-worth of total litecoin/dogecoin/etc mining power around the world,
all still running on GPUs – but not for long."

Will the last person mining scrypt coins please turn out the lights.

I wake up and see this.
Alpha Tech is not even in the list.

because the actually consumer miner is still vaporware.

[1714944228]

1714944228

[anderl]

So the larger question is, why is what AT does so interesting for you all?

Drama. Plain and simple. The eternal human struggle with greed, fear, hope, ignorance.

Bitcoin theater ...

And it is a perfect storm of drama.

A stage - set with highly competitive start ups racing to see who produced the best miner and lasts more than a year
The actors of this scene - are a bunch of accountants that know bookkeeping, and maybe project management but know nothing of manufacturing.  They develop some IP and offshore 90% of the work.  Because they aren;t familiar with the manufacturing space they do not know how to market products to customer. 
The characters - They are reactionary, spiteful, fully of hubris, and desperate.  So very Shakespearian.

It is wonderful to watch.

[vesperwillow]

Fiaz, here is a suggestion for your company, which I believe would please everyone.

* Since you know you guys will be shipping in July, which has to mean you'll have a working system in June

* And since most people are losing faith in the company because the timeline doesn't seem to add up

* And since you apparently have a good relationship with the Foundry, and no doubt have lines of credit since you are an established business

--> Why don't you hold off on requiring payment until you have demonstrated both working machines (the lesser and greater). Wouldn't have to be ones ready for shipment, but show that you have the chips in hand, and you're working the specs up. What you could do is provide a slight discount to those who "have faith" to pay by the deadline.

Afterall let's be honest, when no other company in the history of crypto has shipped on time being this late with the tapeout process, would you trust a newcomer with your money? Especially since for many months they claimed to be on target, potentially early, will not be late--and are now making concessions and talking about giving out free hashpower and stuff, "just pay now".

Fiaz, I am re-quoting this because it is of utmost importance your company act. Silence isn't good, especially with:

* Tapeout process ongoing, likelihood of meeting July delivery AT promised spec is not probable

* CE certification takes a long time, unless you plan to exclude power supplies - in which case this can cause design issues, and customers should be compensated

Keep in mind, informed and knowledgable parties are monitoring this thread and your announcements.

[s1gs3gv]

It is wonderful to watch.

A unique moment in human history.

Catalogued in excruciating detail for eternity thanks to the internet.

[LongAndShort]

So the larger question is, why is what AT does so interesting for you all?

Drama. Plain and simple. The eternal human struggle with greed, fear, hope, ignorance.

Bitcoin theater ...

And it is a perfect storm of drama.

A stage - set with highly competitive start ups racing to see who produced the best miner and lasts more than a year
The actors of this scene - are a bunch of accountants that know bookkeeping, and maybe project management but know nothing of manufacturing.  They develop some IP and offshore 90% of the work.  Because they aren;t familiar with the manufacturing space they do not know how to market products to customer.  
The characters - They are reactionary, spiteful, fully of hubris, and desperate.  So very Shakespearian.

It is wonderful to watch.

Its refreshing to see someone so insightful.

The Zues thread in ltc forum is giving me a headache to read most people there don't understand why GAW miners are coming out faster and are crying. They miss the point where GAW ordered well before them and miss the point where because of that, GAW got their machines well before any of them kinda like some of the people here wondering why alpha is not on that list from china manufacturers in a secrete meeting..

Forgetting that alpha may not be in china but in the UK and that Chinese meeting was for Chinese manufacturers that need to come together because they are bloody good business men, its proven and they are doing the smart thing because some of them maybe the opposite to what you're suggesting is they are great at the manufacture line but terrible at projected outcomes..

These are only guesses based on cultural background
but how far am i from the money.. Fact remains though that a large part of Chinese manufacturers are selling in hand stock! and the rest of this space needs to play some catchup but i hope these bedwetting miners learn to just stop, wetting the bed because it is most annoying.

I see china creating a cartel (in my opinion it would be similar to the families that created the fed in America so they wouldn't have to compete with each other!), a powerful one which may or may not be good for miners but it sure as shit will put pressure on these startups to start taking more of the risk..Hell in theory taking more of the risk from retail grade consumer in my opinion would be better for them as a company because they wont have so many bed wetters making a run at the bank type deal when things don't turn out like delusions they fed themselves.

I see it as extremely detrimental that 100s of noobs not understanding a thing all start wanting refunds!

[s1gs3gv]

<snip> … and that Chinese meeting was for Chinese manufacturers that need to come together ...

You obviously missed the bit in the lightningasic thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421921.msg7031804#msg7031804) where Jack declared war on GAW today

// edited to correct thread reference

[LongAndShort]

<snip> … and that Chinese meeting was for Chinese manufacturers that need to come together ...

