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Author Topic: mtgox.com has blocked my account with 45 000 USD in it!  (Read 70705 times)
kiba
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February 25, 2011, 01:03:58 AM
 #261

I think you are wrong here. Virtual goods do have monetary value in eyes of the law. And while I do not agree with casascius on everything on his post I do think that if no quick resolution, legal route is the most reasonable thing to do.
* kiba ducks under the table as the terrestrial court descended on a bitcoiner.

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February 25, 2011, 01:05:34 AM
 #262

MtGox said:

There is pretty strong evidence that this guy was involved in some theft of BTC. I'm trying to talk to him to make absolutely certain.

What more of an explanation does MtGox owe us?  We aren't the legal system he's subject to.  If because of this we somehow think MtGox will rip us off too, then we may exercise our right to withdraw our balances and discontinue using his services.  I haven't seen Baron make even a halfway credible or coherent argument as to how these accusations don't have any merit

If my MtGox money disappeared, I would have no problem coherently explaining how I got it there, in two sentences or less, to the satisfaction of an attorney, a judge, or a jury.  The whole idea that $45k can't buy a lawyer is nonsense.  I have hired lawyers for plenty of things and doubt I've ever spent anywhere close $45k in my entire life on lawyers.  A small legal fee just to come up with a coherent letter to Jed, cc: in plain view on the forum, explaining in plain English why the funds should be returned would be priceless... if in fact they should be returned to him.  Here in America that would cost no more than a couple hundred bucks to have prepared by a law office.  If that's too much to ask from Baron, well, to hell with him.

If Baron needs to lead us on a wild goose chase and make all this crap about "uh, what's a block chain"... cheers to Jed for doing what he did.  If I were Jed, I would stash that money somewhere safe and keep my mouth shut, until someone stepped forward with a credible claim to it.  It sounds like that's exactly what he is doing.

I was on my lawyers. He told me to try solve this situation peacefully, what I am doing.  

I don't know how much you pay to lawyers , but probably you don't know how much takes to hire very good lawyer.  Only consultations cost for me ~100 USD/hour. Plus calculate court expenditure,  time used , what you get?


If Baron needs to lead us on a wild goose chase and make all this crap about "uh, what's a block chain".  - I really don't know what is block chain, because I am not trying to master all technical details of bitcoin at least for now.

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February 25, 2011, 01:06:51 AM
 #263


I think you are wrong here. Virtual goods do have monetary value in eyes of the law. And while I do not agree with casascius on everything on his post I do think that if no quick resolution, legal route is the most  reasonable thing to do. Though, for some people from other countries it might be difficult to understand how to do it and what are the implications.

A lawyer could help him without even needing to go a "legal route".  A lawyer's job isn't to sue, it's to communicate.  A lawyer could put his ramblings into some coherent form for the benefit of all of us, and if he's in the right, perhaps persuade Jed to change his mind.  In such a case it would be $200 well spent.  There's even a lawyer who takes BTC on the trade list.

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
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February 25, 2011, 01:07:24 AM
 #264

Otherwise, by that same logic, I should be allowed to go shoplift homeopathic remedies and Justin Bieber merchandise all day long  because most people think it is worthless crap.

You would never do that, because it IS worthless crap!

And it is not unheard of for the US government to attempt to go after a private currency, or people trading in currencies other than the USD.

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February 25, 2011, 01:07:44 AM
 #265

casascius, you still miss the main point. For what concerns any country's justice the value or worth of the stolen "thing" is zero.
Go on a claim that one stole you 45K LRUSD, 9K BTC or go saying that your neighbor assaulted your Farmville has the same legal value: NONE.

I think you are wrong here. Virtual goods do have monetary value in eyes of the law. And while I do not agree with casascius on everything on his post I do think that if no quick resolution, legal route is the most  reasonable thing to do. Though, for some people from other countries it might be difficult to understand how to do it and what are the implications.

The first thing you would need to do is to prove its value, if you claim to be stolen.
By doing so you make it a tangible good or asset, so you're owning taxes for each bitcoin you create or trade.

As Justin whatever (that boy with funny hair, right?)'s merchandise would be also tax exempt... which it isn't.
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February 25, 2011, 01:07:54 AM
 #266


I think you are wrong here. Virtual goods do have monetary value in eyes of the law. And while I do not agree with casascius on everything on his post I do think that if no quick resolution, legal route is the most  reasonable thing to do. Though, for some people from other countries it might be difficult to understand how to do it and what are the implications.

A lawyer could help him without even needing to go a "legal route".  A lawyer's job isn't to sue, it's to communicate.  A lawyer could put his ramblings into some coherent form for the benefit of all of us, and if he's in the right, perhaps persuade Jed to change his mind.  In such a case it would be $200 well spent.  There's even a lawyer who takes BTC on the trade list.

Off-topic: I like your avatar. Wink

Bitalo.com coming soon!

