[Weexchange issue] The fall of Ukyo III - Updates and references

[g83]

Dont say two weeks in here 

[stonehoo]

2 weeks after another 2 weeks.... ukyo is red now

[SOSLOVE868]

Guys you need to give it up. The BTC is lost and Ukyo is just bullshitting to stop the witch hunt.

More speculation. Whatever your intuition and experience tells you, eh?

Dude, if he had the BTC he would have paid the withdrawal's already.  There isn't any valid excuses left now so he stays quite and uses the tried and tested "two weeks" method.

Facts:
He hasn't offered any proof of funds. 
He hasn't honoured any withdrawal requests.
He hasn't redeemed any Ukyo loan
He hasn't paid any ukyo loan divs

Please provide any facts/evidence to the contrary.

Hi, Dude ,Can we delegate a  layer to help us get back our BTC??

The problem is if there is no funds then lawyers will not help.  If Ukyo acted fraudulently then he might spend some time in the clink. 
I hope I am wrong...

I have no given up on Ukyo yet. I am going to give him a little more time and wait for his big announcement. (I actually know what his big announcement is, and if it is true and going to happen, it is very good news for all of us).

If it doesn't happen though, I will have no choice but to hire a lawyer. Presently, the outstanding amount owed to me by ukyo.loan is nearly $250,000. That is definitely an amount I can not let slide. Fortunately, I have plenty of other bitcoins used to fund a lawyer if necessary.

Like I said, though, I have talked to ukyo occasionally on IRC and have not given up on him yet. I'll give it another 2 weeks for now and see what happens.

Migo, when you decided go through the law process, please add me together with you ,I got personally 200K USD in his hand...

[pascal257]

Migo, when you decided go through the law process, please add me together with you ,I got personally 200K USD in his hand...

We should set him a reasonable deadline and consider legal actions if he does not comply.

[SebastianJu]

Migo, when you decided go through the law process, please add me together with you ,I got personally 200K USD in his hand...

We should set him a reasonable deadline and consider legal actions if he does not comply.

What is reasonable? For me it looks like he is working on it. And i wait for more than a month already. But i fear when legal actions come into play what will happen. Raiding his server? Block it for a year until the legal case is solved? I even can imagine these policemen format the wallet disc because they dont have a clue.
At least i would say that legal actions should be the very last step. Before you do it contact ukyo on IRC. Username ukto or now mostly Ukyo.

[ffssixtynine]

At least i would say that legal actions should be the very last step. Before you do it contact ukyo on IRC. Username ukto or now mostly Ukyo.

+1

People suggesting legal action whilst there are clearly attempts being made with others in the Bitcoin community to remedy the situation would benefit from professional legal advice. No lawyer worth anything will go forward with an action at this point because it's a worst case scenario - expensive, time consuming, difficult, and frequently with absolutely nothing at the end of it. Anyone who did require their lawyer to push something (at this point) would expect their lawyer to write to Ukyo (and possibly Neo later for fact confirmation) before doing anything otherwise you're wasting your time and more of your money. It's likely the process required.

You do it as a last resort, when you believe are significant assets, and you threaten it when you don't think genuine attempts are being made.

Post Neo announcement at least, any relevant neutral (i.e. a lawyer) would see that they are. You have a major bitcoin company, the major start-up in Cyprus and who are working with directly with their financial regulators and with KPMG, helping ukyo out in some form. There is zero chance they can get involved in anything they see as dodgy. It's not relevant that the full story isn't public.

Also, anyone thinking they can 'get in first' doesn't understand how the law works. It is not first come first served, whether it ends up in court or not. Anyone thinking they can hassle ukyo into paying them first is going to fail because he cannot give preference legally. We all 'win' or we all lose, we're in it together. We just all want to be repaid in full, end of story.

As for how long - I'm giving it two weeks from Neo's announcement for some real progress.

However angry and pissed off we all may be, however much we don't like it, this is the situation.

[crumbs]

...
Anyone who did require their lawyer to push something (at this point) would need their lawyer to speak to Neo & Ukyo before doing anything ...

You guys are really doing more damage than good here.  To be clear, i'm not suggesting that legal action is warranted.  But a lawyer having to speak to Neo?  Why pray tell?  And "...policemen format the wallet disc because they dont have a clue." ??  Really?
I hope you guys know your audience better than i do, because to me it seems you don't thing too much of their intelligence. 

[Stuartuk]

...
Anyone who did require their lawyer to push something (at this point) would need their lawyer to speak to Neo & Ukyo before doing anything ...