You obviously missed the bit in the lightningasic thread (altcoins) where Jack declared war on GAW today

Yes its safe to assume i did because i'm really getting tired of sifting through all the daft posts to get to the decent conversations.
But not everyone has to get along

[s1gs3gv]

<snip> … and that Chinese meeting was for Chinese manufacturers that need to come together ...

You obviously missed the bit in the lightningasic thread (altcoins) where Jack declared war on GAW today

Yes its safe to assume i did because i'm really getting tired of sifting through all the daft posts to get to the decent conversations.
But not everyone has to get along

Yeah it is a bit tedious but in this human drama the devil is in the details, much like a Dostoyevsky novel.

[barruka]

I dont know if cancel or go on with the order... dunno

[Its About Sharing]

I dont know if cancel or go on with the order... dunno

Have you looked at the litecoin mining calculators?
The 50Mh/s unit IF delivered in July should return a profit. Depends a bit on if LTC keeps crapping down on us.
I think the average result of the calculators was 3 point something LTC a day on the small unit.
Anyone do any calculations on the miners and LTC difficulty? I used a 3% rising difficulty, not sure if that is a good setting or not.

[vesperwillow]

I dont know if cancel or go on with the order... dunno

Have you looked at the litecoin mining calculators?
The 50Mh/s unit IF delivered in July should return a profit. Depends a bit on if LTC keeps crapping down on us.
I think the average result of the calculators was 3 point something LTC a day on the small unit.
Anyone do any calculations on the miners and LTC difficulty? I used a 3% rising difficulty, not sure if that is a good setting or not.

Did you do any side calculations to take into account the net effect of all AT gear hitting the network? I believe they originally had 2,500 machines selling in batch one--might be off a little on that number. Also bear in mind the other petahashes coming from other distributors in June/July.

Just off the hip, I would've used 20% difficulty hop. This is without looking at any data sheets.

And when KNC's stuff hits the market, the gloves will be off. They're coming out of tapeout on their first gen units, in fact they should already be working with the chips right now to reach their Q2/Q3 delivery projections (I'm personally thinking July/August). Not sure if you follow KNC, but their first gen gear will triple LTC global hashrate. And their 2nd and 3rd batch orders are processing.

[Its About Sharing]

I dont know if cancel or go on with the order... dunno

Have you looked at the litecoin mining calculators?
The 50Mh/s unit IF delivered in July should return a profit. Depends a bit on if LTC keeps crapping down on us.
I think the average result of the calculators was 3 point something LTC a day on the small unit.
Anyone do any calculations on the miners and LTC difficulty? I used a 3% rising difficulty, not sure if that is a good setting or not.

Did you do any side calculations to take into account the net effect of all AT gear hitting the network? I believe they originally had 2,500 machines selling in batch one--might be off a little on that number. Also bear in mind the other petahashes coming from other distributors in June/July.

Just off the hip, I would've used 20% difficulty hop. This is without looking at any data sheets.

And when KNC's stuff hits the market, the gloves will be off. They're coming out of tapeout on their first gen units, in fact they should already be working with the chips right now to reach their Q2/Q3 delivery projections (I'm personally thinking July/August). Not sure if you follow KNC, but their first gen gear will triple LTC global hashrate. And their 2nd and 3rd batch orders are processing.

I didn't do any further calculations, but I started the difficulty at 15000 instead of the current 8900 the calculator gave.
20% hop? Wow, but if KNC and the others deliver we are talking ASIC's and not GPU's. Guess that is believable.
What are some of the numbers you have run. Would be appreciated. Say for a late July delivery.

[s1gs3gv]

And when KNC's stuff hits the market, the gloves will be off. They're coming out of tapeout on their first gen units, in fact they should already be working with the chips right now to reach their Q2/Q3 delivery projections

Did I miss a KNC announcement about beginning tape-out or do you have other sources ?

[maardein]

I dont know if cancel or go on with the order... dunno

Have you looked at the litecoin mining calculators?
The 50Mh/s unit IF delivered in July should return a profit. Depends a bit on if LTC keeps crapping down on us.
I think the average result of the calculators was 3 point something LTC a day on the small unit.
Anyone do any calculations on the miners and LTC difficulty? I used a 3% rising difficulty, not sure if that is a good setting or not.

Did you do any side calculations to take into account the net effect of all AT gear hitting the network? I believe they originally had 2,500 machines selling in batch one--might be off a little on that number. Also bear in mind the other petahashes coming from other distributors in June/July.

Just off the hip, I would've used 20% difficulty hop. This is without looking at any data sheets.

