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Author Topic: Real Time Socialist Train Wreck (again) Happening Now in Venezuela  (Read 29476 times)
Wilikon
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November 11, 2013, 08:23:22 AM
 #1

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/11/09/venezuela-seizes-stores/3486581/

Venezuelan military seizes major retail chain

Thousands of Venezuelans lined up outside the country's equivalent of Best Buy, a chain of electronics stores known as Daka, hoping for a bargain after the socialist government forced the company to charge customers "fair" prices.

President Nicolás Maduro ordered a military "occupation" of the company's five stores as he continues the government's crackdown on an "economic war" it says is being waged against the country, with the help of Washington.

Members of Venezuela's National Guard, some of whom carried assault rifles, kept order at the stores as bargain hunters rushed to get inside.

"I want a Sony plasma television for the house," said Amanda Lisboa, 34, a business administrator, who had waited seven hours already outside one Caracas store. "It's going to be so cheap!"

Televisions were the most in-demand item in the line outside one Caracas store, though people waited more than eight hours for fridges, washing machines, sewing machines and other imported appliances.

Water and snacks were being sold outside the store by savvy Venezuelans keen to profit from the commotion. Happy customers weaved giant television screens and other items back to their cars through the crowds.

Images circulating online as well as reports by local media appeared to show one Daka store in the country's central city of Valencia being looted.

"I have no love for this government," said Gabriela Campo, 33, a businesswoman, hoping to take home a cut-price television and fridge. "They're doing this for nothing but political reasons, in time for December's elections."

Maduro faces municipal elections on Dec. 8. His popularity has dropped significantly in recent months, with shortages of basic items such as chicken, milk and toilet paper as well as soaring inflation, at 54.3% over the past 12 months.

Economists are expecting a devaluation soon after the election, likely leading to even higher inflation.

The opposition, which has long struggled to gain ground against the country's socialist government, is hoping that the elections will be seen as a referendum against Maduro.

The president, who took over from Hugo Chávez in April 2013, appeared on state television Friday calling for the "occupation" of the chain, which employs some 500 staff.

"This is for the good of the nation," Maduro said. "Leave nothing on the shelves, nothing in the warehouses … Let nothing remain in stock!"

The president was accompanied on television by images of officials checking prices of 32-inch plasma televisions.

Daka's store managers, according to Maduro, have been arrested and are being held by the country's security services. Neither Daka nor the government responded to requests for comment.

Maduro has long blamed the opposition for waging an economic war on the country though critics are adamant that government price controls, enacted by Chávez a decade ago, are the real cause for the dire state of the economy.

With such a shortage of hard currency for importers and regular citizens, dollars sell on the black market for nine times their official, government-set value. Prices, at shops such as Daka, are set according to this black market, hence the government's crackdown.

Chávez often theatrically expropriated or seized assets from more than 1,000 companies during his 14-year tenure. This, among other difficulties for foreign firms, led to a severe lack of foreign investment in the country which, according to OPEC, has the world's largest oil reserves.

"This is more like government-sanctioned looting," said 42-year-old Caracas-based engineer Carlos Rivero. "What stops them going into pharmacies, supermarkets and shopping malls?"

Not all were for the bargain hunting. One taxi driver screamed at the waiting crowds as he went past a Caracas branch of Daka, accusing them of "abusing" the system.
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November 11, 2013, 09:55:24 PM
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Water and snacks were being sold outside the store by savvy Venezuelans keen to profit from the commotion.

See? Even when socialism is at its worst, capitalism pops up for a moment to make a couple of quick bucks and stick a middle finger at people like Maduro.
This is why capitalism always wins in the end - even a thousand Lenins, Stalins and Maduros will never change the human desire to seize opportunities to make money.

We're hunting for Leviathan, and Bitcoin is our harpoon.
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November 12, 2013, 12:48:34 AM
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Water and snacks were being sold outside the store by savvy Venezuelans keen to profit from the commotion.

See? Even when socialism is at its worst, capitalism pops up for a moment to make a couple of quick bucks and stick a middle finger at people like Maduro.
This is why capitalism always wins in the end - even a thousand Lenins, Stalins and Maduros will never change the human desire to seize opportunities to make money.

The biggest contradiction is Venezuela has so much oil and their ladies win the Miss Universe contest almost all the time, two of the biggest capitalist tools on this planet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mRZ64Rr8Ac  (poor quality video)


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November 12, 2013, 02:34:40 AM
 #4

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/V/VENEZUELA_SICK_HEALTH_CARE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-11-06-00-10-00

MARACAY, Venezuela (AP) — Evelina Gonzalez was supposed to undergo cancer surgery in July following chemotherapy but wound up shuttling from hospital to hospital in search of an available operating table. On the crest of her left breast, a mocha-colored tumor doubled in size and now bulges through her white spandex tank top.