You guys are really doing more damage than good here.  To be clear, i'm not suggesting that legal action is warranted.  But a lawyer having to speak to Neo?  Why pray tell?  And "...policemen format the wallet disc because they dont have a clue." ??  Really?
I hope you guys know your audience better than i do, because to me it seems you don't thing too much of their intelligence.  

I'm sure they do 'thing' about their intelligence a plenty. Major Lolz

You always come up with the goods crumbs. Ever thought of using your brain for a change?

[Stuartuk]

Anyone who did require their lawyer to push something (at this point) would need their lawyer to speak to Neo & Ukyo before doing anything otherwise you're wasting your time and more of your money.

Absolutely correct. Neo are clearly partners about to take a controlling influence if not complete ownership. Who is your lawyer going to sue? Ukyo is on his way out of the door so you do not have the option to take him on. While this is in flux there is nothing to do. It will be resolved before your lawyer could draw up any papers and charge you an arm and a leg to do so anyway. So chillax. And don't listen to the illiterate Gremlin above.

Still lolling!

[SebastianJu]

...
Anyone who did require their lawyer to push something (at this point) would need their lawyer to speak to Neo & Ukyo before doing anything ...

You guys are really doing more damage than good here.  To be clear, i'm not suggesting that legal action is warranted.  But a lawyer having to speak to Neo?  Why pray tell?  And "...policemen format the wallet disc because they dont have a clue." ??  Really?
I hope you guys know your audience better than i do, because to me it seems you don't thing too much of their intelligence. 

I think ffssixtynine didnt mean that they should let a lawyer speak with NEO. He meant in case that someone goes so far the lawyer had to do this. Collecting info is crucial and a lawyer that wouldnt do this would be strange.
Regarding formatting... most policemen are similarly internet and tech affine than politicians. So hand over an encrypted harddisc then most of them wont have a clue and think its a new disc. At least one might hope that this changed in the last years but i still can imagine that such things happen when the wrong policemen is doing the job. In the past policemen can be very sure that every raid is successful since nearly every pc has anything copied on it that should be copyrighted. And for private persons your chance is big that you never see your equipment back. The police is using it if they can use it or auction it. At least thats how it goes in germany.
So yes... its not hard for me to imagine that one of these guys get such a disc and think it needs a formatting to be useable.
But i admit the chance should be low when its done by the correct persons. It was only a worst case scenario...

[crumbs]

...
Anyone who did require their lawyer to push something (at this point) would need their lawyer to speak to Neo & Ukyo before doing anything ...

You guys are really doing more damage than good here.  To be clear, i'm not suggesting that legal action is warranted.  But a lawyer having to speak to Neo?  Why pray tell?  And "...policemen format the wallet disc because they dont have a clue." ??  Really?
I hope you guys know your audience better than i do, because to me it seems you don't thing too much of their intelligence.  

I think ffssixtynine didnt mean that they should let a lawyer speak with NEO. He meant in case that someone goes so far the lawyer had to do this. Collecting info is crucial and a lawyer that wouldnt do this would be strange.
Regarding formatting... most policemen are similarly internet and tech affine than politicians. So hand over an encrypted harddisc then most of them wont have a clue and think its a new disc. At least one might hope that this changed in the last years but i still can imagine that such things happen when the wrong policemen is doing the job. In the past policemen can be very sure that every raid is successful since nearly every pc has anything copied on it that should be copyrighted. And for private persons your chance is big that you never see your equipment back. The police is using it if they can use it or auction it. At least thats how it goes in germany.
So yes... its not hard for me to imagine that one of these guys get such a disc and think it needs a formatting to be useable.
But i admit the chance should be low when its done by the correct persons. It was only a worst case scenario...

US has pretty nasty & unfair asset forfeiture laws, and i'm sure many beat cops aren't too computer savvy (though if a cop knows enough to format a drive,he should know enough not to do it).  Computer crime is (guessing here) more common than pickpockets, and even the dumbest beat cops are taught *procedure*.  Stuff like that is taught by rote & requires no intelligence.  Computer crimes, of course, aren't handled by those cops -- they're handled by the FEDs, their Cyber Crime department.  Some of those kids even went to college
All this is irrelevant to this thread, i don't think bringing the law in is going to help anyone.
The corollary of this, of course, is:  If now is not a good time to bring in the law, in the future it will only become more pointless.
When someone picks your pocket, screaming "stop thief!" might be pointless, but screaming it tomorrow is *definitely* pointless.

[ffssixtynine]

Anyone who did require their lawyer to push something (at this point) would need their lawyer to speak to Neo & Ukyo before doing anything otherwise you're wasting your time and more of your money.