And when KNC's stuff hits the market, the gloves will be off. They're coming out of tapeout on their first gen units, in fact they should already be working with the chips right now to reach their Q2/Q3 delivery projections (I'm personally thinking July/August). Not sure if you follow KNC, but their first gen gear will triple LTC global hashrate. And their 2nd and 3rd batch orders are processing.

20% for LTC is a lot. The difficulty for LTC changes more often than that of BTC, so generally the changes are smaller.

I am using 3% as low estimate for the short term, and 10% as a high estimate.

[vesperwillow]

I didn't do any further calculations, but I started the difficulty at 15000 instead of the current 8900 the calculator gave.
20% hop? Wow, but if KNC and the others deliver we are talking ASIC's and not GPU's. Guess that is believable.
What are some of the numbers you have run. Would be appreciated. Say for a late July delivery.

I don't have anything with me (it's at work), just going off the top of my head. When I examined KNC's batch 1 gear, I remember that it was going to be 2PH minimum, with potentially another 1PH depending on how overclocking and KNC's own datacenters play out. They plan on more batches after that, and there's been rumor of a multi-aglo machine.

Did I miss a KNC announcement about beginning tape-out or do you have other sources ?

Buried in one of the large KNC threads on here is where I saw the announcement that they started tapeout about 40 days ago or so. Their batch 1 delivery projects were what, August? Q2/Q3 is what they promised, with Q2 being most likely, Q3 being latest. They stopped development on the chip 2 months ago. So this rough timeframe ballparking adds up, they should have chips in hand no later than June. (my projection based on what I know and how they've performed before) Historically it takes them 3 weeks for final tuning and have stuff going into crates for UPS pickup.

I don't hold onto links, I just keep some rough notes. It's one of the many reasons Alpha needs to step up to the plate, the big boys are catching up fast. I also talk with some folks who are closer to KNC.

20% for LTC is a lot. The difficulty for LTC changes more often than that of BTC, so generally the changes are smaller.

I am using 3% as low estimate for the short term, and 10% as a high estimate.

Yes, it is a lot, but keep in mind how much hash is coming from 4 distributors right now, with the ones currently shipping about to release another batch, and with Alpha Tec "supposedly" shipping in July, and with KNC.

Do the math on KNC's gear. Minimum of 300MH times 1500 units, and then 150MH times 1500 units. And then if you want to get fruity, add 20% to those numbers for overclock hashing. And KNC will be mining LTC as well, so who knows how much hash they'll be bringing on for themselves.

It's significant, hence my rough sketch of a possible jump once everything comes online. It may not be 20%, but it's not going to just be a few percent. Remember, KNC is the sole reason behind BTC's huge difficulty hops starting back in November. Their goal is to demolish scrypt hash and difficulty, and something tells me their gen2 scrypt gear will be near the GH range.

[s1gs3gv]

Did I miss a KNC announcement about beginning tape-out or do you have other sources ?

Buried in one of the large KNC threads on here is where I saw the announcement that they started tapeout about 40 days ago or so. Their batch 1 delivery projects were what, August? Q2/Q3 is what they promised, with Q2 being most likely, Q3 being latest. They stopped development on the chip 2 months ago. So this rough timeframe ballparking adds up, they should have chips in hand no later than June. (my projection based on what I know and how they've performed before) Historically it takes them 3 weeks for final tuning and have stuff going into crates for UPS pickup.

In KNC's May 14th announcement on their site they said "We're expecting to announce final tape out within the next few weeks."

[vesperwillow]

Did I miss a KNC announcement about beginning tape-out or do you have other sources ?

Buried in one of the large KNC threads on here is where I saw the announcement that they started tapeout about 40 days ago or so. Their batch 1 delivery projects were what, August? Q2/Q3 is what they promised, with Q2 being most likely, Q3 being latest. They stopped development on the chip 2 months ago. So this rough timeframe ballparking adds up, they should have chips in hand no later than June. (my projection based on what I know and how they've performed before) Historically it takes them 3 weeks for final tuning and have stuff going into crates for UPS pickup.

In KNC's May 14th announcement on their site they said "We're expecting to announce final tape out within the next few weeks."

That could be interpreted a few ways. Considering their design team was done 2 months ago, and they're aiming for shipping in the next 2 months, I'd say it is interpreted as their tapeout will be complete within the next few weeks. They did the same thing/same rhetoric for their asic machines.

[s1gs3gv]

Did I miss a KNC announcement about beginning tape-out or do you have other sources ?

Buried in one of the large KNC threads on here is where I saw the announcement that they started tapeout about 40 days ago or so. Their batch 1 delivery projects were what, August? Q2/Q3 is what they promised, with Q2 being most likely, Q3 being latest. They stopped development on the chip 2 months ago. So this rough timeframe ballparking adds up, they should have chips in hand no later than June. (my projection based on what I know and how they've performed before) Historically it takes them 3 weeks for final tuning and have stuff going into crates for UPS pickup.

