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Author Topic: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty - Pioneering Peer-to-Peer Finance - Official Thread  (Read 1248916 times)
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BitThink
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June 06, 2015, 08:34:53 AM
 #11461

It's just a bond, and the blockchain is used only to prove ownership. In this case, a colored coin based solution is the simplest. However, I don't see how other features (beyond what a bond needs): such as  on chain decentralized exchange, auto dividends distribution, to be implemented in that platform. I am still curious how they implement Medici. If based on colored coin, I am afraid it is still a centralized exchange.

Btw, the fact they are leaving counterparty is obvious when two devs left for their new company.
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June 06, 2015, 08:51:11 AM
 #11462


Btw, the fact they are leaving counterparty is obvious when two devs left for their new company.

you can check my post history, I am the last person talking bad about the counterparty developers, but if you announce working together with overstock and that is no longer the case you should make it crystal clear.

I remember back in feburary that it was posted here as well as on reddit that despite the developers leaving overstock still plans using the counterparty protocol - if this would have changed it would be nice to know.

this is an open source project and transparency regarding direction would really really help counterparty.
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June 06, 2015, 03:35:48 PM
 #11463


Btw, the fact they are leaving counterparty is obvious when two devs left for their new company.

you can check my post history, I am the last person talking bad about the counterparty developers, but if you announce working together with overstock and that is no longer the case you should make it crystal clear.

I remember back in feburary that it was posted here as well as on reddit that despite the developers leaving overstock still plans using the counterparty protocol - if this would have changed it would be nice to know.

this is an open source project and transparency regarding direction would really really help counterparty.


Hi guys, we can understand this reaction. To be honest, this development was news to us as well. As it is, we do not work at Overstock any more and have no visibility or influence into their decisions.

Visit the official Counterparty forums: http://counterpartytalk.org
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June 06, 2015, 05:15:49 PM
 #11464

What is stopping me from modifying the Counterparty installation on my system to provide all of the same functionality without burning XCP?

The network effect. It would be a one person party that's implementing updates from the real dev team. Wink

So the Counterparty protocol checks to make sure XCP was burned when scanning for transactions?
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June 06, 2015, 05:22:26 PM
 #11465

What is stopping me from modifying the Counterparty installation on my system to provide all of the same functionality without burning XCP?

The network effect. It would be a one person party that's implementing updates from the real dev team. Wink

So the Counterparty protocol checks to make sure XCP was burned when scanning for transactions?

Yes, something is in place to make sure XCP is burned in transactions where it's required.

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June 07, 2015, 12:29:25 AM
 #11466

Yeah, they probably made tens of dollars...

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June 07, 2015, 01:02:25 AM
 #11467

You know, I have seen pumps and dumps orchestrated to various scales and degrees of sophistication by a lot of slimy characters in the altcoin space but never have I seen a head of a multinational corp enter the arena and resort to this kind of tactic on a startup project with a few measly million dollar market cap. Unsurprisingly Byrne and co's affiliation and great positive announcements drove the price up close to 500%  before it came crashing down on the long view chart like a sack of shit. Who knows how much of that was insider trading.

  Not a single definitive public statement was made by either overstock or counterparty acknowledging that those earlier massively promising statements no longer held true.  All we got is cover ups and 'accidental slips' that perhaps counterparty was not the only project they are working with,I've got no idea whether counterparty devs were informed or whether they were also in the dark until they checked reddit today to find overstock comms director and head of medici project making an off cuff statement that Overstock is no longer touching counterparty at all. Well gee. thanks for the heads up.

Make no mistake overstocks confident words controlled the price of this security from the get go. It is inconceivable they did not factor heavily into bouncing the price around.  This painfully slow 180 bait n switch is absolutely criminal if you ask me. Haven't felt so cheated in the crypto world in years. investors trusted these were competent, truthful players. Overstock fucked us all in the ass and all we got was this lousy press release.

there is also still a bunch of incorrect information being thrown about by colored coins guys.

Coinprism is based on the Open Assets Protocol.
Colored coins

Uses the Bitcoin blockchain

Uses no intermediate currency

http://blog.coinprism.com/comparison-coinprism-counterparty-mastercoin/

They really should correct this, it's an unfair comparison.

