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Author Topic: [TEK] TEKcoin Hi-PoS hybrid pos/pow no premine/ipo/ico  (Read 429940 times)
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a_cat_named_joe
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March 07, 2016, 03:19:54 PM
 #5181

@ Trimegistus

Micro-staking strategy was a game-changer. Are you saying that you are quite happy with that?

To all investors:

Another game-changer could be decoupling the link between the percentage payout and the difficulty - and coding in a framework that includes the linking of the percentage payout to the coin supply. How do you all feel about bringing in this much needed Spring clean?
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Trimegistus
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March 07, 2016, 03:28:19 PM
 #5182

@ Trimegistus

Micro-staking strategy was a game-changer. Are you saying that you are quite happy with that?

To all investors:

Another game-changer could be decoupling the link between the percentage payout and the difficulty - and coding in a framework, which includes the linking of the percentage payout to the coin supply. How do you all feel about bringing in this much needed Spring clean?

Absolutely not! I'm not happy at all! But, taking into account that the solution is still far from being consensual (with or without hardfork) and apparently is not going to happen anytime soon, I prefer to ignore them!

Get it? I do not approve those tactics, but I try to ignore them! I cannot fight them, therefore I pretend they don't even exist!

I know they are real, but I don't let them rule my staking rhythm. That's all my saying...  Grin


a_cat_named_joe
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March 07, 2016, 03:58:48 PM
 #5183

Let's press for a consensus and then put it to Thundertoe. After all Tek isn't a democracy. He decides what he thinks is the best way forward.

So who doesn't agree with a fix that includes decoupling the link between the percentage payout and the difficulty, and links the percentage payout to the coin supply?
Enema
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March 07, 2016, 06:34:47 PM
 #5184

Let's press for a consensus and then put it to Thundertoe. After all Tek isn't a democracy. He decides what he thinks is the best way forward.

So who doesn't agree with a fix that includes decoupling the link between the percentage payout and the difficulty, and links the percentage payout to the coin supply?
This solution was already posted last October, but as usual nobody of the TEK team or any dev cared to reply....
I guess they have a reason to keep this retarded POS scheme.
Just as BigToe had a reason to keep all TEK on the exchange rather then staking in his wallet.

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March 07, 2016, 06:51:15 PM
 #5185

Let's press for a consensus and then put it to Thundertoe. After all Tek isn't a democracy. He decides what he thinks is the best way forward.

So who doesn't agree with a fix that includes decoupling the link between the percentage payout and the difficulty, and links the percentage payout to the coin supply?
This solution was already posted last October, but as usual nobody of the TEK team or any dev cared to reply....
I guess they have a reason to keep this retarded POS scheme.
Just as BigToe had a reason to keep all TEK on the exchange rather then staking in his wallet.

wrong i lost no TEKcoin, just everything else but thanks. i actually have still been buying lately and have the most TEKcoin i ever have had right now... almost no btc or usd though so yay.
Biomech
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March 07, 2016, 06:51:44 PM
 #5186

Let's press for a consensus and then put it to Thundertoe. After all Tek isn't a democracy. He decides what he thinks is the best way forward.

So who doesn't agree with a fix that includes decoupling the link between the percentage payout and the difficulty, and links the percentage payout to the coin supply?

I actually prefer the schema that Thundertoe had proposed, where anything <1K is not eligible for stake. Doesn't completely stop microstaking, but it certainly changes the game.

Buy Bitcoins with Paypal, Credit card, or other methods. Send me a PM or a text to 208-451-2665.
Enema
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March 07, 2016, 07:42:17 PM
 #5187

Let's press for a consensus and then put it to Thundertoe. After all Tek isn't a democracy. He decides what he thinks is the best way forward.

So who doesn't agree with a fix that includes decoupling the link between the percentage payout and the difficulty, and links the percentage payout to the coin supply?
This solution was already posted last October, but as usual nobody of the TEK team or any dev cared to reply....
I guess they have a reason to keep this retarded POS scheme.
Just as BigToe had a reason to keep all TEK on the exchange rather then staking in his wallet.

wrong i lost no TEKcoin, just everything else but thanks. i actually have still been buying lately and have the most TEKcoin i ever have had right now... almost no btc or usd though so yay.
Well that wasn't clear in your postings, thanks for the correction.
Still leaves one question :
Why not changing interest rate with coin supply instead of diff ?