Absolutely correct. Neo are clearly partners about to take a controlling influence if not complete ownership. Who is your lawyer going to sue? Ukyo is on his way out of the door so you do not have the option to take him on. While this is in flux there is nothing to do. It will be resolved before your lawyer could draw up any papers and charge you an arm and a leg to do so anyway. So chillax. And don't listen to the illiterate Gremlin above.

You're making major assumptions there mate. Neo are there to help ukyo, nothing more than that as far as we know. Ukyo is in charge, no one else.

Crumbs, one area I've seen you wrong on frequently is legal stuff. On other things you're pretty good. In this case your lawyer would most likely suggest sending letter to ukyo as the first step. It'd then be up to ukyo how to respond. They could also, optionally, try and arrange to get further information. Again, this would have to start with ukyo but may involve one or more third parties latterly. To be fair, it should have read Ukyo and then possibly Neo (will edit).

In the time all this takes, we'll likely know what's happening anyway but people will do whatever they feel the need to do.

PS I don't think police messing up computers is the thing to be worrying about! Also, there is no evidence of criminality at this point and what you're actually doing is contacting Bitfunder or WeEx or whatever. It is not Ukyo personally (the loan may be different).

[moribana]

At least i would say that legal actions should be the very last step. Before you do it contact ukyo on IRC. Username ukto or now mostly Ukyo.

People suggesting legal action whilst there are clearly attempts being made with others in the Bitcoin community to remedy the situation would benefit from professional legal advice. No lawyer worth anything will go forward with an action at this point because it's

Do we have any clear evidence that people are actually working on resolving the problem? Or is this just the same sort of "entertainment for the masses to buy time" that was provided by the Labcoin team before they disappeared for good? I think that given the circumstances, and the style of communication from the parties involved, this is a legitimate question that many people ask at this point.

[ffssixtynine]

Anonymity has a lot to do with the difference. Ukyo is anything but and has actually been around virtually every day. Neo have made a statement that they are helping him so yes, there is independent evidence - that's why a statement was made, even tho they are  limited on the detail they can provide. They have only just made a statement and warned that US hols would hold things up, give them a chance. If you need to know more about neo, read up on them. They are as legit as they come. If they are helping, efforts are being made.

[adara]

Now ffssixtynine, are you willing to put your balls on the table for both Ukyo and Neobee?
The statement is completely empty and provides no evidence at all. It is just an attempt to gain time and reflects that they are probably both full of shit.
As a Weex user you should be seeking your own legal advice instead of following the legal advice of your adversary.
If you have any personal EVIDENCE of the work that's being done please provide it.
Otherwise it very much looks like fraud, an empty wallet, and user funds being diverted to so called "reserves" without their consent, very probably because of luck of enough funds.
Now, that is illegal boy!
Defend yourself boy, you will never reach the carrot they have placed on you!

[ffssixtynine]

I've made my position very clear adara. The only important thing is fixing this mess.

The only person at fault here is ukyo, not those trying to help.

[adara]

The only important thing is fixing this mess.
The only person at fault here is ukyo, not those trying to help.

Agree on both of those.
However Weex users should not be taken hostage of issues between Ukyo and Neo. Neo statement is empty and shady to say the least and has not provided any evidence of work.

[ffssixtynine]

However Weex users should not be taken hostage of issues between Ukyo and Neo. Neo statement is empty and shady to say the least and has not provided any evidence of work.

AFAIK they were only recently involved so need time to see how they can help. Hopefully that can happen next week. There is definitely nothing shady involved - all they've said is they are trying to help and will say more when they are able to. That's a positive, not a negative. The negative here is the situation in the first place, but don't let thoughts on that bleed into everything else.

[adara]

Do not agree with that at all unless an estimated time frame is given.
If you have access to Neo ask them about that.

[moribana]

However Weex users should not be taken hostage of issues between Ukyo and Neo. Neo statement is empty and shady to say the least and has not provided any evidence of work.

AFAIK they were only recently involved so need time to see how they can help. Hopefully that can happen next week. There is definitely nothing shady involved - all they've said is they are trying to help and will say more when they are able to. That's a positive, not a negative. The negative here is the situation in the first place, but don't let thoughts on that bleed into everything else.

There is at least one thing here that is shady. And that is the communication. If somebody says so little with so many words, it is suspicious. I would have had much more trust in Neo&Bee's involvement if they had just stated in two sentences that they were working on it and for legal reasons they could not reveal any more information.

But I hope that you are right and something is really happening that will eventually solve this problem.