[ANN][XCP] Counterparty - Pioneering Peer-to-Peer Finance - Official Thread

[GeminiSimba]

You will not find the ideal answer to your question here. I am a business person and investor myself, so I understand you when you talk about counterparty having or not having proprietary code or business plans etc..
The problem with your question is you are asking coders about their business plan so that you can decide on whether to invest...The coders create code out of their own pocket, not with the idea to profit (if they do profit as in the case with Overstock CEO hiring them) that is great but they create innovative technology without the assumption that their ideas will stay only with them. In this open source world of creating innovative code, nothing is "proprietary". Just as we incorporated ethereum into our code, other alt coins or alt chains can certainly build counterparty-like systems on their chains. You cannot do anything to stop that.

With all that said knowing that everything is open source, knowing that this is a protocol (not a business) you want to potentially (and rightfully so) profit from the growth in price and value of XCP. Because of your desire to profit as an investor in XCP you wish to get reasons why you should invest with this Counterparty asset over any other system (like ethereum or paycoin). There can only be one logical answer to your question. That is the potential of highly profitable companies (Actual businesses that have actual products tangible or not) that will be built on top the Counterparty protocol vs being built on Ethereum or Paycoin or any other protocol. How can you know if multi million dollar or multi billion dollar companies will build their business' on Counterparty rather than those competitors? Unfortunately, the truth of it is you don't know.... But you can make a speculative and informed guess that investing into XCP will be worth it even if those other protocols find success. Why do I say that? Because Counterparty is ran on the Bitcoin blockchain rather than it's own blockchain, this means it's automatically going to be more secure than any of the other coins you've mentioned in any of your messages. Bitcoin has over 90% of the market value of all crypto currencies, Bitcoin has first mover advantage and that is HUGE. Counterparty is the only protocol of it's kind that runs on the Bitcoin blockchain...If you can't make an informed investment decision with this information, I don't know what to tell you. But please stop spamming this thread with stuff about hashcoin/paycoin...

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[PhantomPhreak]

You will not find the ideal answer to your question here. I am a business person and investor myself, so I understand you when you talk about counterparty having or not having proprietary code or business plans etc..
The problem with your question is you are asking coders about their business plan so that you can decide on whether to invest...The coders create code out of their own pocket, not with the idea to profit (if they do profit as in the case with Overstock CEO hiring them) that is great but they create innovative technology without the assumption that their ideas will stay only with them. In this open source world of creating innovative code, nothing is "proprietary". Just as we incorporated ethereum into our code, other alt coins or alt chains can certainly build counterparty-like systems on their chains. You cannot do anything to stop that.

Just to be clear, Counterparty does not have any proprietary code or 'business plans'. Counterparty is a non-profit, open-source project through and through.

[getts]

GeminiSimba, thank you for making an attempt to answer my question.  What you have addressed, regarding the value of Counterparty, is precisely the dilemma: Paycoin is allegedly also coded onto the Bitcoin blockchain according to the WSJ article.  If this design is what has made Counterparty so unique and valuable, then this exclusivity may not continue moving forward into the future.

At this point, it seems impossible to know if the open source Counterparty code will be implemented into Paycoin.  But it would certainly make sense to thoroughly investigate and know the  facts before pulling the trigger on any sizable position in either currency.  

I will speculate and say that if I were the one with big bucks like Cantor Fitzgerald backing Paycoin, who does $20 trillion dollars in financial transactions per year, I would certainly want to implement the very best technical approach presently available, which IMHO is Counterparty coding.  

[Anotheranonlol]

GeminiSimba, thank you for making an attempt to answer my question.  What you have addressed, regarding the value of Counterparty, is precisely the dilemma: Paycoin is allegedly also coded onto the Bitcoin blockchain according to the WSJ article.  If this design is what has made Counterparty so unique and valuable, then this exclusivity may not continue moving forward into the future.

At this point, it seems impossible to know if the open source Counterparty code will be implemented into Paycoin.  But it would certainly make sense to thoroughly investigate and know the  facts before pulling the trigger on any sizable position in either currency.  

