[ANN][GRA] Graincoin - New PoW/PoS coin | Fast, secure | Version 1.5 Released!

[bee7]

That is the great news,

Will you use PoW only for the super block control ? or Using PoS also ?

PoW only, please see the update in my post.

AND, one more basic issues

    This coin will be changed to 1024 fixed rewards ?
    
    If not,
               the cheating miner will mining between 1536 ~ 2048 chance only, it will makes 20~25% more gain,
    If yes,
              the reward concept will be changed too much ?

I need to discuss this with bosian.

Anyway,

     I have been simulated the super block only mining suing simple batch file with the blocknotify option,
     and, I found it is very easy to do the selective mining,
     and, better than continous mining

     such as
             (1) I have put, blocknotify=\hash.bat into conf file
             (2) and, I have calcuate the super block chance
             (3) if super block chance, I have been mining this coin
             (4) if not, I have been mining  the other coin

             the average reward for the continous mining with 2MHs, 160GRA/minutes
             superblock mining with 2MHs, 550GRA/minuts

             (5) I have dump the block information using getblocktemplate, and use the coinbase,
             (6) I have mining when the coin chance is higher than 1500, or super block
            
             the aveage rewards for the selective mining with 2MHs, 196GRA/minutes


I hope you can resolve more firm and reliable way
And, it is the common problem for ALL random reward coins,
It is the good chacne to show this coin is superior than the other coin,

The block reward for any PoW may be moved to the next block to prevent this, but this will increase the blockchain size significantly.

Some extra issues,
        (1) the block time of this coin
        (2) too many orphans with some ratio between PoW/PoS diffs
        (3) threading for PoS mining (and/or better PoS mining)
        (4) block time reference in the three

1) doubling the block time would not solve the problem. Significantly larger increase would completely change the characteristics of the coin.
3) What means better PoS mining? What could be done better there? I don't think that running several PoS threads would increase your income from PoS mining.
4) What you mean?

[mkimid]

Some extra issues,
        (1) the block time of this coin
        (2) too many orphans with some ratio between PoW/PoS diffs
        (3) threading for PoS mining (and/or better PoS mining)
        (4) block time reference in the three

1) doubling the block time would not solve the problem. Significantly larger increase would completely change the characteristics of the coin.
3) What means better PoS mining? What could be done better there? I don't think that running several PoS threads would increase your income from PoS mining.
4) What you mean?

1) My means, what is the official (or target/designed) block time for this coin ?
    it is 30s (official) or 20s (practical)
    I guess, it should be defined

3) thread is for the release CPU power for the other application also, at least, it will hold CPU for 15ms, and give a chance to run the other threads,
    actually, there is no need to increase the PoS mining speed or performance whatever, actually, it is the function of diff of PoS.

4) actually, typo...

[mkimid]

The block reward for any PoW may be moved to the next block to prevent this, but this will increase the blockchain size significantly.

I understand,
It is very difficult to resolve now,
It is why the solution is the most valuable.

[OneEyedJack]

I need Graincoin to grow beyond the confines of BTC valuation and the llegal stigma of questionable merchandise.
We should use this board community to find solutions, as to how to get GRA integrated into the marketplace.
Of course you will never have a commodity/currency that won't be used for illegal transactions, that's just greed and no morals.
Anyway, however, you can use GRA for legal and morals transactions. But it's the ideas and how to integrate them that we need.

One thing I would like to propose is getting GRA into a MMORPG. Using it as a transactional currency between Real World Cash and in game currency.
Or using it as a promotional currency as prizes to buy things from the MMORPG Website.

It's a good place to start.

[bee7]

Some extra issues,
        (1) the block time of this coin
        (2) too many orphans with some ratio between PoW/PoS diffs
        (3) threading for PoS mining (and/or better PoS mining)
        (4) block time reference in the three

1) doubling the block time would not solve the problem. Significantly larger increase would completely change the characteristics of the coin.
3) What means better PoS mining? What could be done better there? I don't think that running several PoS threads would increase your income from PoS mining.
4) What you mean?

1) My means, what is the official (or target/designed) block time for this coin ?
    it is 30s (official) or 20s (practical)
    I guess, it should be defined

The target spacing is 30 seconds for both PoW and Pos. I need to check how it interacts exactly to give you more detailed answr.

3) thread is for the release CPU power for the other application also, at least, it will hold CPU for 15ms, and give a chance to run the other threads,
    actually, there is no need to increase the PoS mining speed or performance whatever, actually, it is the function of diff of PoS.

I believe that this is not a wallet problem, but Windows GUI app and AV related.