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February 25, 2011, 01:08:05 AM
 #267

If Baron needs to lead us on a wild goose chase and make all this crap about "uh, what's a block chain".  - I really don't know what is block chain, because I am not trying to master all technical details of bitcoin at least for now.

If by now you don't know what the block chain is, you have no business trading 45000 BTC.

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
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February 25, 2011, 01:08:24 AM
 #268

I am going to try to contact mtgox since you guys think he know everything.

Get the situation resolved, asap.

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February 25, 2011, 01:09:45 AM
 #269


As Justin whatever (that boy with funny hair, right?) ...

Not anymore; I've heard that he cut his hair and is going to put it out on sale (seriously).  Grin

I wonder does he accept Bitcoin.

Bitalo.com coming soon!

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February 25, 2011, 01:09:54 AM
 #270

If Baron needs to lead us on a wild goose chase and make all this crap about "uh, what's a block chain".  - I really don't know what is block chain, because I am not trying to master all technical details of bitcoin at least for now.

If by now you don't know what the block chain is, you have no business trading 45000 BTC.


+1

Dont trade more than you can afford to lose.
casascius
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February 25, 2011, 01:10:00 AM
 #271

The first thing you would need to do is to prove its value, if you claim to be stolen.
By doing so you make it a tangible good or asset, so you're owning taxes for each bitcoin you create or trade.

As Justin whatever (that boy with funny hair, right?)'s merchandise would be also tax exempt... which it isn't.

You're killing me with these funky legal analyses.  I doubt you've ever set foot in a US courtroom.

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
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February 25, 2011, 01:10:13 AM
 #272

And it is not unheard of for the US government to attempt to go after a private currency, or people trading in currencies other than the USD.

Like some dictator trying to trade oil for Euros...  Roll Eyes
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February 25, 2011, 01:10:26 AM
 #273

If Baron needs to lead us on a wild goose chase and make all this crap about "uh, what's a block chain".  - I really don't know what is block chain, because I am not trying to master all technical details of bitcoin at least for now.

If by now you don't know what the block chain is, you have no business trading 45000 BTC.


I never trade for 45 000  BTC, it's my LRUSD balance.   

Also I don't have any troubles by using bitcoin , without knowing who is block chain.

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February 25, 2011, 01:12:50 AM
 #274


I never trade for 45 000  BTC, it's my LRUSD balance.   

Also I don't have any troubles by using bitcoin , without knowing who is block chain.

I may have bad grammar and all, but your sentences are more jarring than mine.

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February 25, 2011, 01:13:50 AM
 #275

You're killing me with these funky legal analyses.  I doubt you've ever set foot in a US courtroom.

Actually, last time I checked "US Courts" just applies over "US Citizens", and by the IP mtgox is displaying I get this:

201.191.115.114    CR    Costa Rica    03    Guanacaste    Liberia       10.6333    -85.4333    Instituto Costarricense de Electricidad y Telecom.    Instituto Costarricense de Electricidad y Telecom.

So... unless Costa Rica is the 51th State, whatever you came up with about "US Courtrooms" voids. "US Courtrooms" are however cool for funny and joke cases:

«My neighbors' kitten shitted in my garden and I want 5000 USD compensation»...

For the notice; I'm European. So I wouldn't have a reason to visit the US's Courtrooms' Freak Show  Wink
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February 25, 2011, 01:22:21 AM
 #276

Costa Rica is about to become the 51st state, as closely as its government is sucking up to the US in terms of banking secrecy (or lack thereof). I'd be going somewhere else, even if the surf is up.

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February 25, 2011, 01:25:33 AM
 #277


I never trade for 45 000  BTC, it's my LRUSD balance.   

Also I don't have any troubles by using bitcoin , without knowing who is block chain.

I may have bad grammar and all, but your sentences are more jarring than mine.

Gee, the guy is maybe out $45000.  Let's hammer him on his use of English. 
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February 25, 2011, 01:28:19 AM
 #278

I finally sent mtgox an email.

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February 25, 2011, 01:33:58 AM
 #279

You're killing me with these funky legal analyses.  I doubt you've ever set foot in a US courtroom.

Actually, last time I checked "US Courts" just applies over "US Citizens", and by the IP mtgox is displaying I get this:

201.191.115.114    CR    Costa Rica    03    Guanacaste    Liberia       10.6333    -85.4333    Instituto Costarricense de Electricidad y Telecom.    Instituto Costarricense de Electricidad y Telecom.


Where does mtgox display an IP address?  www.mtgox.com resolves to 74.52.143.58 which appears to be an ISP in Houston TX...

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
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February 25, 2011, 01:35:22 AM
 #280

Where does mtgox display an IP address?  www.mtgox.com resolves to 74.52.143.58 which appears to be an ISP in Houston TX...

Because that's where the site is hosted, but the guy isn't a Texan.
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