I will speculate and say that if I were the one with big bucks like Cantor Fitzgerald backing Paycoin, who does $20 trillion dollars in financial transactions per year, I would certainly want to implement the very best technical approach presently available, which IMHO is Counterparty coding.  

If you (as a supposed independent investor) want to discuss paycoin, go to the appropriate thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=857670.1020

(You are also free to discuss on hashtalk, or converse amongst the other many shill grounds but it's common knowledge critical opinions will be censored (you will also face a negative effect in the loss of points), or you will receive threatening cease and desist notices.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2l7myv/
http://dcmagnates.com/gaw-miners-accused-of-ponzi-practices-ceo-garza-defends-company/
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2ng2aa/gaw_makes_threat_to_coin_fire_directly_via_email/

[romerun]

here are reasons why am I hodling my XCP

-protocol over bitcoin blockchain. Although in 2 years we could see sidechain merged into bitcoin and hundreds of alts born in the there, protocol over blockchain is one of a kind. There are pros and cons on both approaches, so I don't think counterparty would be obsolete by sidechain, not to mention counterparty can be moved to sidechain too if sidechain is the clear winner. So far, there are only 2 platforms over bitcoin blockchain, us and mastercoin. Even counterparty does not become the internet of bitcoin 2.0, there's a good chance to become the internet of bitcoin 2.0 over blockchain.

-those hashcoin, paycoin, honestly first time I hear about them, sounds like another alt chains. So they will have to fight in the 2nd league, pts, nxt, stellar, ethereum and whatnot. If nothing goes wrong in the technical side of bitcoin, I do believe bitcoin will be the Internet of money. It doesn't mean all alts die, of course, just be irrelevant, especially those that have no relation to bitcoin. Again, even if bitcoin is not to be what we hope for, counterparty can still adapt.

-I trust movement, I don't trust company/organization. See how shit hit fan on mastercoin? Same could totally happen to ethereum, although so far they seems to have more organized team behind it.

-counterparty team is solid. In the cryptomoney market, putting trust on people seems to work so far, at least I don't get screwed by scammers or incompetent irresponsible people. Oh so paycoin involves with that GAW thing, it's piece of shit then, done.

[yeXIABC]

Having people using the protocol is what will bring the ROI.

[deliciousowl]

Not recognizing true value of XCP is my favorite thing about crypto market psychology.

[okman007]

can't understand so many words.

[PhantomPhreak]

Let's keep the discussion here focused on Counterparty. (PayCoin, in particular, seems to have no real connection to Counterparty or its functionality, and there already exist multiple clones of Counterparty on faster blockchains.)

[Equality 7-2521]

Let's keep the discussion here focused on Counterparty. (PayCoin, in particular, seems to have no real connection to Counterparty or its functionality, and there already exist multiple clones of Counterparty on faster blockchains.)

Here, here. Keep up the great work!

Not recognizing true value of XCP is my favorite thing about crypto market psychology.

I agree. Until Counterparty is traded on a significant exchange the price is meaningless. I have a feeling that as soon as Kraken sort out their takeover of Mt.Gox and their push into the Japanese market they are the type of exchange who will support XCP and other CP asset trading. Before this happens a few things would help facilitate that:

1. Desktop/Server CP client (with GUI).
2. Enterprise security features: Multi-sig, Trezor Support etc. Think Armory for Counterparty.
3. At least a few high trading volume XCP assets (A version of Nubits [possibly one for every major Fiat curency] built on top of Counterparty would achieve this). Swarm really taking off could establish this too.
4. Establishment of the Counterparty Foundation (an official body that can be consulted for help).
5. Counterparty turning 1 year old (soon!).
6. Understanding that the Decentralized Exchange can be a powerful tool for a Centralized Exchange to interface with.
7. Understanding that the Smart Contracts can be a powerful tool for a Centralized Exchange to interface with.

Did I miss anything?

[PhantomPhreak]

Let's keep the discussion here focused on Counterparty. (PayCoin, in particular, seems to have no real connection to Counterparty or its functionality, and there already exist multiple clones of Counterparty on faster blockchains.)

