NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[jl777]

Nxt isn't a product or service so you can't put it in that category.  It's a currency/ecosystem/protocol/whoknowswhat.  Paid advertising/marketing works really well with products and services.  You serve ad impressions to potential customers, a certain percentage click through to your landing page, a certain percentage of those convert and pay up.  It's lovely.  But it won't work like that with Nxt because it isn't a product or service.

...

It has to grow the same way Linux did.  The same way Bittorrent did.  The same way Bitcoin and Litecoin did.  First we need to build something awesome and then we can use clever tactics to get the word out.  Mass-marketing through paid advertising will not work.

+1!

My assumption is that we do have cool tech already.

Here is a test for you to try. Find an intelligent but non-programmer that you know. Give him $25 and tell him he needs to figure out how to purchase $25 of NXT. If you want to be helpful you can give him the URL of this thread.

Substitute this person you know with a typical person who is interested in crypto and is deciding whether they want to put a little money into NXT.

Tell me honestly that the current setup we have is within 10% of optimum. I know you like things to be close to optimal, why does it make sense to tweak the software until it is 99.99% perfect and leave the conversion process 99% inefficient?

Sounds illogical to me.

James

We are waiting for decentralized exchange and a professional peer review. Once we have that than it will be time to spend money on advertisement.

It will take time to fine tune a landing page that leads to new NXT stakeholder. Should we wait until decentralized exchange and peer review to start the process? Should we wait to determine if we want to fund this?

I am raising this now, because I sense we are within a month from having all the cool tech we need.

We need to have a streamlined path to convert people that are interested in NXT into becoming NXT stakeholders. Once we have such a streamlined path, we shouldn't just use it for organic traffic, but attach an affiliate payout so ALL website owners big and small can make money by linking to the NXT landing page.

This is internet marketing 101. I am totally confused why there is such resistance. Is there some unwritten code that says we have to make things as hard as possible for ourselves and new NXT'ers?

James

[wesleyh]

Ok, so two versions found:

https://github.com/swdunlop/WaspVM/blob/ce71767f5eea8d3768c7aba376c65ce8a13fdc73/vm/curve25519_i64.c
(looks to be unedited)


and https://github.com/swdunlop/WaspVM/blob/master/vm/curve25519_i64.c

[Anon136]

We are waiting for decentralized exchange and a professional peer review. Once we have that than it will be time to spend money on advertisement.

+1  ...waiting on the clients too!   

oh yes this also. so 3 things.

[Come-from-Beyond]

It was also up to date, I'm sure about it.

Well, if the message contained "U generated an incorrect block" then it's not an error.

[Damelon]

Been away for a while and just spent some time reading the thread again.

On marketing.

Definition: what are we talking about when talking about marketing?

It seems we have two objects are being discussed and confused: Nxt (system/framework) and applications of Nxt.

Both need a different approach. When confused, we get the non/mis-communication in the team.

My idea would be to do what we can now, which is two things at least:

- Market Nxt as the system. Target group at first would be people who are interested in new cryptos, and pushing the message that it's a system, not a coin. We get people to join in on that basis and make it appealing to be part of a new movement in cryptocurrency. Client development is in this group at first. The client is a must have condition for any mainstream marketing anyway.

- make a list of coming applications. We know what is coming and we know what people are working on (apps, messaging, torrenting programs etc etc etc.)

These applications cán be treated as products, whereas Nxt itself can't. It's hard to sell "the internet" for instance. It's "easy" to sell uses of the internet.

- We choose the applications that we think will get most attention. This will take analysis, but also a good working knowledge of what is coming. We focus on maximum of 3 things to push as hard as we can with all marketing tools available. We have people who can coordinate this and we create teams on a volunteer basis. Maybe we can offer perks to the team. Volunteers should be treasured.

This seems to give a framework where we can distinguish whát we are marketing and avoid confusion between Nxt (system) and the applications.

