[ANN][PRT] Particle | CPU/GPU, Fast, Easy Mine, * NO PREMINE * | Official Thread

[coinlover57]

We could bump it back up to 180 coins, or 360, for a longer period of time?

Let's tackle the block reward first.

I would say that 360 is the minimum. Ideally I would say 780 to attract more miners...

For the period of time I would say at least 3 or 6 more months.

[ssshhh]

Whatever block reward you choose would have to encourage mining over the looooong term.
No miners == no transactions!

EDIT:  or increase MAX_MONEY by 50% [ to compensate for the initial miners IPO ;o) ] and have a fixed block reward for x amount of years (no bonus blocks).  

[needmoreprofit]

Moonmoon  I apologize if I missed something, but the next version will be a beta or alpha?
And when you will release next version of the wallet?

[chowdan]

We could bump it back up to 180 coins, or 360, for a longer period of time?

Let's tackle the block reward first.

I would say that 360 is the minimum. Ideally I would say 780 to attract more miners...

For the period of time I would say at least 3 or 6 more months.

I would also agree that 360 is on the min end of things(keep in mind i am a miner though, so even though i try to think from the middle of the road, i may unintentially be thinking more to one side than the other).

Depending on timeline projections, we should be looking at payout rates based on when new releases are coming out(new wallet and such). If our rewards are too high and the end date is too soon, we'll hit our cap faster than we want and shoot ourselves in the foot. Dont want massive rushes of miners in here jsut to get high rewards and cash out fast.

In all honesty, i would like to see our price increase at and be stable with the increase and continuous influx of users in the coin while keeping payouts the same, however this has yet to happen so the change must happen.

[publicjud]

We could bump it back up to 180 coins, or 360, for a longer period of time?

Let's tackle the block reward first.

I would say that 360 is the minimum. Ideally I would say 780 to attract more miners...

For the period of time I would say at least 3 or 6 more months.

Explain why we have to bump it up?

[chowdan]

Coinedup is giving me troubles for buying PRT :@ Me no like this:@

[tomato08]

how to mining prt to vga   

[Hilux74]

The reason you don't see PoS implemented more is because it is a lot of modding to the out-of-box bitcoin code to do it.  You could take something like PeerCoin I guess and base it on that.  But, its a little more complex to implement it.

I would say we can keep PoS on the table as an option, but further down the road once we get the current Qt wallet updated and the new advanced wallet out the door.  Need to space these major features out so we have realistic time for development ;-)

So, the question for the community is how would you like to adjust the block reward algorithm to encourage continued mining.

We could bump it back up to 180 coins, or 360, for a longer period of time?

Let's tackle the block reward first.

Do you know what would be really cool? To play into the idea of particles..

Change the block reward to the atomic weight of a random element from the periodic table each day. Only once for each one. Shuffle a list then each block record is the next atomic weight on the list. Then those who keep track will be able to "guess" what the next block reward will be by which atomic weights are left from the periodic table. Once all the elements have been cycled through, shuffle the the list and start again.

Pick one element to always start from. That will be the signal that the cycle has started over again. Particle would both be unique, interesting, and for those that want to play the game, they work out when best to mine Particle. Or they could always mine it and get an average reward over x amount of blocks.

Just a thought.

https://www.webelements.com/

That's a cool and fun idea.  Maybe too complicated to implement but I like the creativity.

On the simple side, 360 sounds good for the time being (6months?).  Enough to keep it worthwhile mining esp as prices rise.  No increase to max # coins though!!!  Just plan on a shorter than 10 year mining period.  For a currency like PRT that should be adopted and used as a currency rather than storage a 3-5 mining plan is plenty...if it isn't a success by then it never will be.  After the mining period possibly bring in a small % POS reward.  That combined with transaction fees if it is a well used currency will be enough reward at that point for miners (and businesses) to maintain the network.

I like the thinking that goes on in this group.  It is a refreshing change from the 'End of the World' types in the Quark forum (still not sure how a currency that relies on the internet is awesome during an apocalypse???) and the hyped up 'To The Mooooon' crowd in many other coins.

Particle is the real deal and this is just the beginning.

[Hilux74]

I think manipulating the block reward would not be harmful to investors as long as the total coins does not change. 

Block reward should not be considered a static variable, it should be malleable with thoughtful consideration to adapt to changes in situation to the benefit of the currency (not just to miners or just to investor but the overall health of the currency).  I believe that is what is happening here and should show to investors that the Dev is active and thoughtful.  That is a positive sign!