As a side note that chart was compiled by Flavien, author of open assets protocol. He wrote the news earlier that Medici will not be working with counterparty, and later made a post that "Counterparty's facade starting to crack " I presume  Overstock had already had private communication with him at that time: https://twitter.com/FlavienCharlon/status/554777555493208064
To me, the biggest difference is that open asset based system is not a decentralized exchange, so at last they need a solution for one unless what they want is another centralized exchange. Before BTC script supports escrow, introducing a new currency is a must in building DEX.
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June 07, 2015, 05:56:31 AM
 #11468

Would like an explanation and comments from the Counterparty official developers.

 would like to get some info about the latest news about  CP team and project.

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June 07, 2015, 09:19:49 AM
Last edit: June 07, 2015, 09:57:50 AM by cryptoconomist
 #11469

I love the counterparty project but I think Overstock and others went for colored coin because

1) They have a working wallet which is stable. Counterwallet is unstable for me

2) Colored Coin can be stored on Trezor. People want a safe way to store large amount of money!

3) There is no intermediary coin with Colored coins

4) Nasdaq will use Open Assets

I don't think much need to be done for restoring trust in XCP but the minimum is a "working" wallet + Trezor and and an efficient decentralized exchange

Good Luck guys
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June 07, 2015, 12:10:58 PM
 #11470

I love the counterparty project but I think Overstock and others went for colored coin because

1) They have a working wallet which is stable. Counterwallet is unstable for me

2) Colored Coin can be stored on Trezor. People want a safe way to store large amount of money!

3) There is no intermediary coin with Colored coins

4) Nasdaq will use Open Assets

I don't think much need to be done for restoring trust in XCP but the minimum is a "working" wallet + Trezor and and an efficient decentralized exchange

Good Luck guys

1) What is a stable wallet? Counterwallet is one is it not?
2) righr , that's a good point; however counterparty and counterwallet supports multisig. I think they may also be support ledger wallet in the future.. They have certainly been in discussions with the devs there..ledger is another hardware wallet, that has suffered less problems than trezor
3) you don't need any intermediary coin to register assets in counterparty either...xcp cost is for anti spam and advanced features colored coins could not recreate.

4) no wonder since they can centralize some components and keep control by using colored coins. As well as earning fees by routing tx and tracking assets


Coinprism is based on the Open Assets Protocol.
Colored coins

Uses the Bitcoin blockchain

Uses no intermediate currency

http://blog.coinprism.com/comparison-coinprism-counterparty-mastercoin/

Biased, intentionally crafted comparison table by coinprism devs to represent their developments in the best possible way whilst throwing the others under the bus. They have been message about incorrect information but refused to update it.

the following entries for example

Quote
Send to multisig address, Native Android Wallet, Other platforms , Open source, Support for unconfirmed transactions , Asset icon , Associate contract with asset, Proof of authenticity , Send assets to multiple recipients.

are ALL marked as an X in the counterparty table column (ie they claim counterparty does not support any of those features) when in fact the platform supports every one of those.

only coinprism open source? seriously?.. That's just negligent. They have purposefully left of a bunch of argument points that would paint coinprism in a less positive light an

e.g open assets doesn't support true spv, requires use of either a centralized asset tracking server or running your own server, does not allow locking of assets (their genius solution is to delete the private key  Roll Eyes ), not compatible with vanilla bitcoin addresses, stores certain data in centralized manner, (they try and somehow push this as a benefit  Roll Eyes)  DOES NOT HAVE DECENTRALIZED EXCHANGE FUNCTIONALITY, unwieldy tracking of complex colors, opens gates for asset tracking gateways to monetize transactions - their business model (and likely some reasons nasdaq chose it )


Counterparty  has at least:

* the same functionality as colored coins (it costs 0 XCP to create an asset, only bitcoin is required)
* decentralized asset trading with automatic order matching <-- this is the reason we're here...
* assets that can pay distributions (dividends)
* assets can be customized (divisibility, callback, locked or issueable, total amount, description)
* peer-to-peer betting
* broadcasts
* contracts for difference
* smart contracts

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June 07, 2015, 12:12:05 PM
 #11471

I love the counterparty project but I think Overstock and others went for colored coin because

4) Nasdaq will use Open Assets

My very best guess: the news about Nasdaq and Overstock might be connected.