EDIT :
Dev have some bounty for my image ? send some Tek thanks my TEK BjwXR2Bfv7MrpEomj8vyYUrEZ996DRJD3r

Sorry I have nothing i lost everything at crapsy.
Here you clearly wrote you lost everything...
OSMIUM will be glad with your bonus for his nice work, in case you have not sent him any.  Grin

Joebwan
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March 07, 2016, 08:13:17 PM
 #5188

Let's press for a consensus and then put it to Thundertoe. After all Tek isn't a democracy. He decides what he thinks is the best way forward.

So who doesn't agree with a fix that includes decoupling the link between the percentage payout and the difficulty, and links the percentage payout to the coin supply?

I actually prefer the schema that Thundertoe had proposed, where anything <1K is not eligible for stake. Doesn't completely stop microstaking, but it certainly changes the game.

Since difficulty is a function of coin supply indirectly already, I am more in favor of the <1K thing. Maybe a flat rate of 5% up to 1K TEK, this way folks with small holding still have incentive, but anyone with quantity has motivation to coin control.
Biomech
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March 07, 2016, 08:36:15 PM
 #5189

Let's press for a consensus and then put it to Thundertoe. After all Tek isn't a democracy. He decides what he thinks is the best way forward.

So who doesn't agree with a fix that includes decoupling the link between the percentage payout and the difficulty, and links the percentage payout to the coin supply?
This solution was already posted last October, but as usual nobody of the TEK team or any dev cared to reply....
I guess they have a reason to keep this retarded POS scheme.
Just as BigToe had a reason to keep all TEK on the exchange rather then staking in his wallet.

wrong i lost no TEKcoin, just everything else but thanks. i actually have still been buying lately and have the most TEKcoin i ever have had right now... almost no btc or usd though so yay.
Well that wasn't clear in your postings, thanks for the correction.
Still leaves one question :
Why not changing interest rate with coin supply instead of diff ?

EDIT :
Dev have some bounty for my image ? send some Tek thanks my TEK BjwXR2Bfv7MrpEomj8vyYUrEZ996DRJD3r

Sorry I have nothing i lost everything at crapsy.
Here you clearly wrote you lost everything...
OSMIUM will be glad with your bonus for his nice work, in case you have not sent him any.  Grin

I'm somewhat familiar with Thundertoe's problems. It's personal and I'll not go into it without his permission. Let's just say he has been having a rough time with finances. Cut the guy some slack.

Buy Bitcoins with Paypal, Credit card, or other methods. Send me a PM or a text to 208-451-2665.
a_cat_named_joe
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March 07, 2016, 08:48:40 PM
 #5190

Let's all agree to that. Biomech your post came in just as I was writing this ...
a_cat_named_joe
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March 07, 2016, 08:50:46 PM
 #5191

Let's press for a consensus and then put it to Thundertoe. After all Tek isn't a democracy. He decides what he thinks is the best way forward.

So who doesn't agree with a fix that includes decoupling the link between the percentage payout and the difficulty, and links the percentage payout to the coin supply?

I actually prefer the schema that Thundertoe had proposed, where anything <1K is not eligible for stake. Doesn't completely stop microstaking, but it certainly changes the game.

Since difficulty is a function of coin supply indirectly already, I am more in favor of the <1K thing. Maybe a flat rate of 5% up to 1K TEK, this way folks with small holding still have incentive, but anyone with quantity has motivation to coin control.

The <1K solutions single out the poor for low grade, or 0% staking. I am against this, even though I have a large holding. We shouldn't be penalising the poor. My view is that we should be encouraging newcomers to Tek and shouldn't be putting up barriers to those from around the world, and to those in our own nations who are economically challenged. The more, the merrier in my book. The <1k solution doesn't stop microstaking and could make it worse since 1k+ could become the new microstake.

The linking of the staking % to the coin supply works well with HoboNickels, although HBN does also have a staking cap which is not being suggested here. I'll be away for the next 10 days, but hope to pop in occasionally when time allows.

I notice some strong feelings being aired, but let's keep this business-like. Getting into arguments could obscure what we are trying to do here.

Who is against the staking % being cut loose from the difficulty and linked to the coin supply?
Who prefers the the <1k solution?
walkdev
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March 07, 2016, 09:12:40 PM
 #5192

Let's press for a consensus and then put it to Thundertoe. After all Tek isn't a democracy. He decides what he thinks is the best way forward.

So who doesn't agree with a fix that includes decoupling the link between the percentage payout and the difficulty, and links the percentage payout to the coin supply?

I actually prefer the schema that Thundertoe had proposed, where anything <1K is not eligible for stake. Doesn't completely stop microstaking, but it certainly changes the game.