The way I see it the reason behind the planned reward increase is to give some more time for the wallet and application layer to be completed.  At the current decrease rate their is risk that too many miners, that are the foundation layer, will leave before the wallet and app layer are complete and Particle has reached a 'critical mass' of users.

Change of the total number of MINED coins would be very bad so hopefully that is not part of the plan.  **Some inflation to the total number post mining period via POS would likely be healthy and would have to be decided upon in the future.

*I'm not part of the Dev team so this is all just my thoughts/opinions.

Go PRT!

[publicjud]

I'm feel increasing the block reward will just sacrifice the coin in the future for more hash rate now.  What is the long term point?

[matauc12]

Particle is the real deal and this is just the beginning.

Yes it is.
I'm investor in this coin because I like it:
 - technically nice
 - offer new stuff
 - the specs are nice

From my position I have a bad see of a reward increase. I'm pretty against.

I think you don't realise how nice is the market behind you.
https://www.cryptocoincharts.info/v2/pair/prt/btc/coinedup
http://www.guogao.com/trade/PRT/

Changing the reward will just destroy it and investors like me going back on btc. China look very strong on this market and it's increasing.
Of course miners will be happy if you increase the reward. But for what ? Fearing all your investors ? You manipulate your coin on half way for no real reasons, except making some miners happy.
How I would trust in your coin ? Why I would put my money in a coin the dev are manipulating on the specs ?

Really, tell me now if you plan to change the reward or if I misunderstand something.

I think PRT is strong and will go up. Don't do a bad move please.

You have to think what WILL happen if it isn't changed. If the reward isn't more "rewarding", it will come to a point where there will be no more miners, and I hope I don't have to explain why having no miners isn't good...

The proposed changed is simply keeping the reward a little higher for a little longer without affecting the cap. The previous time for total distribution of 10 yrs was probably way too long anyways, in this day and age, you should know within 2 years if the coin will sustain itself or not. So it is almost fixing another problem in that.

Also a move active distribution could prevent choking the market, something that could happen and that we were also somewhat already victim of.

THERE IS NO DOWNSIDE TO THE PROPOSED CHANGE.

Disclaimer : I am NOT mining prt

[kaene]

Block reward is a specification that you should not change at this point, it's manipulation, coin would have a different value ... it's just not an option.

[matauc12]

Block reward is a specification that you should not change at this point, it's manipulation, coin would have a different value ... it's just not an option.

It isn't really affecting the market. And even if it did in a relatively significant manner, you still have to ask yourself, does the good out weight the bad, and it definitely does.

[Nullu]

Changing the block reward is like someone slashing the price of the product after you've purchased it. It changes the value of coins previously mined by adjusting their scarcity.

Whether that is fair or not, I couldn't say, but if I'd been mining particle for months, then find the block rewards were about to double, for example, I'd be pretty miffed.

[matauc12]

Changing the block reward is like someone slashing the price of the product after you've purchased it. It changes the value of coins previously mined by adjusting their scarcity.

Whether that is fair or not, I couldn't say, but if I'd been mining particle for months, then find the block rewards were about to double, for example, I'd be pretty miffed.

Well with that mentality,  wouldn't it be a good thing as someone who buys a product that you constantly buy, like apples (as per your example), sure you bought overpriced apples, but in the future you get cheaper apples to the point where the apples are now cheaper overall. (From a miners point of view, since I assume that's what you implied). From an investors point of view, it's good for the health of the coin, which usually means good for the investment.

In the crypto world, people convinced themselves that inflation is the worst thing in the world, but believe me, there is much smarter people than us that knows why inflation is a good thing. The bad thing about inflation we see in fiat, is that it's in part a byproduct of government mispending.

And regardless, it's all about the good out weight the bad. You really thing it's better for the coin to lose more miners at this p9int, and lose even more in the near future?

Also it doesn't really affect scarcity in the end since the max coin cap doesn't change. Also, we need more volume as a whole, from both sell and buy, bigger miner reward creates more sell.

If you don't understand why sell oorderbook volume is important well... put yourself in the shoes of a big buyer, if you wish to buy a lot, (which would increase the price) but to get the amount you would like you would have to pay up to 200% premium because there is no sell, would you be tempted to buy? Of course it would push the price upwards, but low volume upwards is usually low volume downwards, so it's really better to choose to buy something with higher volume.

So please bring the change, until someone brings a tangible reason why it shouldn't happen.