Gonzalez is on a list of 31 breast cancer patients waiting to have tumors removed at one of Venezuela’s biggest medical facilities, Maracay’s Central Hospital. But like legions of the sick across the country, she’s been neglected by a health care system doctors say is collapsing after years of deterioration.

Doctors at the hospital sent home 300 cancer patients last month when supply shortages and overtaxed equipment made it impossible for them to perform non-emergency surgeries.

Driving the crisis in health care are the same forces that have left Venezuelans scrambling to find toilet paper, milk and automobile parts. Economists blame government mismanagement and currency controls set by the late President Hugo Chavez for inflation pushing 50 percent annually. The government controls the dollars needed to buy medical supplies and has simply not made enough available.
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November 15, 2013, 06:35:57 AM
 #5

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/15/us-venezuela-economy-idUSBRE9AD1F320131115?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews

Nov 14 (Reuters) – Venezuela’s socialist government has arrested more than 100 “bourgeois” businessmen in a crackdown on alleged price-gouging at hundreds of shops and companies since the weekend, President Nicolas Maduro said on Thursday.

“They are barbaric, these capitalist parasites!” Maduro thundered in the latest of his lengthy daily speeches. “We have more than 100 of the bourgeoisie behind bars at the moment.”

The successor to the late Hugo Chavez also said his government was preparing a law to limit Venezuelan businesses’ profits to between 15 percent and 30 percent.

Officials say unscrupulous companies have been hiking prices of electronics and other goods more than 1,000 percent. Critics say failed socialist economic policies and restricted access to foreign currency are behind Venezuela’s runaway inflation.

“Goodyear has to lower its prices even more, 15 percent is not enough, the inspectors have go there straightaway,” Maduro said in his evening address, sending officials to check local operations of the U.S.-based tire manufacturer.

Since the weekend, soldiers and inspectors have gone into 1,400 shops, taken over operations at an electronics firm and a battery-making company, and rounded up a handful of looters.
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November 15, 2013, 07:25:38 AM
 #6

Well , I heard of this happening before and my grandpa told me about how he experienced it himself.
It first started with the kulaks in Russian , and in our country after the second world war.

You have 2 cows? Your a kulak , a disgrace to the society we should take the two cows and give them to the others that all day are sitting in the yard counting clouds.
They were seen like people sucking the blood of their fellow communists workers. Siberia !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What happened in reality?

After being resettled to Siberia and Kazakhstan, many kulaks managed to renew their prosperity. Their fortitude was the basis for recriminations against some sections of NKVD that were in charge of the "labor settlements" (тpyдoвыe пoceлeния) in 1938-1939, as they were considered to have permitted "kulakization" (oкyлaчивaниe) of the "labor settlers" (тpyдoпoceлeнцeв). The new settlers' ability to exceed the prosperity of the neighboring kolkhozes was attributed to "wrecking" and "criminal negligence".
From wikipedia.
Wilikon
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November 15, 2013, 04:13:15 PM
 #7

Well , I heard of this happening before and my grandpa told me about how he experienced it himself.
It first started with the kulaks in Russian , and in our country after the second world war.

You have 2 cows? Your a kulak , a disgrace to the society we should take the two cows and give them to the others that all day are sitting in the yard counting clouds.
They were seen like people sucking the blood of their fellow communists workers. Siberia !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What happened in reality?

After being resettled to Siberia and Kazakhstan, many kulaks managed to renew their prosperity. Their fortitude was the basis for recriminations against some sections of NKVD that were in charge of the "labor settlements" (тpyдoвыe пoceлeния) in 1938-1939, as they were considered to have permitted "kulakization" (oкyлaчивaниe) of the "labor settlers" (тpyдoпoceлeнцeв). The new settlers' ability to exceed the prosperity of the neighboring kolkhozes was attributed to "wrecking" and "criminal negligence".
From wikipedia.

That is why I wrote "(again)" in the thread title. Those are signs of the upcoming death spiral the people voted for.
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November 15, 2013, 06:48:50 PM
 #8


"We will guarantee everyone has a plasma television." Nicolas Maduro, leader of Venezuela.

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November 15, 2013, 09:20:57 PM
 #9

Ridiculous, socialism has been proven time and time again to fail. People keep falling for the same mistakes, if you don't learn from history you are doomed to repeat it.
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November 16, 2013, 05:16:32 AM
 #10

Ridiculous, socialism has been proven time and time again to fail. People keep falling for the same mistakes, if you don't learn from history you are doomed to repeat it.

I agree. Plasma TVs are a terrible choice in 2013  Wink
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November 17, 2013, 03:55:57 AM
 #11

President Nicolás Maduro ordered a military "occupation" of the company's five stores as he continues the government's crackdown on an "economic war" it says is being waged against the country, with the help of Washington.
So, this is impossible?