Since difficulty is a function of coin supply indirectly already, I am more in favor of the <1K thing. Maybe a flat rate of 5% up to 1K TEK, this way folks with small holding still have incentive, but anyone with quantity has motivation to coin control.

The <1K solutions single out the poor for low grade, or 0% staking. I am against this, even though I have a large holding. We shouldn't be penalising the poor. My view is that we should be encouraging newcomers to Tek and shouldn't be putting up barriers to those from around the world, and to those in our own nations who are economically challenged. The more, the merrier in my book.

The linking of the staking % to the coin supply works well with HoboNickels, although HBN does also have a staking cap which is not being suggested here. I'll be away for the next 10 days, but hope to pop in occasionally when time allows.

I notice some strong feelings being aired, but let's keep this business-like. Getting into arguments could obscure what we are trying to do here.

Who is against the staking % being cut loose from the difficulty and linked to the coin supply?
Who prefers the the <1k solutiion?

I'm with Biomech... Or something similar, where people are 'rewarded' for blocks of 1k or over with a higher rate.

The number of blocks that stake at about 30 TEK, producing two blocks of, for example, 18 TEK which go on to produce 4 blocks of 11 TEK, etc... It's nuts. That's precisely why the difficulty has been growing every month and hitting levels that I've not seen since I started investing in TEK well over a year ago... Anything that falls under the 1k threshold could carry a reduced interest rate without pushing the difficulty up so much...

At least that way, the beginner gets something per month. And with TEK at the current price (let's assume that 500k = 1BTC, which for the sake of argument might be $500...), 1k would equate to about $1 - doesn't seem to be too unreasonable an investment for someone new to TEK, does it?
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March 07, 2016, 09:49:12 PM
 #5193

If you have millions of Tek, you can afford to split a sizeable portion into masses of 1k+ blocks and still punch heavy with big stakers. That makes staking skewed in the favour of the larger account holders. It shouldn't be too difficult for anyone who is proficient in putting a command line together to recombine and split back into 1k+ stakes.

Regarding the proposal of a reduced rate of interest of 5% for others, we should be prepared to take that medicine ourselves ... 5% for all, and a timetabled sliding scale leading towards it. How would that go down with all you high rollers? That wouldn't solve the microstaking issue, but it would go a long way to putting a break on the coin supply.

So, that's three so far who have come out in favour of the <1k barrier. Not many.

Nobody, out of the millions of people worldwide, has yet come out totally against linking % payouts to the coin supply, so it looks like that solution is way ahead (see how things can be skewed the other way Wink).

So let's hear it from those who are against the %/coin supply link. Knowing that, I suggest we then look at what else could be viable, including <1k+.
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March 07, 2016, 11:54:28 PM
 #5194

If you have millions of Tek, you can afford to split a sizeable portion into masses of 1k+ blocks and still punch heavy with big stakers. That makes staking skewed in the favour of the larger account holders. It shouldn't be too difficult for anyone who is proficient in putting a command line together to recombine and split back into 1k+ stakes.

Regarding the proposal of a reduced rate of interest of 5% for others, we should be prepared to take that medicine ourselves ... 5% for all, and a timetabled sliding scale leading towards it. How would that go down with all you high rollers? That wouldn't solve the microstaking issue, but it would go a long way to putting a break on the coin supply.

So, that's three so far who have come out in favour of the <1k barrier. Not many.

Nobody, out of the millions of people worldwide, has yet come out totally against linking difficulty to the coin supply, so it looks like that solution is way ahead (see how things can be skewed the other way Wink).

So let's hear it from those who are against the %/coin supply link. Knowing that, I suggest we then look at what else could be viable, including <1k+.

I have said before, that as a large holder, I am in favor of controlling inflation, even if it means lowering the interest rate.

If you took a million TEK and broke it into 1000 Tek blocks, you would have 1000 of them. A few larger holders staking that way, and you have micro-staking all over again. Just on a larger scale. This is a stop gap at best.

Lets face it, at current prices, 1000Tek is worth a whopping .80 cents US.  I really don't think 'the poor' who have less then 1000 are going to be complaining much. Dig into your penny bank and bring up your stock of coin, or don't invest in TEK.  That being said the <1000 threshold is not going to work for the reason above. We need a better solution.

So ideas.  1) Stake amount is based on how long you wait for maturity.  If we go to a flat rate, we could give a bonus for leaving it in a wallet longer. Such as, 10% if you stake in 30 days, 25% if in 60 or more? And no difficulty.  just round numbers and throwing out ideas.  2) if you attach to supply, how is it regulated?  Any way to attach percentage to trade volume? As long as volume is up so is interest? When it drops, so does interest?