Here, here. Keep up the great work!

Not recognizing true value of XCP is my favorite thing about crypto market psychology.

I agree. Until Counterparty is traded on a significant exchange the price is meaningless. I have a feeling that as soon as Kraken sort out their takeover of Mt.Gox and their push into the Japanese market they are the type of exchange who will support XCP and other CP asset trading. Before this happens a few things would help facilitate that:

1. Desktop/Server CP client (with GUI).
2. Enterprise security features: Multi-sig, Trezor Support etc. Think Armory for Counterparty.
3. At least a few high trading volume XCP assets (A version of Nubits [possibly one for every major Fiat curency] built on top of Counterparty would achieve this). Swarm really taking off could establish this too.
4. Establishment of the Counterparty Foundation (an official body that can be consulted for help).
5. Counterparty turning 1 year old (soon!).
6. Understanding that the Decentralized Exchange can be a powerful tool for a Centralized Exchange to interface with.
7. Understanding that the Smart Contracts can be a powerful tool for a Centralized Exchange to interface with.

Did I miss anything?

That's a good list!

(1) is in the works. re: (2), multisig is almost ready, and Trezor should work today AFAIK. (4), too, is already done! The rest of the list is sort of out of the Foundation's hands.

[Equality 7-2521]

Let's keep the discussion here focused on Counterparty. (PayCoin, in particular, seems to have no real connection to Counterparty or its functionality, and there already exist multiple clones of Counterparty on faster blockchains.)

Here, here. Keep up the great work!

Not recognizing true value of XCP is my favorite thing about crypto market psychology.

I agree. Until Counterparty is traded on a significant exchange the price is meaningless. I have a feeling that as soon as Kraken sort out their takeover of Mt.Gox and their push into the Japanese market they are the type of exchange who will support XCP and other CP asset trading. Before this happens a few things would help facilitate that:

1. Desktop/Server CP client (with GUI).
2. Enterprise security features: Multi-sig, Trezor Support etc. Think Armory for Counterparty.
3. At least a few high trading volume XCP assets (A version of Nubits [possibly one for every major Fiat curency] built on top of Counterparty would achieve this). Swarm really taking off could establish this too.
4. Establishment of the Counterparty Foundation (an official body that can be consulted for help).
5. Counterparty turning 1 year old (soon!).
6. Understanding that the Decentralized Exchange can be a powerful tool for a Centralized Exchange to interface with.
7. Understanding that the Smart Contracts can be a powerful tool for a Centralized Exchange to interface with.

Did I miss anything?

That's a good list!

(1) is in the works. re: (2), multisig is almost ready, and Trezor should work today AFAIK. (4), too, is already done! The rest of the list is sort of out of the Foundation's hands.

Thanks for the response Adam. I knew about most of that progress, but that is just because I keep up to speed on developments. What is interesting is how people new to Counterparty will react in say, 6 months, when they stumble upon this project which has an incredibly powerful infrastructure and ecosystem. Even looking at it know there is a sense of "Crikey, they thought of everything!".

One thing I forgot to mention on that list can be captured by what I addressed to the Blockscan developer in his thread earlier today -

How well are you prepared for a huge amount of traffic directed towards Blockscan.com? I am aware of a number of projects (one in particular, once the free Asset Issuance rolls out) that will use online Counterparty Block Explorers (currently only Blockscan) heavily. Is there any way to pay for increased use of your API? Could you add more functionality to your API?

Are you familiar with services like https://block.io/ and https://chain.com/? Have you thought about positioning yourself to serve the corresponding Counterparty Market? Particularly focusing on "Enterprise" solutions? Perhaps you could be a go to service that the impending Counterparty Foundation recommends?

How many nodes are you connected to at any one time? I.e. are you well protected from a sybil attack?

Essentially, having one or more dedicated Counterparty/Bitcoin API companies may facilitate more innovation and applications even more quickly!

