Bitmain launches the Z9 Equihash miner

[boxalex]

Maybe some not so good news here:

It seems Zcash is going with tweaking the algo and not forking for now. Result will be mostly the same, asic resistance .....

[Marvell2]

Maybe some not so good news here:

It seems Zcash is going with tweaking the algo and not forking for now. Result will be mostly the same, asic resistance .....

.
link?

[boxalex]

https://forum.z.cash/t/fpga-equihash-miner-developed-for-aion-network/28921/46

I crossposted the important part at the end of todays conversation there. For me it seems as the Foundation is bypassing Zookos (Zcash Co CEO) and (maybe tricked him) into an agreement to make tweaks for asic resistance. At least that's how i read it...

Yes, it’s an arms race. And guess what is a part of that arms race? GPU miners forking to get rid of ASICs. Just as it’s Bitmain’s right to make more powerful ASICs, it’s also our right to adjust the proof of work algorithm to make it more difficult for them to take over. GPU miners have the upper hand because it’s much easier to fork the algorithm than create new ASICs.

I should add that the only reason we’re still debating this is that Zooko – for whatever reason – doesn’t want to fork. The second he agrees to work on tweaking the proof of work algorithms, ASICs are finished.

[Kalyst69]

Zcash has made a partnership with Starkware Industries
Starkware Industries founders are old Zcash developers
Starkware Industries raised 6M$ from different investors including........... Bitmain

https://medium.com/@StarkWare/introducing-starkware-industries-4afa403999f9

https://ambcrypto.com/zcash-zec-enters-alliance-starkware/

[boxalex]

In case i'am correct with it and Zcash is doing some tweaking to the algo so they stay asic resistant i think it would be a good idea to
either write an open letter to Bitmain or send them official a proposal with the following:

- only to offer asics if it is garanteed that at least the majority of the coins stays on the algo and are asic friendly. ( or something in that meaning )
- if this is not garanteed it would be better if Bitmain just mines as they mine anyway.

While i purchased only 1x Z9 i was indeed aware of the risk, but many for sure are not or even purchased larger amounts.

[Kalyst69]

https://forum.z.cash/t/fpga-equihash-miner-developed-for-aion-network/28921/46

I crossposted the important part at the end of todays conversation there. For me it seems as the Foundation is bypassing Zookos (Zcash Co CEO) and (maybe tricked him) into an agreement to make tweaks for asic resistance. At least that's how i read it...

Yes, it’s an arms race. And guess what is a part of that arms race? GPU miners forking to get rid of ASICs. Just as it’s Bitmain’s right to make more powerful ASICs, it’s also our right to adjust the proof of work algorithm to make it more difficult for them to take over. GPU miners have the upper hand because it’s much easier to fork the algorithm than create new ASICs.

I should add that the only reason we’re still debating this is that Zooko – for whatever reason – doesn’t want to fork. The second he agrees to work on tweaking the proof of work algorithms, ASICs are finished.

How I understand it means that if Zooko will agree to fork, then ASICs will be finished but it's still not the case

[boxalex]

Zcash has made a partnership with Starkware Industries
Starkware Industries founders are old Zcash developers
Starkware Industries raised 6M$ from different investors including........... Bitmain

https://medium.com/@StarkWare/introducing-starkware-industries-4afa403999f9

https://ambcrypto.com/zcash-zec-enters-alliance-starkware/

I can not see what one thing has to do with the other?

[boxalex]

https://forum.z.cash/t/fpga-equihash-miner-developed-for-aion-network/28921/46

I crossposted the important part at the end of todays conversation there. For me it seems as the Foundation is bypassing Zookos (Zcash Co CEO) and (maybe tricked him) into an agreement to make tweaks for asic resistance. At least that's how i read it...

Yes, it’s an arms race. And guess what is a part of that arms race? GPU miners forking to get rid of ASICs. Just as it’s Bitmain’s right to make more powerful ASICs, it’s also our right to adjust the proof of work algorithm to make it more difficult for them to take over. GPU miners have the upper hand because it’s much easier to fork the algorithm than create new ASICs.

I should add that the only reason we’re still debating this is that Zooko – for whatever reason – doesn’t want to fork. The second he agrees to work on tweaking the proof of work algorithms, ASICs are finished.

How I understand it means that if Zooko will agree to fork, then ASICs will be finished but it's still not the case

That's not how i read it, but than again, English isn't my native language. As said allready, for me it sounds like this:
- Zooko doesn't agree to the fork, means no fork at all
- But he did agree to algo tweaking, something that can done without forking
- This means again, as soon as this tweaking happens, asisc on zcash algo are finished.