The quandary here is: if we cut the stake too much, nobody will want the coin. If we don't cut it enough, runaway inflation and nobody will want the coin.  The other thing I would like to see fixed is the ability for someone to game the system. This is happening with the difficulty situation, we need to nip this once and for all.

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March 08, 2016, 12:06:12 AM
 #5195

I've not paid a great deal of attention to other NovaCoin derived coins for a long time. What have other coins done to address this? I know for HYP, Presstab reworked the whole POS scheme to the point that it's not even really based on NVCS anymore.

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March 08, 2016, 12:28:58 AM
 #5196

Unlike TEK that has a sliding reward % scale based on difficulty, HYP has a fixed reward % with a max cap of 1000HYP/stake.  It's a different way of getting to the same place.  HYP was originally 750% annual return and blocks would stake in 9 days.  Now difficulty is so high (ie HYP diff equal ~130, compared to TEKs high diff (lol) of 0.02) that people make blocks of over 20,000 and they can still take 30 or 60 or more days to stake...its nowhere near 750% any more.  Just like TEK is likley not going to be 500%/year anymore. 

The difference from TEK is HYP supporters know that high difficulty = high security...for some reason TEK supporters can't seem to see past their own 40% reward.  Even at current TEK diff it takes me like 12 seconds to stake my blocks so I only open my wallet 1 or 2 times per month....hassle free for me so I like that but it is pretty useless to TEK network support.  Compare that to my HYP wallets that run 24/7 desperately competing to stake blocks...I am providing much more suppport to HYP network in terms of peers and security.

I think TEK works pretty good as is.  Even getting 10% on a stake at current diff is still over 100% annual.  You have to look at POS mining like POW mining.  The GPU mining rig I bought for $2000 in 2013 that gave me 5 LTC/day wouldn't give me a squirt of piss now...why...difficulty has gone up from more miners and faster miners.  Also most pow coins have an emission curve...less coins/block as time goes on.  Inflation control is important in POS coins too.

If anything I'd support a re-ramping of the reward to difficulty scale so the the decrease in % is slower compared to difficulty increase but keep in mind more rewards is more inflation and price/TEK will just likely decrease.  All it will do is increase the fun factor of watching your balance increase...which is pretty fun.
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March 08, 2016, 02:04:58 AM
 #5197

imo:

1.  Eliminating staking for small stakeholders also eliminates their desire to use and support Tek.  (Consider them as potential users, instead of stakeholders.)  Unless Tek is used for something other than increasing stakeholder holdings, it will die ... as many other coins did which had no actual real-world usage.

2.  Any coin should treat all users the same.

3.  Tek cannot continue increasing the supply without bounds, or very soon -- at 10% or 40% -- there is infinite supply and zero value.

Basing the stake rate on the coin supply deals with all these issues.  Everybody stakes, everybody is treated the same, and the coin supply cannot increase to a point where the coin has zero value.



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March 08, 2016, 04:02:14 AM
 #5198

Targeting those 1k below will not fix it , as I'm sure there are many legitimate holder not mirco staking , with less than 1k . Any ways those ms have formed blocks with 1700-2000 you can check this using  presstab explorer. Even if u did target 1k below they will just readjustment buying a 30 day free period and they will be back at it

Is it possible to detect if a single wallet that has multiple address covering a spread of days , and force it to recombine into a single block , so that all matured coin will stake together and get combined into a single block , if they would like to split block on their own it would burn a tiny fraction of the coin , or make penalty for splitting block under a set of rules ,

Just thinking out loud . I may be wrong!!
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March 08, 2016, 01:07:18 PM
 #5199

Again, I don't want runaway inflation, but I also don't want Bitmaster, or whomever else is micro-staking to be the only ones who can get a decent return on their investment because they have figured out a way to game the coin.

I think that difficulty is a mistake.  It is something that is user controllable.  If we are going to have a sliding scale for interest, it should be attached to something that folks cannot monkey with.

Or, just flat rate the coin and be done.
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March 08, 2016, 03:37:59 PM
 #5200

Why do so many think a high pos diff is such a big deal? I think it’s the only instrument TEK has against out of control inflation. Forget about the micro stakers. They are not the problem. Inflation is, if you look a little further down the road... 

HBN & CAP: F1PressF1PCxEyESGk6Fe1om1RfiHqX5gg
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