I tend to believe it makes sense to use a colored coins like system for plain settlement, due to the much lower overhead, compared to global consensus systems such as XCP. It's clear that this comes with significant limitations though.

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June 07, 2015, 12:17:36 PM
 #11472

I love the counterparty project but I think Overstock and others went for colored coin because

4) Nasdaq will use Open Assets

My very best guess: the news about Nasdaq and Overstock might be connected.

I tend to believe it makes sense to use a colored coins like system for plain settlement, due to the much lower overhead, compared to global consensus systems such as XCP. It's clear that this comes with significant limitations though.

I think they want to rush to beat NASDAQ to market. They also inferred.previously they would start with vanilla bitcoin then move to other sidechains and alt ledgers as t his first bond issuance is just a subset of Medici (bridge them across I suppose). No idea whether this has since changed though, I don't place a lot of faith in their abilities to make honest and accurate forward looking statements.
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June 07, 2015, 01:20:41 PM
 #11473

All the features in the world don't mean anything if nobody wants to build on them.  Just look at NXT.  So the question is, does anybody want to build on them?  It would be nice to hear from Symbiont but they aren't in the business of looking after XCP investor sentiment.
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June 07, 2015, 03:36:27 PM
 #11474

Sometimes elegant systems are preferred over feature-rich systems.

It's possible that the steps to reach the final asset are too complicated to sell to companies who wish to implement blockchain based assets.

NXT: USD -> Bitcoin -> NXT -> asset
Counterparty: USD -> Bitcoin -> XCP -> asset (?)
Color Coin: USD -> Bitcoin -> asset

?*: Is it possible to trade Bitcoin for a Counterparty asset directly?

For security, your account has been locked. Email acctcomp15@theymos.e4ward.com
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June 07, 2015, 05:55:44 PM
 #11475

www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/38pnfl/overstock_will_issue_a_private_bond_powered_by/

Wtf?

Does anyone else feel cheated?. I stuck with counterparty all this time, promoting it, evangelizing it and even recomennding it based on ovwrstock partnership while the price slid downhill consistently. Because if the news was true as implied the potential is still there long term regardless of the price now. Byrne and co pulled a fast one on counterparty investors with earlier hyperbolic statements and never had the balls to make a clear ststatement admitting those announcements are now false and likely have been for some time. Up until not so long ago byrne and Bagley were still talking about counterparty and nl they fkat out deny any involvement.

Whatever happened to this?

https://mobile.twitter.com/OverstockCEO/status/520254771890884608

Whatever happened to counterparty devs and byrne on stage together at inside bitcoins conference?
 
I watched probably a dozen interviews and presentations where it was confirmed counterparty was being implemented in some way. Why was a formal statement never made revealing ties had now been severed??

Counterparty devs were complicit in reassuring investors the deal is still on the table. Today we find out the 'rumors' were true  all along: they did a 180 some time
ago, now we are up against them and NASDAQ. Bet insiders privvy to this were dumping whilst everyone else was excited over the hypeto. No wonder it crashed like it did despite apparent huge future promise based on earlier press releases, it was being pumped. Those relying on what they assumed were accurate and up to date public information were at a huge disadvantage and got burned big time.

Never expected this, thought this one was different from the usual dirty pump dump scheme but here we are



Um, Robby Dermody and Evan Wagner left the Medici project back in February. Did you miss that news?: http://www.coindesk.com/lead-developers-leave-overstocks-medici-project/
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June 07, 2015, 06:20:32 PM
 #11476

www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/38pnfl/overstock_will_issue_a_private_bond_powered_by/

Wtf?