In KNC's May 14th announcement on their site they said "We're expecting to announce final tape out within the next few weeks."

That could be interpreted a few ways. Considering their design team was done 2 months ago, and they're aiming for shipping in the next 2 months, I'd say it is interpreted as their tapeout will be complete within the next few weeks. They did the same thing/same rhetoric for their asic machines.

I hope you are right ! I've got a nice PSU waiting for my Titan. Now please make my day and tell me that you heard a rumor from a little KNC birdie that the Titan will be closer to 500 than 300 mhs ...

[endoffiat]

Did I miss a KNC announcement about beginning tape-out or do you have other sources ?

Buried in one of the large KNC threads on here is where I saw the announcement that they started tapeout about 40 days ago or so. Their batch 1 delivery projects were what, August? Q2/Q3 is what they promised, with Q2 being most likely, Q3 being latest. They stopped development on the chip 2 months ago. So this rough timeframe ballparking adds up, they should have chips in hand no later than June. (my projection based on what I know and how they've performed before) Historically it takes them 3 weeks for final tuning and have stuff going into crates for UPS pickup.

In KNC's May 14th announcement on their site they said "We're expecting to announce final tape out within the next few weeks."

That could be interpreted a few ways. Considering their design team was done 2 months ago, and they're aiming for shipping in the next 2 months, I'd say it is interpreted as their tapeout will be complete within the next few weeks. They did the same thing/same rhetoric for their asic machines.

lol you got owned vesperwillow, read it and weep. May 14th "We're EXPECTING TO ANNOUNCE final tape out within the next few weeks. i read it as: they will ANNOUNCE WHEN tape out is finished, and correct me if i'm wrong but i believe there has been no such announcement. Also read KNC announcement to find out that they have still not delivered their super NEPTUNE sha-256 miners lol. now they say get 2 for 1 and they will take them from batch 3 stock lol lol. so do tell me vesperwillow, how can KNC be on top of things with their mighty TITAN scrypt machines, when they are literally months behind on their NEPTUNE miners. that is the real, and only interpretation 

[LongAndShort]

Did I miss a KNC announcement about beginning tape-out or do you have other sources ?

Buried in one of the large KNC threads on here is where I saw the announcement that they started tapeout about 40 days ago or so. Their batch 1 delivery projects were what, August? Q2/Q3 is what they promised, with Q2 being most likely, Q3 being latest. They stopped development on the chip 2 months ago. So this rough timeframe ballparking adds up, they should have chips in hand no later than June. (my projection based on what I know and how they've performed before) Historically it takes them 3 weeks for final tuning and have stuff going into crates for UPS pickup.

In KNC's May 14th announcement on their site they said "We're expecting to announce final tape out within the next few weeks."

That could be interpreted a few ways. Considering their design team was done 2 months ago, and they're aiming for shipping in the next 2 months, I'd say it is interpreted as their tapeout will be complete within the next few weeks. They did the same thing/same rhetoric for their asic machines.

lol you got owned vesperwillow, read it and weep. May 14th "We're EXPECTING TO ANNOUNCE final tape out within the next few weeks. i read it as: they will ANNOUNCE WHEN tape out is finished, and correct me if i'm wrong but i believe there has been no such announcement. Also read KNC announcement to find out that they have still not delivered their super NEPTUNE sha-256 miners lol. now they say get 2 for 1 and they will take them from batch 3 stock lol lol. so do tell me vesperwillow, how can KNC be on top of things with their mighty TITAN scrypt machines, when they are literally months behind on their NEPTUNE miners. that is the real, and only interpretation 

Neptune says Q2-Q3, people are just wetting the bed because its the end of Q2! They want them now and that is very different to the realistic time frame knc has given. If i'm not mistaken same is applied to the titan they are on schedual just like the neptune. I don't, however know how relevant either of those machines will be once shipped though (to the bedwetting miner) because i haven't done the numbers recently but they will roi one day its just a matter of how long you can hold onto the coins you mine without pissing yourselves. Thats the true measure of who is a scrub and who is a winner and you cant blame any of these companies if you sell at a loss!

If you want to make amazing profits and roi early then you must get funding and find cheap power/overheads and get a bulk deal on chips to make your own miners! its as simple as that and has been this way since November last year. Unless you can do that then you are stuck taking what you can get and reinvesting or holding the coins for a long long time.

Accept it, deal with it and negate it as much as you can and you will start having fun again Dont and you will continue to be a sniving little creep who always feels hard done by and will always be worried too much about how much a company is making or how much the ceo has earn't this year from his farm!