[chowdan]

Block reward is a specification that you should not change at this point, it's manipulation, coin would have a different value ... it's just not an option.

It isn't really affecting the market. And even if it did in a relatively significant manner, you still have to ask yourself, does the good out weight the bad, and it definitely does.

As a PRT miner from pretty much week two, and a miner across multiple currencies, i welcome the higher mining rewards.

The reason being i've watched the price of PRT increase and the block rewards decrease and the difficulty increase.

With that being said, i will make MORE per block now with a higher block reward than i did with the blcok reward where it is now.

Yes, i may see a price decrease after the block adjustment, however with more people willing to mine, and a wider distribution across who owns the currency means longer term support of the coin and a wider range of people are willing to enter/exit the coin.

I welcome the increase in block rewards as my income in PRT per hour increase X amount. With that increase, we see the decrease in price for now(we dont even know if it will decrease) which means i mine the same VALUE per hour(or roughly the same); however this gives me more of an incentive to continue to mine as i am gaining MORE PRT per hour which means in the longer term when/if the price reaches back to the same value as it was before the adjustment, i'll be that much richer.

From a pure miner's perspective, if we double the amount per block mined, the miner now has doubled his PRT income every hour/24hrs. The price drop of PRT would have to fall in relation to the block reward(not always true but in theory it "should").

If the value per PRT falls in relation, that means my income has NOT changed based on what ever currency you are cashing out too; however your income HAS doubled per hour due to the block reward in PRT. In personal opinion, i do not calculate my profits based on what the value of the coin currently is trading at, i calculate it based on what the future price will be.

Each miner has their own reason's for mining, however a higher block reward now, means that the current miners will gain more PRT per hour which in the LONG TERM means that they will have mroe to sell and in turn have MORE profits.

Every 100,000 PRT mined, i sell off 10k-30k based on different values on what buy orders are on the market. Some of you think someone's stupid for selling at a lower price, but i look at it as a donation. Sometimes a trade is made for 6PRT, sometimes its made for 20PRT, sometimes 30kPRT.

I WANT people in this coin, I WANT to see this coin grow, I WANT to see PRT to become a dominate competitor to the higher end coins such as LTC/BTC. We have a bright future ahead and yes me selling at low rates means im not "getting rich", but it means that the stash of coins that i retain will become worth even more with each new user we gain.

[matauc12]

It is very common knowledge by this point that block reward has very little effect on price (see litecoin historically for a prime example). Also, did the price double every block reward halving? Nope.

In fact, due to the better distribution it should actually drive the price up, being a better structure and fix one of the only problems of particle. Confidence in the coin increase, which is by far the biggest driver of value.

[Hilux74]

It is very common knowledge by this point that block reward has very little effect on price (see litecoin historically for a prime example). Also, did the price double every block reward halving? Nope.

In fact, due to the better distribution it should actually drive the price up, being a better structure and fix one of the only problems of particle. Confidence in the coin increase, which is by far the biggest driver of value.

+1

[lemfuture]

pls add mixer option 

[chowdan]

This kind of decision is breaking trust between you and me. You're screwing all peoples who put money into the coins and who keep working on it. You'll make peoples losing money, and you'll break more trust.

Miners are mining because of the market price short-medium-long term. They mine profitable coins or coins they trust. Miners are selling to guys like me.

You say miners are mining because of market price. That is false. I mine because i see a future in PRT, just solely because of price. You state you are an investor, so how can you say what miners are mining for?

Also i see no reason thsi would make an investor lose trust? Yes maybe the "unintended" block change would fall under this "lose trust" category, however the change is NOT, i repeat...NOT increasing PRT count, we are just shortening the time frame of which the final coin will be distributed out.

This in turn means that the final coin will be avaliable to the public at a shorter time.

As stated by matauc, changing the block reward has occurred on BIG coins before such as LTC and we did not see a severe drop on price. I personally do not see a reason why a price drop would occur.

The coin holding community of PRT is resiliant to selling their stashes at current prices, which means ones who want to BUY PRT is stuck continuiously increasing their buy price until one of the miners decides to sell it.

I sell anywhere from 10k-30k REGARDLESS of price for every 100k coins i mine. The reason being i want people to BUY the coin and i want the markets to continuiously change on pricing. It gives me a sense of security on more people having coins to go around.

On a small side note, selling 100 PRT increments for a total of 30k is VERY time consuming and demanding. I specifically dig through the exchanges to find specific buyers of this coin to sell my PRT - i dont want one user to potentially gain the 30k that im distributing out.