Here is the per-thread stats of grain wallet with quite a number of the inputs eligible for PoS mining that is running under Linux on 2GHz double core AMD Athlon(tm) II X2 270:

Code:

  PID USER      PR  NI    VIRT    RES    SHR S %CPU %MEM     TIME+ COMMAND                                                                                    
28314 grain     39  19 1050048 162004   4032 S 10.2  0.5  93:53.15 bitcoin-miner                                                                              
28304 grain     20   0 1050048 162004   4032 S  0.3  0.5   0:21.93 bitcoin-wallet                                                                             
28311 grain     20   0 1050048 162004   4032 S  0.3  0.5   0:02.75 bitcoin-opencon                                                                            
26919 grain     20   0 1050048 162004   4032 S  0.0  0.5   1:52.97 graind                                                                                     
28308 grain     20   0 1050048 162004   4032 S  0.0  0.5   0:01.01 bitcoin-ircseed                                                                            
28313 grain     20   0 1050048 162004   4032 S  0.0  0.5   0:03.54 bitcoin-adrdump                                                                            

.  You may see that the PoS miner thread consumes 10.2 % of the CPU time.
Could you try to run gui-less variant of wallet (graind) as a daemon and see if that makes sense?

[bosian]

AND, one more basic issues

    This coin will be changed to 1024 fixed rewards ?
    
    If not,
               the cheating miner will mining between 1536 ~ 2048 chance only, it will makes 20~25% more gain,
    If yes,
              the reward concept will be changed too much ?

I need to discuss this with bosian.

Not sure I understand what you mean mkimid. The base coin payout is random, that variation is not big that we possibly don't need to care. The key is 8X and 64X superblocks, if we can do "delayed" payout, then the cheater will not get anything more, they will just that their 1X, the rest 7X or 63X will go to the person who find the lucky hash.

[btc1210]

What's this "gravity well" that's so popular right now?

Is that something that could give GRA some attention?

[bosian]

What's this "gravity well" that's so popular right now?

Is that something that could give GRA some attention?

Nope, Graincoin uses diff retarget each block, which is the original algorithm from PeerCoin. This performs the same function as "gravity well" and is simpler/faster. I don't get why "gravity well" even implemented in the first place, it is apparently by a dev who was not aware the existence of PeerCoin algorithm, and re-invented the wheel.
 
Many pow-only coins implemented the PeerCoin algorithms and work very well, some examples like Infinitecoin, Earthcoin among many others. Not to say PoW/PoS coins, which are almost exclusively using PeerCoin's retarget each block algorithm.

[Marsenault]

My grain wallet has been going into (not responding) mode for almost a month now. seem like it worked great for about a week after the new wallet came out, then it was a mess again.

I'm guessing this has a lot to do with why it's only 10 satoshies each now.

[DeathCoins]

Are you tired and hungry? Need some more grain? Come collect GrainCoins from our new faucet!

http://deathxchange.com/graincoins.php

We look forward to giving grain to those in need

[mkimid]

What's this "gravity well" that's so popular right now?

Is that something that could give GRA some attention?

Nope, Graincoin uses diff retarget each block, which is the original algorithm from PeerCoin. This performs the same function as "gravity well" and is simpler/faster. I don't get why "gravity well" even implemented in the first place, it is apparently by a dev who was not aware the existence of PeerCoin algorithm, and re-invented the wheel.
 
Many pow-only coins implemented the PeerCoin algorithms and work very well, some examples like Infinitecoin, Earthcoin among many others. Not to say PoW/PoS coins, which are almost exclusively using PeerCoin's retarget each block algorithm.

Diff control at the each block, it is enough via some high hash attack, i think,
Only concern is the diff of PoW,

When PoS diff is going up as 0.0x, Diff of PoW is going down too low such as 0.1~0.2,
(Or 0.003~0.006 DiffOfPoS with 0.05~0.15 diff of PoW)
And, even is become normal after some time (couple of hours or a day),
While this situation is happening, 4-8 PoW block are generated within a minutes,
And the average block time (for 100 blocks) are going down 10~14 seconds,

Possibly, need a minimum bracket between PoS via PoW,

Such as DiffOfPoS less than 1/10th of PoW when DiffOfPOW is lower than 1.0
And, DiffOfPoW higher than x10 or x5 at least,

Just a suggestion to escape that kind of strange lock at the lower network rate,

[mkimid]

AND, one more basic issues

    This coin will be changed to 1024 fixed rewards ?
    
    If not,
               the cheating miner will mining between 1536 ~ 2048 chance only, it will makes 20~25% more gain,
    If yes,
              the reward concept will be changed too much ?