While i wrote allready on the zcash forum that no further discussion is needed, no answers, corrections, whatever since than, which again makes me believe that it's just as i readed it, but again, i could be totally wrong, but doesn't sound too good.

[Kalyst69]

How I understand it means that if Zooko will agree to fork, then ASICs will be finished but it's still not the case

That's not how i read it, but than again, English isn't my native language. As said allready, for me it sounds like this:
- Zooko doesn't agree to the fork, means no fork at all
- But he did agree to algo tweaking, something that can done without forking
- This means again, as soon as this tweaking happens, asisc on zcash algo are finished.

While i wrote allready on the zcash forum that no further discussion is needed, no answers, corrections, whatever since than, which again makes me believe that it's just as i readed it, but again, i could be totally wrong, but doesn't sound too good.



[/quote]

You forgot "The second he agrees to work on"
It means "When Zooko will give his agreement to work on"

[TGJ]

Even if he does agree it won’t be until late this year in all likelihood.

[Sandal_Hat]

Even if he does agree it won’t be until late this year in all likelihood.

On what basis? This is something that can be done pretty fast. It is basically a gamble at this point. Network hashrate will increase too.

[TGJ]

Even if he does agree it won’t be until late this year in all likelihood.

On what basis? This is something that can be done pretty fast. It is basically a gamble at this point. Network hashrate will increase too.

Based on this statement: https://z.cash.foundation/blog/statement-on-asics/.

[Eyedol-X]

Interesting read from a SIA/Obelisk Dev regarding Cryptocurrency Mining and ASIC's that has some specifics to the Equihash Asic Battle.

https://blog.sia.tech/the-state-of-cryptocurrency-mining-538004a37f9b

[Sandal_Hat]

Interesting read from a SIA/Obelisk Dev regarding Cryptocurrency Mining and ASIC's that has some specifics to the Equihash Asic Battle.

https://blog.sia.tech/the-state-of-cryptocurrency-mining-538004a37f9b

If their estimate that it cost 10m to develop the asic and bitmain sold 20m on first batch, that means alot more asics are coming our way lol.
For the bitmain plays dirty part, I think the problem is just obelisk taking long pre-orders. They didnt manufacture it first, and then release it. They took deposits for it and a long time to get it to market.

The major problem is when they sell more units than wat their customers can probably make back, as stated there...

[mattstyle]

Looks like Batch 2 is avail..
Shipping: August 24th- Sep.4th

$1520

They must be getting low on availability for the june delivery..

[Sandal_Hat]

Looks like Batch 2 is avail..
Shipping: August 24th- Sep.4th

$1520

They must be getting low on availability for the june delivery..

I suspect it is to show that 2nd batch will be some time away. People are afraid the 2nd batch might be the next week, just like how the B3 was.


For the 2nd batch, woah

2. We are currently accepting pre-orders for the Z9 mini. You can place an order by paying 50% of the order amount as down payment. Please note that the outstanding amount must be paid by the end of 1st August 2018 Beijing time(GMT+8).  Kindly note that as this is a preorder, the 50% down payment will be forfeited if you do not complete the payment by 1st August 2018 Beijing time(GMT+8). Please consider carefully before submitting your orders.

Hmmmmmm

[greyday]

Looks like Batch 2 is avail..
Shipping: August 24th- Sep.4th

$1520

They must be getting low on availability for the june delivery..

I suspect it is to show that 2nd batch will be some time away. People are afraid the 2nd batch might be the next week, just like how the B3 was.


For the 2nd batch, woah

2. We are currently accepting pre-orders for the Z9 mini. You can place an order by paying 50% of the order amount as down payment. Please note that the outstanding amount must be paid by the end of 1st August 2018 Beijing time(GMT+8).  Kindly note that as this is a preorder, the 50% down payment will be forfeited if you do not complete the payment by 1st August 2018 Beijing time(GMT+8). Please consider carefully before submitting your orders.

Hmmmmmm

It says "can". You can also just pay in full like usual and not worry about it, though honestly I'm not sure what the benefit is to adding this policy (aside from free money from lazy people, I suppose), unless they think some potential Z9 buyers overextended themselves on B3s and X3s and want to give them the chance to earn more with them to pay the rest of the bill? Seems weird.

[TGJ]

First batch appears to now be sold out.

[shaninium]

First batch appears to now be sold out.

Finally, its a good tactic, if someone wanted to buy one but was holding off then waiting over a month for the next batch for a minor discount isnt worth it, so they buy the first batch.

[vuhoang1giang]

that good new, wait Z9 miner.
But i just want that for other bitmain machine price down. ))