Makes sense?

Edit: a given here is that the applications are aimed at mainstream, so devs need to aim for userfriendliness and the products need to look good.

[jl777]

New NXT stakeholder with some NXT can't do anything with NXT?

I am a new stakeholder with some NXT, what can I do with them?

Play some silly gambling games? Do some intraday trading, which is a zero-sum game, except the bank always wins?
What else?

Are you saying that getting new NXT stakeholders is just a Ponzi scheme?

At this moment - yes. It's not necessarily a bad thing, it provides some growth in the beginning, but it should not be overdone.

Anyway, if you're just talking about creating some webpage then I am off topic here.

Still, don't we have enough friendly sites + wiki?

Show me URL that leads a person curious about NXT directly to becoming NXT stakeholder of $25+

Last I saw, the best we have to offer a person who wants to get some NXT is:
a) use exchanges (all of which have some issues and/or require BTC)
b) post in forum thread and somehow buy NXT directly

Tell me we understand the real world at least a little bit here. To get to 100,000+ NXT stakeholders, we need to expand beyond super technical forum regulars who already have BTC, to the typical intelligent person who uses the Internet.

Am I wrong?

James

[salsacz]

New blog posts:
How Nxt changed our Lives 1) Neonemu and his dog
(Life stories, will be in NxtMagazines in the future)

NXT volume history
(very little part of my Nxtmyths paper)

[wesleyh]

Ok, so two versions found:

https://github.com/swdunlop/WaspVM/blob/ce71767f5eea8d3768c7aba376c65ce8a13fdc73/vm/curve25519_i64.c
(looks to be unedited)


and https://github.com/swdunlop/WaspVM/blob/master/vm/curve25519_i64.c

Can you do anything with this CFB?

[S3MKi]

Any news from nexern?

[smartwart]

It will take time to fine tune a landing page that leads to new NXT stakeholder. Should we wait until decentralized exchange and peer review to start the process? Should we wait to determine if we want to fund this?

I am raising this now, because I sense we are within a month from having all the cool tech we need.

We need to have a streamlined path to convert people that are interested in NXT into becoming NXT stakeholders. Once we have such a streamlined path, we shouldn't just use it for organic traffic, but attach an affiliate payout so ALL website owners big and small can make money by linking to the NXT landing page.

This is internet marketing 101. I am totally confused why there is such resistance. Is there some unwritten code that says we have to make things as hard as possible for ourselves and new NXT'ers?

James

We could use the time till everything is ready to start and discuss your marketing concept?

[utopianfuture]

New NXT stakeholder with some NXT can't do anything with NXT?

I am a new stakeholder with some NXT, what can I do with them?

Play some silly gambling games? Do some intraday trading, which is a zero-sum game, except the bank always wins?
What else?

Are you saying that getting new NXT stakeholders is just a Ponzi scheme?

At this moment - yes. It's not necessarily a bad thing, it provides some growth in the beginning, but it should not be overdone.

Anyway, if you're just talking about creating some webpage then I am off topic here.

Still, don't we have enough friendly sites + wiki?

Show me URL that leads a person curious about NXT directly to becoming NXT stakeholder of $25+

Last I saw, the best we have to offer a person who wants to get some NXT is:
a) use exchanges (all of which have some issues and/or require BTC)
b) post in forum thread and somehow buy NXT directly

Tell me we understand the real world at least a little bit here. To get to 100,000+ NXT stakeholders, we need to expand beyond super technical forum regulars who already have BTC, to the typical intelligent person who uses the Internet.

Am I wrong?

James

Then take an initiative and do it. A lot of things around here are done that way. Nxtwiki, Nxt foundation webpage, nxtarea etc. are all done by individual initiatives first.

These kind of efforts should be the main mode of operation we are working under.

[NxtChg]

Show me URL that leads a person curious about NXT directly to becoming NXT stakeholder of $25+

...

Am I wrong?