Does anyone else feel cheated?. I stuck with counterparty all this time, promoting it, evangelizing it and even recomennding it based on ovwrstock partnership while the price slid downhill consistently. Because if the news was true as implied the potential is still there long term regardless of the price now. Byrne and co pulled a fast one on counterparty investors with earlier hyperbolic statements and never had the balls to make a clear ststatement admitting those announcements are now false and likely have been for some time. Up until not so long ago byrne and Bagley were still talking about counterparty and nl they fkat out deny any involvement.

Whatever happened to this?

https://mobile.twitter.com/OverstockCEO/status/520254771890884608

Whatever happened to counterparty devs and byrne on stage together at inside bitcoins conference?
 
I watched probably a dozen interviews and presentations where it was confirmed counterparty was being implemented in some way. Why was a formal statement never made revealing ties had now been severed??

Counterparty devs were complicit in reassuring investors the deal is still on the table. Today we find out the 'rumors' were true  all along: they did a 180 some time
ago, now we are up against them and NASDAQ. Bet insiders privvy to this were dumping whilst everyone else was excited over the hypeto. No wonder it crashed like it did despite apparent huge future promise based on earlier press releases, it was being pumped. Those relying on what they assumed were accurate and up to date public information were at a huge disadvantage and got burned big time.

Never expected this, thought this one was different from the usual dirty pump dump scheme but here we are



Um, Robby Dermody and Evan Wagner left the Medici project back in February. Did you miss that news?: http://www.coindesk.com/lead-developers-leave-overstocks-medici-project/

Different guy but I am equally as bemused at the news. I had read that coindesk article before and did not think too much of it because it contained some positive pieces.
my background is as an OSTK investor who decided to invest also in CounterParty, as a first cryptographic currency after reading the following:

http://i.imgur.com/JyNYE6E.png

that news you linked article clearly states:

Quote
Overstock director of communications Judd Bagley indicated that the move coincides with a shift in Medici's development that will help the company build on a wider variety of protocols and blockchains in addition to Counterparty.

Quote
Bagley indicated that the remainder of the Medici team is still in place, with new replacements hired by Dermody and Wagner taking over as the lead developers.

Which seems fairly reassuring. but that cannot be right? They hired competitors and made the following statements afterwards?

There is a bit of confusion in the air with regards to some of the recent quotes by the Overstock CEO and the various interpretations of them.  It's arguable that they do seem to be getting progressively vague and I can see why some might get the idea this is Byrne distancing himself, while others adopt the mindset it's business as usual in the background and recent price action is just an excuse to take advantage of a price dip based on skewed info. I'd expect the developers to be under some sort of NDA preventing them from saying too much beyond what's already said so I don't think you will be able to rely on full clarifications right now.

 It's a shame to see hot/cold snippets trickle down into the news then waves of buying or selling based simply on said snippets, although it's not as if you would expect market participants to not react to them. A binary yes or no, or no news at all would be preferable. However Let's not forget CounterParty has great value potential since far before Medici was ever announced, has continued to show great promise more than a year later with incredible unexpected additions like turing complete scripting language, multisig, to name just two. Hope that we don't stay in a cycle of ups and downs with everything revolving around the currently non-existant Medici

Yes, the situation is unclear---sorry, we just can't say much at the moment. There'll be some relevant (positive) announcements very soon, though! Suffice it to say that Evan, Robby and I will all be working on Counterparty for the forseeable future.

Please explain to me how this announcement is positive.

Obviously I wasn't talking about Evan and Robby leaving Overstock. And Overstock is still using Counterparty for Medici. (This has been reaffirmed publicly very recently.) I'm advising them personally on their technical design.

Can someone explain medici?

Medici is to stocks and shares what bitcoin is to money.

edit: bitcoin with a lower case b, as both use the Bitcoin network.

So it's like asset exchange on Next? Forgive my ignorance

Counterparty has its own asset exchange. Medici brings regulatory compliance, user interfaces, professional services, off-chain stuff, etc., so that users can trade shares of public companies, e.g., (on Counterparty) legally and easily. Counterparty is the primary technological platform; Medici is an application and service. (Think Bitcoin/Coinbase.)

Surely not.? So either OSTK was hiding the truth from them or the devs here were embellishing things. Because The above quotes seems to go at odds with Judd Bagley's latest statement on reddit.