P.S: That is great to hear about the Trezor support. If it actually rolls out in Counterwallet shortly, then it could be the first wallet besides "myTrezor" - https://mytrezor.com/ - to officially support it! Electrum and Armory have yet to roll out their respective official implementations. On that note, Counterwallet is an absolutely awesome web wallet. Is there any chance of marketing it more to regular Bitcoin users?

[yeXIABC]

very good progress

[Equality 7-2521]

I'd like to run the idea of an "offline" Counterparty Database by people. Right now by running a full Counterparty/Bitcoin node one gets their new updated set of Counterparty data every 10 minutes-ish with the release of each new valid Bitcoin Block (assuming there is even any new Counterparty data in the most recent Bitcoin block).

What if an application only needs a daily or weekly or yearly snapshot of all the Counterparty Data? If we had a hash of all Counterparty Data embedded in the Bitcoin Blockchain regularly,  every 100 blocks say. Then an application could download just the most recent snapshot from any source (p2p, usenet, torrents, cloudstorage, ftp etc.). By using any trusted Bitcoin API or Blockexplorer they could check the hash of their downloaded Counterparty Data against the embedded hash.

This allows certain applications to remain disconnected from the internet for a period of time. Better still, the checkpoint hashes could be broadcasted via radiowaves (low cost, low power) to ensure the integrity of the data. In this case an application with a Counterparty snapshot could remain offline forever (if that makes sense for the application in question).

Related discussions:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2mkd0o/we_are_the_founders_of_counterparty_the_free_and/cm53q6b
https://github.com/CounterpartyXCP/counterpartyd/issues/419
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2hc0uy/kryptoradio_successfully_broadcasts_bitcoin_over/

[prophetx]

You have it totally wrong, GeminiSimba.

I am sincerely interested in investing, possibly a lot of money into Counteryparty, as I recenlty have into Bitcoin itself on this pullback.  However, up to this point, I am not finding the answers that I need as an investor to justify putting out all this money, just to have it wiped out because someone else came up with the same coding in a different coin that took off and became the standard for these functionalists.  You can't just bury your head in the sand and believe that just because the Counterparty coders are the brightest and have done the best job, with integrity, doesn't mean that it will ultimately become the most valuable coin.   And yes, it is an alt coin, even though it is coded onto the Bitcoin blockchain.

If you, or anyone else, could address this beyond the "first to market" argument, I am eagerly awaiting a reason to put my money to work.  

what is your question? don't have time to read through all the pages of drivel that is btctalk ...

i take a  realist approach to investing in this space, and also demanding realism and progress from the projects.

you will however notice that  due to the equal access provided by the Internet that there are a lot of fan boys and immature people in these and other forums, who for whatever reason attack people who question their favorite project.  XCP is actually one of my favorite projects but I have no problem calling bullshit when I think I see it.

However, if you don't understand what the difference is between an alt coin and a meta coin, you need to spend some more time reading.... that is my advice to you.

[prophetx]

btw any word on btc38 support yet?

[prophetx]

Why there is so much big dumps always when price go little higher? Overstock buy under 0.01 all coins and now dump when they can not do Medici like they want with 0.0200?  What is situation with Medici, no any news or talk long time?

no...

please try to think logically

[prophetx]

Counterparty over POS coin is being discussed

http://www.peercointalk.org/index.php?topic=3594

oh good. i hope whoever is running this new foundation is talking to them.

more developers to join the ecosystem

[prophetx]

Hi guys, here the new post - Counterparty Community Update, November 19th: AMA, Smart Contracts, From the Web & more: http://counterparty.io/news/counterparty-community-update-november-19/

might also want to do a weekly short post "for beginners" in "tool tips" style, etc.  that we can share out and pique people's interest  -  a lot of new people won't get all this other stuff


maybe the main blog is not the right venue for it, etc.  but there needs to be drip engagement for people with lower attention spans.

Good idea, would r/CounterpartyXCP work for that? It doesn't get a lot of traffic but if we share it across it might.

i'm not a big fan of reddit.  facebook and twitter i think are better for quick tidbits of info

[nakaone]

where do I find information regarding trezor/xcp?