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I N D X
Wilikon
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November 17, 2013, 09:06:16 PM
 #12

President Nicolás Maduro ordered a military "occupation" of the company's five stores as he continues the government's crackdown on an "economic war" it says is being waged against the country, with the help of Washington.
So, this is impossible?

Is it possible the CIA is trying to destabilize Venezuela? Is it possible the CIA tried to poison Chavez and succeeded by creating his cancer? All those could be true but...

Occam's razor: when faced with competing hypotheses, select the one that makes the fewest assumptions.
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November 17, 2013, 09:53:11 PM
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I really don't get what is going on in Venezuela. What are the government actors playing at?

It seems that most of the population there is mind-bogglingly stupid. They want to raid all the markets and retailers with no concern who supplies them the next day. Surprising, but still conceivable. But I can't really make sense of the government playing along. Looting shops has such a fast negative feedback that it should be a politically worthless move -- and this Maduro guy became president only this year.

From what I understand, the election victory was narrow. Even assuming the government's goal is solely to redirect funds via corruption, this isn't even close to an effective strategy. How do the players profit from this scale of economic devastation? Or did they somehow manage to get actual "crash and burn" mentally ill people into the leadership? It looks like a lossy game for everyone, which is weird. Usually there is someone who profits if there's this scale of damage. Even in Thailand's rice madness, a significant portion of the population gets a net benefit, even if at absurd costs to everyone else.

 Huh
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November 17, 2013, 11:05:21 PM
 #14

I really don't get what is going on in Venezuela. What are the government actors playing at?

It seems that most of the population there is mind-bogglingly stupid. They want to raid all the markets and retailers with no concern who supplies them the next day. Surprising, but still conceivable. But I can't really make sense of the government playing along. Looting shops has such a fast negative feedback that it should be a politically worthless move -- and this Maduro guy became president only this year.

From what I understand, the election victory was narrow. Even assuming the government's goal is solely to redirect funds via corruption, this isn't even close to an effective strategy. How do the players profit from this scale of economic devastation? Or did they somehow manage to get actual "crash and burn" mentally ill people into the leadership? It looks like a lossy game for everyone, which is weird. Usually there is someone who profits if there's this scale of damage. Even in Thailand's rice madness, a significant portion of the population gets a net benefit, even if at absurd costs to everyone else.

 Huh

Logical thoughts are not needed. That's the president Mad-uro way...
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November 18, 2013, 01:40:31 AM
 #15

This is why capitalism always wins in the end - even a thousand Lenins, Stalins and Maduros will never change the human desire to seize opportunities to make money.
Don't be so confident, advancements in biotechnology and the government like under Mao Zedong or Pol Pot could make human desire for profit just as article in the history schoolbook Grin
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November 18, 2013, 04:11:17 AM
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This is why capitalism always wins in the end - even a thousand Lenins, Stalins and Maduros will never change the human desire to seize opportunities to make money.
Don't be so confident, advancements in biotechnology and the government like under Mao Zedong or Pol Pot could make human desire for profit just as article in the history schoolbook Grin

Judging by your other thread, I'm not sure if you're serious Sad

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November 18, 2013, 04:32:23 AM
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This is why capitalism always wins in the end - even a thousand Lenins, Stalins and Maduros will never change the human desire to seize opportunities to make money.
Don't be so confident, advancements in biotechnology and the government like under Mao Zedong or Pol Pot could make human desire for profit just as article in the history schoolbook Grin

Judging by your other thread, I'm not sure if you're serious Sad
May be I have mistaken mentioning Mao - I thought one-child policy in China and forced abortions, which in fact started in 1979, i.e. after Mao death.
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November 18, 2013, 04:35:43 AM
 #18

May be I have mistaken mentioning Mao - I thought one-child policy in China and forced abortions, which in fact started in 1979, i.e. after Mao death.

You're aware that Mao's system and leadership led to the deaths of tens of millions of his own people, yes?

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November 18, 2013, 04:38:23 AM
 #19

You're aware that Mao's system and leadership led to the deaths of tens of millions of his own people, yes?
It is obvious fact. As well as Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Pol Pot, Pinochet and other totalitarian dictators.
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November 18, 2013, 04:43:30 AM
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You're aware that Mao's system and leadership led to the deaths of tens of millions of his own people, yes?
It is obvious fact. As well as Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Pol Pot, Pinochet and other totalitarian dictators.

All right great, just making sure you weren't actually advocating for this to happen again Grin  I've met a fair share of people who see these systems and what they've accomplished and say, "but this time it'll be better!"  I once heard a guy say, "Stalin's death count isn't even that big, and besides all those people who died were rebels anyway."  That one really hit me in the nads.

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