No, you're not wrong, just ahead of the time

Until we have clients and at least some useful products/services it makes no sense to waste effort on landing pages and streamlined path.

What's the point of streamlined path to the current client and buggy server?
If anything, you will just create disappointment and lose many people forever, because there is no second chance to make a first impression.

So maybe it's a good thing that there is no "URL that leads a person directly to NXT"...

[landomata]

Been away for a while and just spent some time reading the thread again.

On marketing.

Definition: what are we talking about when talking about marketing?

It seems we have two objects are being discussed and confused: Nxt (system/framework) and applications of Nxt.

Both need a different approach. When confused, we get the non/mis-communication in the team.

My idea would be to do what we can now, which is two things at least:

- Market Nxt as the system. Target group at first would be people who are interested in new cryptos, and pushing the message that it's a system, not a coin. We get people to join in on that basis and make it appealing to be part of a new movement in cryptocurrency. Client development is in this group at first. The client is a must have condition for any mainstream marketing anyway.

- make a list of coming applications. We know what is coming and we know what people are working on (apps, messaging, torrenting programs etc etc etc.)

These applications cán be treated as products, whereas Nxt itself can't. It's hard to sell "the internet" for instance. It's "easy" to sell uses of the internet.

- We choose the applications that we think will get most attention. This will take analysis, but also a good working knowledge of what is coming. We focus on maximum of 3 things to push as hard as we can with all marketing tools available. We have people who can coordinate this and we create teams on a volunteer basis. Maybe we can offer perks to the team. Volunteers should be treasured.

This seems to give a framework where we can distinguish whát we are marketing and avoid confusion between Nxt (system) and the applications.

Makes sense?

Edit: a given here is that the applications are aimed at mainstream, so devs need to aim for userfriendliness and the products need to look good.

Perfect...i agree with this logic.

[bitcoinrocks]

It will take time to fine tune a landing page that leads to new NXT stakeholder. Should we wait until decentralized exchange and peer review to start the process?

Why wait?

Should we wait to determine if we want to fund this?

Fund landing page optimization?  With a bounty?  How much are you asking?

I am raising this now, because I sense we are within a month from having all the cool tech we need.

That sounds about right.

attach an affiliate payout so ALL website owners big and small can make money by linking to the NXT landing page.

It's not done that way in the world of non-proprietary open-source software and for good reason.  It won't work and it will make us look scammy.

This is internet marketing 101.

That class only applies to products and services.

[bitcoinpaul]

In my experience, whenever there is a crowded market, marketing and advertising is required to achieve top positions. How many alternatives are there to NXT? I am talking about from a non-technical end user's standpoint. As far as they are concerned, NXT is one of 100+ altcoins. With the strong bias against proof of stake coins, do you really think that NXT will achieve its full potential without marketing or advertising?

If Nxt can't be successful without paid marketing and advertising, then it can't be successful.

Please name me a single product in a crowded market that rose above all the others without marketing and sales.
Ripple is getting placements in top rated TV shows. Apple got placements in dozens of movies. I am not talking about any "shove", just a way to get on thousands of websites and getting value for money spent.

You're using the wrong model to look at this.  Nxt isn't a product or a service.  The Ripple example you brought up is perfect.  What has the TV spot done for them:

http://coinmarketcap.com/xrp_30.html

What is wrong about speeding that up? The first proof of stake coin that gets to 100,000 users and 10,000 websites will benefit from the network effect and nothing else would ever be able to catch up.

Nothing is wrong with that and nothing is wrong with online advertising, but it won't be effective in this case.

Specifically, what type of advertising and marketing are you planning?

I'm positive about marketing. We should tackle this thing as good as we can!

[Come-from-Beyond]

Ok, so two versions found:

https://github.com/swdunlop/WaspVM/blob/ce71767f5eea8d3768c7aba376c65ce8a13fdc73/vm/curve25519_i64.c
(looks to be unedited)


and https://github.com/swdunlop/WaspVM/blob/master/vm/curve25519_i64.c

Thank u for the link. Unfortunatelly, it doesn't contain an implementation of EC-KCDSA.