I need to discuss this with bosian.

Not sure I understand what you mean mkimid. The base coin payout is random, that variation is not big that we possibly don't need to care. The key is 8X and 64X superblocks, if we can do "delayed" payout, then the cheater will not get anything more, they will just that their 1X, the rest 7X or 63X will go to the person who find the lucky hash.

Maybe you are right, it is enough.

The variation is not big, so, possible net gain is not much difference,
Anyway, using a personal pool, i have set two mining target, GRA and LTC,
And, all miners are mining on XXX,
When new block is found at GRA, I have got the GetBlockTemplete,
And if the coin value is higher than 1500, i have switching to GRA and sent the refresh message to the miner,
And, it takes 36~120ms to changed, i have increase the coin efficiency,
It is similar concept of multi switch pools

Actually, I have simulated with various way to find the way of cheating,
And i found he have 1~3 delay time to start the super block mining,
So, he lost a chance when diff is very low and the block time is very low,
He mined the normal block, it means he lost a chance by some delay,

Anyway, there are so many interesting cheating/methods ^^

[karky]

Reward halving approaching from norkh east!! Whoo-hhooooo

I stay on the grain train.

[scabbyb]

Grain price in serious trouble.  I worry that if there aren't more buyers and people continue to dump coins so cheap, coinedup will remove grain from the exchange.  If you were ever planning on buying more grain, I think now is the time..

[mkimid]

Reward halving approaching from norkh east!! Whoo-hhooooo

I stay on the grain train.

yep, after two days, ^^
it will be good ?

[mkimid]

Grain price in serious trouble.  I worry that if there aren't more buyers and people continue to dump coins so cheap, coinedup will remove grain from the exchange.  If you were ever planning on buying more grain, I think now is the time..

I agree with you,
and, I have bought some coins,
Actually, when consider the mining gain,
Still the profitability is not bad even little bit lower than LTC coin,
but, If keep going down, it will be a trouble.

Recently, my minder start to get more GRA per day,
but, I am not happy with it, because of number of miners are goind down,

....

[tozak]

Just got my first PoS grains, very exciting

[karky]

Grain price in serious trouble.  I worry that if there aren't more buyers and people continue to dump coins so cheap, coinedup will remove grain from the exchange.  If you were ever planning on buying more grain, I think now is the time..

I agree with you,
and, I have bought some coins,
Actually, when consider the mining gain,
Still the profitability is not bad even little bit lower than LTC coin,
but, If keep going down, it will be a trouble.

Recently, my minder start to get more GRA per day,
but, I am not happy with it, because of number of miners are goind down,

....

Did you count on that, that superblocks are giving about the same value, as it's witout them?
I mean i count with reward: 3000
Because it's 1024-2048 ~ 1500 + (0,05*8*1500)+(0,01*64*1500)= 1500+600+960 ~~ 3000

[btc1210]

My wallet is actually starting to get really slow. Not sure if a Grain specific issue or simply because I have thousands of transactions.

Probably tough to calculate PoS for that many.

[mkimid]

Grain price in serious trouble.  I worry that if there aren't more buyers and people continue to dump coins so cheap, coinedup will remove grain from the exchange.  If you were ever planning on buying more grain, I think now is the time..

I agree with you,
and, I have bought some coins,
Actually, when consider the mining gain,
Still the profitability is not bad even little bit lower than LTC coin,
but, If keep going down, it will be a trouble.

Recently, my minder start to get more GRA per day,
but, I am not happy with it, because of number of miners are goind down,

....

Did you count on that, that superblocks are giving about the same value, as it's witout them?
I mean i count with reward: 3000
Because it's 1024-2048 ~ 1500 + (0,05*8*1500)+(0,01*64*1500)= 1500+600+960 ~~ 3000

X8 chance : 8.6% with PoW, 7.8% with PoS
X64 chance : 1.7% with PoW, 1.5% with PoS

When PoS/PoW : x2 :

X8 chance = 8.6 * 1/3 + 7.8 * 2/3 = 8.07%
X64 chance = 1.7 * 1/3 + 1.5 * 2/3 = 1.57%

Average reward : (1024 + 2048) / 2 = 1536 at 90.36% = 1388
X8 : 1536 * 8 = 12288 at 8.07% = 991
X64 : 1536 * 64 = 98304 at 1.57% = 1543

Reward : 3921

But, actual reward should be around 2000~2500/block with 1~3Mh/s

(1) some sneaky miners are just mining the super block only,
(2) pool/higher hash miner have more than a lower hash miner,

The network hash rate is keep going down,

Overall peak : ~250M
Most average : ~100M
Recently : 30~60M