Now I'm wondering if what I assumed was a troll post here: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2z5ilv/overstock_10k_during_2014_we_acquired_a_249/cpg82tn?context=3
by username MediciCTO was actually someone in a senior position at Overstock, whether there was some personal beef and as a result whether we have been looking at a story which is has been significantly embellished by developers here in order to prop up share price. Or whether the burden lies on the cloudy communication from OSTK. I think it is a disaster.  I have learned that this environment is a wild west where anybody can and will tell you anything to try and move the market so it would not surprise me. Much like penny stock markets or the dotcom boom.
some will make a killing while some will lose out. I'm very much in the latter camp now and don't see any way out of the hole unless colored coins has a fatal weakness that pushes OSTK to come back. CEO can be a hot head so if it's a personal beef the two companies had I would rule that one out permanently  Undecided
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June 07, 2015, 09:55:33 PM
Last edit: June 09, 2015, 01:46:55 AM by dexX7
 #11477

MediciCTO

Oh, that one. I assumed it was a troll, too.

Now in retrospective, the post history is pretty telling:

Quote from: MediciCTO
(4 months ago) Medici is evaluating all crypto technologies.

(4 months ago) Medici is still evaluating crypto technologies. We continue discussions with Counterparty, however, we do not plan to limit our platform to a single blockchain, ledger or protocol. The long-term future of crypto securities will undoubtedly include multiple exchanges. Medici will enable trading where ever efficient and qualified exchanges can be created.

(4 months ago) Security, performance, and throughput are some of the considerations when looking at cryptoexchanges. We remain interested in technologies (including the bitcoin blockchain) that might efficiently enable transparent and distributed securities settlement.

(2 months ago) Medici will support multiple cryptotechnologies....counterparty may eventually be one of them, but that is far from certain. Trading platforms have a very specific set of requirements and we will be using the best of the available protocols/technologies.

(2 months ago) The Medici platform is intended to support multiple blockchains/crypto-ledgers. We want to work with the solution which best fits the requirements specific to our use-cases.

It appears to be certain that Counterparty wasn't the only horse in the game, and it seems likely that OpenAssets isn't going to be the only technology used either.

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June 08, 2015, 05:18:42 PM
 #11478

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/38zbap/overstock_announces_cryptosecurity_exchange_and/crzfz38

Medici CTO:

Quote
I think it is a really great sign for Bitcoin that there are multiple choices for this. We obviously have worked closely with Counterparty in the past and have looked closely at number of solutions.
The short answer is we didn't need some of the more complex features for this launch.
Private debt is a relatively simple use case. We are also working on some really complex use cases that will leverage different technologies. Going to be a fun.

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June 08, 2015, 09:05:49 PM
 #11479

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/38zbap/overstock_announces_cryptosecurity_exchange_and/crzfz38

Medici CTO:

Quote
I think it is a really great sign for Bitcoin that there are multiple choices for this. We obviously have worked closely with Counterparty in the past and have looked closely at number of solutions.
The short answer is we didn't need some of the more complex features for this launch.
Private debt is a relatively simple use case. We are also working on some really complex use cases that will leverage different technologies. Going to be a fun.

So it's just that they decided for the simplest no frills solution for the bond but when they tackle with more difficult financial instruments it's very likely they will consider CP?
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June 09, 2015, 07:36:36 AM
 #11480

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/38zbap/overstock_announces_cryptosecurity_exchange_and/crzfz38

Medici CTO:

Quote
I think it is a really great sign for Bitcoin that there are multiple choices for this. We obviously have worked closely with Counterparty in the past and have looked closely at number of solutions.
The short answer is we didn't need some of the more complex features for this launch.
Private debt is a relatively simple use case. We are also working on some really complex use cases that will leverage different technologies. Going to be a fun.

So it's just that they decided for the simplest no frills solution for the bond but when they tackle with more difficult financial instruments it's very likely they will consider CP?

Yeah. It seems they are working on more complex stuff already and that they are considering "different technologies" for it. There are only a couple players in the space and Counterparty is one of them. I guess it was more of a question round peg, round hole, rather than anything else.

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