PS: BCNext modified original version of EC-KCDSA to increase requirements to hardware implementations of an Nxt wallet. This was supposed to increase protection of end users. But this also has some disadvantages, like inability to find other source code that does the same thing. I'm not even sure that the original contained such the code.

[bitcoinpaul]

...
Also, who owns these kind of addresses and how: 100000?

no one owns that. i guess who ever did that put it there for the miners some day. idk why they would though. thats a lot of nxt.

Why does nobody own it? Somebody had to create it?
...

You can send NXT to every account you like. It does not need to exist beforehand.

[jl777]

It will take time to fine tune a landing page that leads to new NXT stakeholder. Should we wait until decentralized exchange and peer review to start the process? Should we wait to determine if we want to fund this?

I am raising this now, because I sense we are within a month from having all the cool tech we need.

We need to have a streamlined path to convert people that are interested in NXT into becoming NXT stakeholders. Once we have such a streamlined path, we shouldn't just use it for organic traffic, but attach an affiliate payout so ALL website owners big and small can make money by linking to the NXT landing page.

This is internet marketing 101. I am totally confused why there is such resistance. Is there some unwritten code that says we have to make things as hard as possible for ourselves and new NXT'ers?

James

We could use the time till everything is ready to start and discuss your marketing concept?

It is a standard marketing concept. Get somebody that has shown interest in what you have and making it easy for them to give you money. As soon as somebody spends real money on something, there is a qualitative change, they become a NXT stakeholder and potentially an important contributor to the community.

We can't afford to lose these people like we are now. I am not a webpage designer, but there are people here who are. I am advocating creating a streamlined landing page that we can tag with our NXT acct numbers.

We then can put links in our blogs, websites, signatures, etc. in the "real world", traffic comes into landing page, a certain percentage converts and payout goes to referrer.

Its called affiliate marketing, CPA, referral marketing, very standard.

Once we have such a page, it allows all websites to make NXT by simply linking to the landing page. The more people that can make money with NXT, the better. Once they are making NXT by referring people, getting them to accept NXT on their website will be that much easier. The more websites that accept NXT, the better. The more NXT stakeholders, the better.

This is standard website marketing techniques. It also solves the problem of how to reward websites that are promoting NXT as statistically, the websites that are doing the best at promoting NXT will get the most conversions.

This turns marketing into a mathematical process. I would have thought that would be a no brainer here

James

[nxtgt]

At this moment - yes. It's not necessarily a bad thing, it provides some growth in the beginning, but it should not be overdone.

Anyway, if you're just talking about creating some webpage then I am off topic here.

Still, don't we have enough friendly sites + wiki?

Show me URL that leads a person curious about NXT directly to becoming NXT stakeholder of $25+

Last I saw, the best we have to offer a person who wants to get some NXT is:
a) use exchanges (all of which have some issues and/or require BTC)
b) post in forum thread and somehow buy NXT directly

Tell me we understand the real world at least a little bit here. To get to 100,000+ NXT stakeholders, we need to expand beyond super technical forum regulars who already have BTC, to the typical intelligent person who uses the Internet.

Am I wrong?

James

I hear you James and this is something that I've brought up a few times with no response. The argument here is for a streamlined approach to accessing the NXT network for non-technical users. For this technology to survive, the network effect is crucial and will require non-technical people to fill its ranks. The number of hoops people have to jump through is enough to put off the average user. It may seem easy to someone who is familiar with forums but is complicated to people outside of the conversation.

A big problem here though is that average Joe's won't really have use for it until merchants start accepting NXT. Should the marketing be targeted directly at current crypto users?

[opticalcarrier]

is there not an API to generate a token?  All Ive ever seen on this is from the GUI client